Americas Cup
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@kiwiwomble in theory a good idea to make money... But the deed of gift doesn't appear to allow future challenges to be bound. We'd be relying on the British to play fair, and in America's cup that's high risk
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@nzzp does the DoG specifically preclude additional agreements? a separate contract securing the CoR status to the loosing team from the Deed challenge?
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@nzzp does the DoG specifically preclude additional agreements? a separate contract securing the CoR status to the loosing team from the Deed challenge?
Nope, but you'd be left trying to enforce a separate agreement. It wouldn't(and couldn't) bind the holder of the cup as far as I know.
Anyway, have a read. It's not long.
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@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@nzzp does the DoG specifically preclude additional agreements? a separate contract securing the CoR status to the loosing team from the Deed challenge?
Nope, but you'd be left trying to enforce a separate agreement. It wouldn't(and couldn't) bind the holder of the cup as far as I know.
Anyway, have a read. It's not long.
@nzzp yeah, read that before (as best as i could), didn;t think it it specifically precluded a separate contract
I would have thought a contract if written well enough could and would be binding
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@nzzp yeah, read that before (as best as i could), didn;t think it it specifically precluded a separate contract
I would have thought a contract if written well enough could and would be binding
@kiwiwomble I'm not a lawyer, but I think you could sue and win, but you wouldn't get the cup. Just damages. The deed of gift trumps outside contracts I think
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@nzzp yeah, read that before (as best as i could), didn;t think it it specifically precluded a separate contract
I would have thought a contract if written well enough could and would be binding
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
I would have thought a contract if written well enough could and would be binding
It should be, and you would be dealing with modern law and wording, but Ineos have a billionaire backer...
I assume that if they are the holders, and decided to disregard any contracts / agreements that were made, jurisdiction will come into it. A hearing could be held in British courts, even if the laws were drawn up in NZ? Not sure about that. The point is I wouldn't trust it as a binding document. It's the AC.
We would need to get some serious cash (I reckon it would draw that as an event too) to take the risk of losing. I also think that we would be a better than 50/50 chance of winning too.
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@kiwiwomble I'm not a lawyer, but I think you could sue and win, but you wouldn't get the cup. Just damages. The deed of gift trumps outside contracts I think
@nzzp said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble I'm not a lawyer, but I think you could sue and win, but you wouldn't get the cup. Just damages. The deed of gift trumps outside contracts I think
This. History would suggest that the holder gets to keep it.
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@kiwiwomble I'm not a lawyer, but I think you could sue and win, but you wouldn't get the cup. Just damages. The deed of gift trumps outside contracts I think
@nzzp you can get court orders to enforce a contract rather than just suing for damages
I never meant to say you could sue for the cup, just where its held, all the actual events will have their own contracts. ETNZ/RNZYS dont own the waterfront in auckland etc so separate agreements would be in place for use of that land etc
@Snowy yeah, you would imagine they would have to make any agreement in the UK to be sure
Its going to be whatever it is, i just hope we dont pass up an opportunity to make some money and then loose it again in the next round because we couldn't keep hold of the best people like last time
add to this to potential to get more people excited about it by an event quickly after the last one and in europe
If there are change to do that and then still have the next "full" one in auckland then thats very tempting
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@nzzp you can get court orders to enforce a contract rather than just suing for damages
I never meant to say you could sue for the cup, just where its held, all the actual events will have their own contracts. ETNZ/RNZYS dont own the waterfront in auckland etc so separate agreements would be in place for use of that land etc
@Snowy yeah, you would imagine they would have to make any agreement in the UK to be sure
Its going to be whatever it is, i just hope we dont pass up an opportunity to make some money and then loose it again in the next round because we couldn't keep hold of the best people like last time
add to this to potential to get more people excited about it by an event quickly after the last one and in europe
If there are change to do that and then still have the next "full" one in auckland then thats very tempting
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
make some money and then loose it again in the next round because we couldn't keep hold of the best people like last time
Yes.
