Americas Cup
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@dogmeat said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble It wasn't a lack of wind it was the wind direction. It brought North Head into play as a disturbing factor and meant the wind was coming from two different directions.
Would have turned the race into a lottery. Which LR would probably have gone for. It is now clear that TNZ have a slightly faster boat. Fickle winds evens it up a bit. Spithill was trying to blame mind games with the race committee.
have to say, as a fan but not a sailor...thats just sounds like a good race. both teams still have to handle the same conditions
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@dogmeat said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble It wasn't a lack of wind it was the wind direction. It brought North Head into play as a disturbing factor and meant the wind was coming from two different directions.
Would have turned the race into a lottery. Which LR would probably have gone for. It is now clear that TNZ have a slightly faster boat. Fickle winds evens it up a bit. Spithill was trying to blame mind games with the race committee.
have to say, as a fan but not a sailor...thats just sounds like a good race. both teams still have to handle the same conditions
Not really, the conditions can vary over the course too much, which is the problem. It can become pure luck. Yes sailors need to read shifts, but it can be very unfair if things change too much and you just happen to be in a bad spot. Also massively different if you are leading than trailing and how much by (match racing, not fleet).
The idea is to have the best sailors / boat decide the winner, not the weather.
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@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@dogmeat said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble It wasn't a lack of wind it was the wind direction. It brought North Head into play as a disturbing factor and meant the wind was coming from two different directions.
Would have turned the race into a lottery. Which LR would probably have gone for. It is now clear that TNZ have a slightly faster boat. Fickle winds evens it up a bit. Spithill was trying to blame mind games with the race committee.
have to say, as a fan but not a sailor...thats just sounds like a good race. both teams still have to handle the same conditions
Not really, the conditions can vary over the course too much, which is the problem. It can become pure luck. Yes sailors need to read shifts, but it can be very unfair if things change too much and you just happen to be in a bad spot. Also massively different if you are leading than trailing and how much by (match racing, not fleet).
The idea is to have the best sailors / boat decide the winner, not the weather.
@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
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@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
Do you enjoy dice games?
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@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
Do you enjoy dice games?
@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
Do you enjoy dice games?
yes, famously people become addicted to games of chance
surely its not quite a straight gamble, as you say they do have some ability to look for winds shifts but also the two boats are famously close in performance and have tended to be at the same end of the course at similar times so so dealing with similar conditions
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Digression - Every day the Herald has an article - what the world is saying about the America's Cup. Does everyone else think they should stump up for an Italian speaker to tell them what is written in the Italian newspapers instead of obviously just mangling it with Google Translate?
Embarrassing. Especially as usually the Italian media are complaining about the arrogance and bias of the Herald!
@dogmeat said in Americas Cup:
Digression - Every day the Herald has an article - what the world is saying about the America's Cup. Does everyone else think they should stump up for an Italian speaker to tell them what is written in the Italian newspapers instead of obviously just mangling it with Google Translate?
Embarrassing. Especially as usually the Italian media are complaining about the arrogance and bias of the Herald!
A real Italian speaker would require a "premium" subscription to the Herald....oh wait.
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@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
Do you enjoy dice games?
@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
Do you enjoy dice games?
RACIST!!!!
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@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
Do you enjoy dice games?
yes, famously people become addicted to games of chance
surely its not quite a straight gamble, as you say they do have some ability to look for winds shifts but also the two boats are famously close in performance and have tended to be at the same end of the course at similar times so so dealing with similar conditions
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
yes, famously people become addicted to games of chance
There are words for those people. Not usually "highly trained sportspeople".
In sports / contests I prefer the skill and aptitude of the contestants to, well, contest.
Not a fluke - which is a sailing term for irregularity of the wind and also the more common meaning of something happening by chance. -
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
yes, famously people become addicted to games of chance
There are words for those people. Not usually "highly trained sportspeople".
In sports / contests I prefer the skill and aptitude of the contestants to, well, contest.
Not a fluke - which is a sailing term for irregularity of the wind and also the more common meaning of something happening by chance. -
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
yes, famously people become addicted to games of chance
There are words for those people. Not usually "highly trained sportspeople".
In sports / contests I prefer the skill and aptitude of the contestants to, well, contest.
Not a fluke - which is a sailing term for irregularity of the wind and also the more common meaning of something happening by chance.@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
yes, famously people become addicted to games of chance
There are words for those people. Not usually "highly trained sportspeople".
In sports / contests I prefer the skill and aptitude of the contestants to, well, contest.
Not a fluke - which is a sailing term for irregularity of the wind and also the more common meaning of something happening by chance.I get your point, but you wording is unfortunate seeing as problem gambling is an enormous problem among professional sportspeople
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@snowy im not saying the sailors should like it, just the spectators might
and i consider handling the unknown as a great show of skill
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy im not saying the sailors should like it, just the spectators might
I was making a broad assumption that the people that are into sailing, whether watching it, or competing, want it to be fair, not games of chance. Race directors seem to have a similar view.
Maybe their are millions out there who are watching lotto without actually having a ticket. It's not a really interesting interesting spectator sport without some contest of abilities from the balls. Oooh, will it be 32 doesn't grab me unless 32 has put in some effort.
Do you see the point? It isn't good from anyone's perspective when things are TOO skewed. As an extreme, a 180deg wind change just destroys a contest for obvious reasons.
