All Blacks v Ireland II
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*Williams suggested there was evidence to back up his theory, though he was a bit sketchy on his numbers and some of his evidence was old.
"I haven't got the exact stats but I know, I said on this programme a few years ago: for every 11 penalties, South Africa got a yellow card; for every 12 penalties, Australia got a yellow card.
"For New Zealand, this was around two years ago, three years ago between the [World] Cups. For every 43 penalties against New Zealand, there was a yellow card.*
Well, Scott, from Chimaus' statistics, this year, for every 16.25 penalties the ABs get a yellow card.
In the same games, for every 50.5 penalties the opposition have been yellow-carded.
We're being ripped off!
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@munstergreen said in Ireland II:
@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
I would hate to have fought alongside an Irishman in one of the world wars, "harden up" is just not an Irish characteristic.
I'll probably be labeled another Irish whinger for this but that's a fairly unnecessary comment to throw about when discussing a rugby match and a few clowns on the internet.
Tens of thousands of Irishmen and women gave their lives to those wars and just as those from England, France, New Zealand or anywhere else, they deserve better than having their "hardness" questioned by some fella sitting on a sofa behind a laptop.
It's just a game man. Ye won this one fair and square so just try to enjoy that for a while if you can.
Yeah that's totally fair, especially given I was born in the 70s! Pent up frustration got the better of me. I don't think NZ could have been more magnanimous after Chicago but the "favour" has not been remotely returned. I've seen hysterical levels of Irish angst about Sam Cane, that the citing process has shown to be a crock of pooh.
Look, I have a number of Irish mates, who have all been much more reasonable, and I apologise for the World War reference which wasn't really on.
I just think it's a crying shame the aftermath of what I thought was a magnificent test match, and I think a few of us are quite jealous of that performance by the Irish backrow, which was magnificent, and should have been match-winning.
I'll settle down no doubt, and I do look forward to the Ire-Aussie game. I would love to see Carbery start and Joe do something different with his back 3, although the loss of Henshaw probably means changes will be minimised.
I don't think I've seen a more exciting emerging NH backrow talent than VDF, he is a keeper.
@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
Yeah that's totally fair, especially given I was born in the 70s! Pent up frustration got the better of me. I don't think NZ could have been more magnanimous after Chicago but the "favour" has not been remotely returned. I've seen hysterical levels of Irish angst about Sam Cane, that the citing process has shown to be a crock of pooh.
Look, I have a number of Irish mates, who have all been much more reasonable, and I apologise for the World War reference which wasn't really on.
I just think it's a crying shame the aftermath of what I thought was a magnificent test match, and I think a few of us are quite jealous of that performance by the Irish backrow, which was magnificent, and should have been match-winning.
I'll settle down no doubt, and I do look forward to the Ire-Aussie game. I would love to see Carbery start and Joe do something different with his back 3, although the loss of Henshaw probably means changes will be minimised.
I don't think I've seen a more exciting emerging NH backrow talent than VDF, he is a keeper.
Fair play and no worries!
I agree with you on the hysteria that's taken over so many of our journalists and internet warriors. It's been embarrassing and has detracted from the excellent effort of our squad and coaches over the 2 games.
I wasn't at this game but I was there for the match in 2013 and I think we were magnanimous in defeat then - most of us left frustrated about kicking poorly to your back 3 at such a crucial time and I don't remember anyone having complaints about the ref.
The Oz game and our selection will be interesting. I often get frustrated at some of Joe's selections, particularly when it comes to our backline, but it's hard to argue with the improvements he's made. Hopefully the more we progress, the less conservative he will become in regard to our attack. I guess the onus is also on our more gifted attackers to work on those less glamorous aspects of their game which Joe values most.
Van der Flier is a cracking player and Leavy behind him looks a great prospect too. With O'Donoghue coming through at 8 we really are blessed in the back row. Peter O'Mahony not making the squad last weekend was a crazy show of strength for us.
I don't think we're too far behind anywhere in the pack or at halfback to be honest. Well as long as Murray stays fit! Where we fall behind is producing backs who can both attack and defend as well as your lads do.
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Did Israel Dagg manage to decapitate any Irish player last weekend?
Rumour has it that he may "be headed" to Leinster next season. Chortle, chortle.
@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
Did Israel Dagg manage to decapitate any Irish player last weekend?
Rumour has it that he may "be headed" to Leinster next season. Chortle, chortle.
FFS
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@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
I would hate to have fought alongside an Irishman in one of the world wars, "harden up" is just not an Irish characteristic.
I'll probably be labeled another Irish whinger for this but that's a fairly unnecessary comment to throw about when discussing a rugby match and a few clowns on the internet.
Tens of thousands of Irishmen and women gave their lives to those wars and just as those from England, France, New Zealand or anywhere else, they deserve better than having their "hardness" questioned by some fella sitting on a sofa behind a laptop.