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
add to this to potential to get more people excited about it by an event quickly after the last one and in europe
Yes.
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
If there are change to do that and then still have the next "full" one in auckland then thats very tempting
There is a chance for sure, but it is the usual risk / reward thing. How much do we gain? Does it keep all of our best people, etc, etc.
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*"He claimed a recent chat he had with Team New Zealand boss Grant Dalton indicated there were “a lot of options” but defending the Cup in Britain wasn’t the one Dalton favoured.
“The most likely outcome is a post-Covid America's Cup organised quickly in November 2022, here in Auckland, with the present teams, so that they don't get taken apart,” Trouble, who is still in New Zealand, told Tip & Shaft."*
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From the "AC is more dangerous than it looks" file
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i have to say im coming around to the next one being overseas
this one was barely a competition with so few challengers. If we're going to persist with the "F1 of yachting" approach with multi generations of design that will be scrapped directly after, ie super expensive then we need to attract more interest by making it easier to get too
either that or move to an "off the shelf" boat design, bring it back to NZ every second or third round assuming we win
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@gt12 said in Americas Cup:
@tim said in Americas Cup:
Fuck those guys.
Yep.
This:
Dickson said he thought Team New Zealand would be wise to think about their brand reputation if they took the defence offshore."Team New Zealand has built a very strong and valuable brand globally, largely on being New Zealanders. For them to take it somewhere else would go against the grain."
I would actually support another team with Kiwi's in it if they did that.
The other thing was that the investment was supposed to be profitable over 2 events hosting, (assuming they won of course) so TNZ are effectively stealing tax payers and rate payers money. Very uncool.
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i have to say im coming around to the next one being overseas
this one was barely a competition with so few challengers. If we're going to persist with the "F1 of yachting" approach with multi generations of design that will be scrapped directly after, ie super expensive then we need to attract more interest by making it easier to get too
either that or move to an "off the shelf" boat design, bring it back to NZ every second or third round assuming we win
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@kiwiwomble Don't be a cuck.
@tim fair enough, i should add, very happy for it to stay in NZ if they can come up with a way to get more teams down here
@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@gt12 said in Americas Cup:
@tim said in Americas Cup:
Fuck those guys.
The other thing was that the investment was supposed to be profitable over 2 events hosting, (assuming they won of course) so TNZ are effectively stealing tax payers and rate payers money. Very uncool.
I hadn't heard that last bit, that does change things quite a bit
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@tim fair enough, i should add, very happy for it to stay in NZ if they can come up with a way to get more teams down here
@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@gt12 said in Americas Cup:
@tim said in Americas Cup:
Fuck those guys.
The other thing was that the investment was supposed to be profitable over 2 events hosting, (assuming they won of course) so TNZ are effectively stealing tax payers and rate payers money. Very uncool.
I hadn't heard that last bit, that does change things quite a bit
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@tim fair enough, i should add, very happy for it to stay in NZ if they can come up with a way to get more teams down here
I think that they would now. The proof of concept has been done and they want to stick with it in basic design. Didn't Bertarelli want to buy our first boat?
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@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@tim fair enough, i should add, very happy for it to stay in NZ if they can come up with a way to get more teams down here
I think that they would now. The proof of concept has been done and they want to stick with it in basic design. Didn't Bertarelli want to buy our first boat?
@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@tim fair enough, i should add, very happy for it to stay in NZ if they can come up with a way to get more teams down here
I think that they would now. The proof of concept has been done and they want to stick with it in basic design. Didn't Bertarelli want to buy our first boat?
Yup. Not going to be able to do it Ernesto
Not for any money
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@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@tim fair enough, i should add, very happy for it to stay in NZ if they can come up with a way to get more teams down here
I think that they would now. The proof of concept has been done and they want to stick with it in basic design. Didn't Bertarelli want to buy our first boat?
@snowy maybe, i wonder how much they can change the boats without pretty much paying for a new one, it was pretty clear the tw boats in the final were daylight ahead of the the others and there was a bit between them too...so what chance does anyone buying one of the old ones have?