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@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy im not saying the sailors should like it, just the spectators might
I was making a broad assumption that the people that are into sailing, whether watching it, or competing, want it to be fair, not games of chance. Race directors seem to have a similar view.
Maybe their are millions out there who are watching lotto without actually having a ticket. It's not a really interesting interesting spectator sport without some contest of abilities from the balls. Oooh, will it be 32 doesn't grab me unless 32 has put in some effort.
Do you see the point? It isn't good from anyone's perspective when things are TOO skewed. As an extreme, a 180deg wind change just destroys a contest for obvious reasons.
@snowy surely you realise that there is a huge percent of people currently watching that have never been in a sailboat and will forget about the whole thing until the next time around
i saw a HUGE bump in posts/comments/articles after the race where we both dropped off the foils...people loved it, loved seeing how the teams dealt with an issue they could actually see
i understand what your saying but you must realise there are lots of different people that enjoy different aspects
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looks a bit light out there althought you can see why they thought course A was a good choice
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
looks a bit light out there althought you can see why they thought course A was a good choice
Been in meetings all day so not seen much of chat or reports but doubt there will be racing today. Winds likely to drop even further
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@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
yes, famously people become addicted to games of chance
There are words for those people. Not usually "highly trained sportspeople".
In sports / contests I prefer the skill and aptitude of the contestants to, well, contest.
Not a fluke - which is a sailing term for irregularity of the wind and also the more common meaning of something happening by chance.I get your point, but you wording is unfortunate seeing as problem gambling is an enormous problem among professional sportspeople
@mariner4life said in Americas Cup:
@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
yes, famously people become addicted to games of chance
There are words for those people. Not usually "highly trained sportspeople".
In sports / contests I prefer the skill and aptitude of the contestants to, well, contest.
Not a fluke - which is a sailing term for irregularity of the wind and also the more common meaning of something happening by chance.I get your point, but you wording is unfortunate seeing as problem gambling is an enormous problem among professional sportspeople
Yes it is a problem, and I am aware of it. I have a family member that tries to help people with problem gambling.
Completely irrelevant to sailing and games of chance. Gambling has all levels and skills to predict an outcome. I don't want this sailing to become a roll of the dice because it removes the skill of the sailors, not enhances it. A "what might happen next" because the weather has changed might appeal to some, like "can he roll a 2" but not for me.
The point remains though these guys want to compete on a fair course.
Remember they aren't allowed the spotter boats scattered around the course anymore to tell them what is happening. They are looking, guessing, albeit educated, and hoping. I think they get the tech info from the marks and what is on the boat obviously but that is it.
Aiming sports solely at fans who want a random result really doesn't enhance things for those with more than a passing interest.
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@snowy surely you realise that there is a huge percent of people currently watching that have never been in a sailboat and will forget about the whole thing until the next time around
i saw a HUGE bump in posts/comments/articles after the race where we both dropped off the foils...people loved it, loved seeing how the teams dealt with an issue they could actually see
i understand what your saying but you must realise there are lots of different people that enjoy different aspects
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy surely you realise that there is a huge percent of people currently watching that have never been in a sailboat and will forget about the whole thing until the next time around
Yes, of course.
Should we change the laws of rugby for those that only watch the RWC because they don't understand the game?
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@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy surely you realise that there is a huge percent of people currently watching that have never been in a sailboat and will forget about the whole thing until the next time around
Yes, of course.
Should we change the laws of rugby for those that only watch the RWC because they don't understand the game?
@snowy rules get changed all time to make it more enjoyable to watch, amongst other things and attracting more/new fan is often a big focus of lots of sports, and the rules for the AC get reviewed changes every time
you seem to have bristled to my reply, i havent actually said they should change the rules, i just pointed out the way you explained it actually made it sounds really interesting/challenging
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@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy surely you realise that there is a huge percent of people currently watching that have never been in a sailboat and will forget about the whole thing until the next time around
Yes, of course.
Should we change the laws of rugby for those that only watch the RWC because they don't understand the game?
@snowy please burn that post with fire before 2021 hears you and we get the next brainless announcement from world rugby!
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@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
Do you enjoy dice games?
@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
Do you enjoy dice games?
I'm with @Kiwiwomble here. Why is having to take the conditions and course into account any different that say golf? Or F1 for that matter?
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@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
Do you enjoy dice games?
I'm with @Kiwiwomble here. Why is having to take the conditions and course into account any different that say golf? Or F1 for that matter?
@jc said in Americas Cup:
@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
Do you enjoy dice games?
I'm with @Kiwiwomble here. Why is having to take the conditions and course into account any different that say golf? Or F1 for that matter?
Like cricket in the rain then? Would be an interesting watch as long as ya had an umbrella
Btw, I obviously haven't read all those recent posts above. Had a quick skim and not exactly sure what was/is going on
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@jc said in Americas Cup:
@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@snowy once again, as a spectator...thats sounds really interesting to watch, interesting weather forcing mistakes and the sailors having to handle different things, going up and down at full speed with one leg indistinguishable from another is the boring stuff people have been talking about
Do you enjoy dice games?
I'm with @Kiwiwomble here. Why is having to take the conditions and course into account any different that say golf? Or F1 for that matter?
Like cricket in the rain then? Would be an interesting watch as long as ya had an umbrella
Btw, I obviously haven't read all those recent posts above. Had a quick skim and not exactly sure what was/is going on