It's just a game man. Ye won this one fair and square so just try to enjoy that for a while if you can.
@munstergreen welcome to the fern.
I don't think Billys comment was in the right forum but historically not far from the mark where ww2 is concerned .
Anyway you might have noticed that we seem to be a tad sick of the articles from the northern hemisphere about our team This isn't a recent thing , in the 80s and 90s we were accused of being professional .....expect our players tended to head north in the off season to get paid for playing rugby which made the whole thing a bit odd, then there was a dozen or so years of bullshit about poaching from the pacific islands which has died off a fair bit lately , then its the referees are afraid to penalize us, we didn't actually win the 2011 rwc the ref gifted it to us which overlooks the debacle in 2007. This years whinge seems to be about thuggery , you'll understand if we're a bit over it already especially in light of the bullshit flowing from the usual suspects about the eye gouge that didn't stop even after the supposed victim said didn't happen.
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@mariner4life as a parent when my son rides his bike I worry he might fall off or get hit by a vehicle, similarly if he gets on a bus it might crash, or cross the road a speeding car might hit him....
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@mariner4life as a parent when my son rides his bike I worry he might fall off or get hit by a vehicle, similarly if he gets on a bus it might crash, or cross the road a speeding car might hit him....
@taniwharugby right now my only worry is that he grows up to be as whiney, and as sore a loser as an Irishman
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Checked Foxsports 500 (foxsports news) at lunchtime and pushed the red button for "active" and there is a report on the citings headline "Fekitoa cops ban" or similarly innocuous.
Ok. So I open even though I already knew the deal.
They must have reprinted the story directly from some Irish tinfoil hat wearer's facebook feed.
Apparently "World rugby bosses have admitted that Fekitoa should not have been on the field to score the winning try". This "admission" is embarrassing, All Black thuggery, 11 citings against ABs , Sam Cane, headshots ...
Freaking a grade trolling and whinging wrapped into one.
Also, re Matt Williams (distinctly unsuccessful as a coach IIRC): was the guy who tried to illustrate that NZ did not get penalised in the 2007 RWC final by showing an incident we got penalised for.
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@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
What the fuck? even England in the Woodward era wasn't as embarrassing as this . Thats positively BODesque.
[Rory Best pictured] -
@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
What the fuck? even England in the Woodward era wasn't as embarrassing as this . Thats positively BODesque.
[Rory Best pictured]@jegga said in Ireland II:
@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
It's a requote from something Best said in response to a question directly at the post-game interview. It made sense at the time. The BelTel decided to annex it and make it into a story. He wasn't whinging.
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@jegga said in Ireland II:
@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
It's a requote from something Best said in response to a question directly at the post-game interview. It made sense at the time. The BelTel decided to annex it and make it into a story. He wasn't whinging.
@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
@jegga said in Ireland II:
@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
What the fuck? even England in the Woodward era wasn't as embarrassing as this . Thats positively BODesque.
[Rory Best pictured]It's a requite from something Best said in response to a question directly at the post-game interview. It made sense at the time. The BelTel decided to annex it and make it into a story.
Mate , it's pathetic . Even at the time it doesn't make sense , especially about whining at the ref to go upstairs when its not your place to do that anyway.
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The try where they questioned the forward pass, seemed like it was nowhere near a forward pass to me.
It actually looks like fekitoa had taken it behind tho the passer.
There wasn't another angle of it shown was there?
Funnily enough, it was in the same corner for crotty's try in 2013 where the Irish got there knickers in a twist over a legal pass.
Maybe it's just a bad camera angle down that side?
@da_grubster said in Ireland II:
The try where they questioned the forward pass, seemed like it was nowhere near a forward pass to me.
It actually looks like fekitoa had taken it behind tho the passer.
There wasn't another angle of it shown was there?
Funnily enough, it was in the same corner for crotty's try in 2013 where the Irish got there knickers in a twist over a legal pass.
Maybe it's just a bad camera angle down that side?
I think in the NH , they are not used to seeing the flat passes as much as we do in our game ,
So our eyes are trained differently to what is the norm
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@da_grubster said in Ireland II:
The try where they questioned the forward pass, seemed like it was nowhere near a forward pass to me.
It actually looks like fekitoa had taken it behind tho the passer.
There wasn't another angle of it shown was there?
Funnily enough, it was in the same corner for crotty's try in 2013 where the Irish got there knickers in a twist over a legal pass.
Maybe it's just a bad camera angle down that side?
I think in the NH , they are not used to seeing the flat passes as much as we do in our game ,
So our eyes are trained differently to what is the norm
@kiwiinmelb said in Ireland II:
@da_grubster said in Ireland II:
The try where they questioned the forward pass, seemed like it was nowhere near a forward pass to me.
It actually looks like fekitoa had taken it behind tho the passer.
There wasn't another angle of it shown was there?
Funnily enough, it was in the same corner for crotty's try in 2013 where the Irish got there knickers in a twist over a legal pass.
Maybe it's just a bad camera angle down that side?
I think in the NH , they are not used to seeing the flat passes as much as we do in our game ,
So our eyes are trained differently to what is the norm
I dunno, all of those people watching us play the French at the Arms Park in 2007 didn't seem to worry about it too much
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@mariner4life as a parent when my son rides his bike I worry he might fall off or get hit by a vehicle, similarly if he gets on a bus it might crash, or cross the road a speeding car might hit him....
@taniwharugby said in Ireland II:
@mariner4life as a parent when my son rides his bike I worry he might fall off or get hit by a vehicle, similarly if he gets on a bus it might crash, or cross the road a speeding car might hit him....
In summary, he couldve doid?
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It's all nonsense. Best was trying it on because this bloody wendyball behaviour has crept into the game, yes particularly in the north, and none of the world rugby fuckwit administrators have had the sense or inclination to stamp it out.
So busy are they hand wringing and pandering to fucken sponsors and issuing paper thin edicts about contesting in the air and head high tackles that they've ignored a blight on the a unique feature of the game, namely the refs decision stands and is to be respected.
Never once have we had a clampdown on badgering referees. When was the last march of 10 yards that we all grew up with? When did they arm and publicly encourage the refs with the means to tell moaning captains to piss off?
Rugby was known as a game where what the ref said stood. Now every captain, including Read spend disproportionate time trying to influence a ref. It's fucking irritating. When taken to stupid degrees like Best did it's a blight, and it needn't be.
It gets more like the disgrace that is soccer every year, yet no leaders of the game seem to give a fuck - more interested in wasting resources on incidents which most sane people can see are accidents.
Fucken gives me the shits how much time is wasted needlessly on whining to refs when 2 months of marching 10 yards would eradicate it completely....AGAIN!!
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It's all nonsense. Best was trying it on because this bloody wendyball behaviour has crept into the game, yes particularly in the north, and none of the world rugby fuckwit administrators have had the sense or inclination to stamp it out.
So busy are they hand wringing and pandering to fucken sponsors and issuing paper thin edicts about contesting in the air and head high tackles that they've ignored a blight on the a unique feature of the game, namely the refs decision stands and is to be respected.
Never once have we had a clampdown on badgering referees. When was the last march of 10 yards that we all grew up with? When did they arm and publicly encourage the refs with the means to tell moaning captains to piss off?
Rugby was known as a game where what the ref said stood. Now every captain, including Read spend disproportionate time trying to influence a ref. It's fucking irritating. When taken to stupid degrees like Best did it's a blight, and it needn't be.
It gets more like the disgrace that is soccer every year, yet no leaders of the game seem to give a fuck - more interested in wasting resources on incidents which most sane people can see are accidents.
Fucken gives me the shits how much time is wasted needlessly on whining to refs when 2 months of marching 10 yards would eradicate it completely....AGAIN!!
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@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
Pretty funny that the article goes on to explain they had issues with Peyper other than AB physicality...like when Sexton held up Barret. And stops there, no mention of Sexton's malicious swinging arm.
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I'm thinking they'll probably reach peak whine when they drag out BOD for a comment about all black thuggery, he made a cock of himself over the Coleman incident and he's probably spent the better part of the day trying to pick the right hashtag.
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Thoughts on the citings
Cane : Justice is done accidental collision no fault plain to see for all should never have been cited.
Fekitoa : Bad tackle but no malice yellow on the field and week sit down is the right result.
Sexton : Not cited but tackle was just as bad as Fekitoa's Not sure about malice so should have been penalty try, yellow card and a week sit down. This is the only thing the citing commission missed in my view.
There were no straight red tackles on Saturday, there were no eye gouges no knees to the head of prone players, no punches no spare tackles and no other filth. There were 2 high tackles that happened in the heat of the game with no real malice, they weren't swinging arms they were just shit tackles. I only want to see Yellows for those and if the offender does it again then yes its a red.
As for this stat about number of penalties per yellow card. Context is everything. I see that stat and I extrapolate we are the cleanest team in international rugby as cards are usually given for foul play or professional fouls. That tells me the majority of our penalties were probably not either of those.
But without knowing what each penalty was given for and where it was given and the proximity to other penalties that stat means nothing. You can get penalised for offside, sealing off, collapsing a ruck, interfering with a jumper in the line out, Not realeasing the ball, not releasing the tackler not staying on your feet, playing the ball on the ground. intentionally knocking on the ball the list is fucking epic, I wont go on.
None of these things are yellow card offenses without context.
My last thoughts in this thread.
Did Jaco have a good game? Mixed, he missed a few things both ways his ruck management was a bit messy and he probably let the chat get a bit out of hand. Did it affect the result. Not that I saw.
