Americas Cup
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Ineos just aren’t nimble enough in the start box to force the issue. Funny because I thought that would be the biggest worry for anyone sailing against them as Ainslie is a very good starting tactician.
It’s like the boat can’t manoeuvre without a lot of speed on.@Crucial said in Americas Cup:
Funny because I thought that would be the biggest worry for anyone sailing against them as Ainslie is a very good starting tactician.
I'm not convinced that he is. Sure you are correct that he has a pig of a boat to deal with during start maneuvers, and he is a superb sailor, one of the best ever, but pretty much everything he has won has been fleet racing. So, very little dial up or pre race tactical experience. He has one world match racing championship (2010) and not much else in one on one stuff. His inexperience showed the other day with the attempted hook.
Burling is a bit the same but he did win junior titles in match racing and has adapted well.Spithill has much more experience. Junior match titles, a 2nd and a 1st in world match race championships and then AC since Young Australia in 2000.
In the WMRC since 2011, Phil Robertson (a Kiwi) has 8th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, then won all of the last 3.
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I'm watching the live press conference. Looks like racing could start again on Sat.
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@Crucial said in Americas Cup:
Funny because I thought that would be the biggest worry for anyone sailing against them as Ainslie is a very good starting tactician.
I'm not convinced that he is. Sure you are correct that he has a pig of a boat to deal with during start maneuvers, and he is a superb sailor, one of the best ever, but pretty much everything he has won has been fleet racing. So, very little dial up or pre race tactical experience. He has one world match racing championship (2010) and not much else in one on one stuff. His inexperience showed the other day with the attempted hook.
Burling is a bit the same but he did win junior titles in match racing and has adapted well.Spithill has much more experience. Junior match titles, a 2nd and a 1st in world match race championships and then AC since Young Australia in 2000.
In the WMRC since 2011, Phil Robertson (a Kiwi) has 8th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, then won all of the last 3.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@WillieTheWaiter I don't think they are, if you look at the lines, they are diverging from the "535m" line
these boats don't have spinnakers or the like like the old ones so theyre always going to have to go side to side to some extent to catch the wind
But the Italians seem to be able to "point higher" as Lester puts it. The ability to take a more direct course to the mark while maintaining speed is an obvious advantage
@canefan said in Americas Cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@WillieTheWaiter I don't think they are, if you look at the lines, they are diverging from the "535m" line
these boats don't have spinnakers or the like like the old ones so theyre always going to have to go side to side to some extent to catch the wind
But the Italians seem to be able to "point higher" as Lester puts it. The ability to take a more direct course to the mark while maintaining speed is an obvious advantage
Both of those are true although not really doing it to catch the wind as such - semantics. Nobody will sail directly downwind as the fastest that they can go is the wind speed. They are effectively broad reaching (even though they look close hauled) to generate boatspeed and therefor apparent wind which moves the wind direction forward, hence looking close hauled - if that makes sense.
I'm guessing, but Luna Rosa are probably achieving better VMG (pointing higher with boat speed) with rigging, sail design and trimming than anything in the water (foils / rudder).
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@Snowy I guess I was going by the pre Xmas outings where he looked very adept in that department. Thanks for the backgrounds
@Crucial said in Americas Cup:
@Snowy I guess I was going by the pre Xmas outings where he looked very adept in that department. Thanks for the backgrounds
That the comp where they were O from 6?
Just kidding, their boat wasn't up to speed they weren't going to win much even if they did win the start at that stage.
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@canefan said in Americas Cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@WillieTheWaiter I don't think they are, if you look at the lines, they are diverging from the "535m" line
these boats don't have spinnakers or the like like the old ones so theyre always going to have to go side to side to some extent to catch the wind
But the Italians seem to be able to "point higher" as Lester puts it. The ability to take a more direct course to the mark while maintaining speed is an obvious advantage
Both of those are true although not really doing it to catch the wind as such - semantics. Nobody will sail directly downwind as the fastest that they can go is the wind speed. They are effectively broad reaching (even though they look close hauled) to generate boatspeed and therefor apparent wind which moves the wind direction forward, hence looking close hauled - if that makes sense.
I'm guessing, but Luna Rosa are probably achieving better VMG (pointing higher with boat speed) with rigging, sail design and trimming than anything in the water (foils / rudder).
@Snowy said in Americas Cup:
@canefan said in Americas Cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@WillieTheWaiter I don't think they are, if you look at the lines, they are diverging from the "535m" line
these boats don't have spinnakers or the like like the old ones so theyre always going to have to go side to side to some extent to catch the wind
But the Italians seem to be able to "point higher" as Lester puts it. The ability to take a more direct course to the mark while maintaining speed is an obvious advantage
Both of those are true although not really doing it to catch the wind as such - semantics. Nobody will sail directly downwind as the fastest that they can go is the wind speed. They are effectively broad reaching (even though they look close hauled) to generate boatspeed and therefor apparent wind which moves the wind direction forward, hence looking close hauled - if that makes sense.
I'm guessing, but Luna Rosa are probably achieving better VMG (pointing higher with boat speed) with rigging, sail design and trimming than anything in the water (foils / rudder).
Lester was going on about LRs mainsail, said it looked much deeper than Ineos one so more air
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@Snowy said in Americas Cup:
@canefan said in Americas Cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@WillieTheWaiter I don't think they are, if you look at the lines, they are diverging from the "535m" line
these boats don't have spinnakers or the like like the old ones so theyre always going to have to go side to side to some extent to catch the wind
But the Italians seem to be able to "point higher" as Lester puts it. The ability to take a more direct course to the mark while maintaining speed is an obvious advantage
Both of those are true although not really doing it to catch the wind as such - semantics. Nobody will sail directly downwind as the fastest that they can go is the wind speed. They are effectively broad reaching (even though they look close hauled) to generate boatspeed and therefor apparent wind which moves the wind direction forward, hence looking close hauled - if that makes sense.
I'm guessing, but Luna Rosa are probably achieving better VMG (pointing higher with boat speed) with rigging, sail design and trimming than anything in the water (foils / rudder).
Lester was going on about LRs mainsail, said it looked much deeper than Ineos one so more air
@canefan said in Americas Cup:
Lester was going on about LRs mainsail, said it looked much deeper than Ineos one so more air
That would make sense, a fuller sail would enable them to run more downwind (i.e point higher without sacrificing boatspeed).
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This whole regatta has been like watching the All Blacks play Namibia every week. Wouldn’t be surprised if the finals are the same, one team just dominates.
@dolamite yep, Prada just put time on them leg after leg, often boat speeds has INeos quicker, but the VMG isnt, but they just not in it.
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@machpants I Missed the start but heard INeos were penalised again, was that pre-start, again?
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Jimmy just owned Ainsley at the pre-start again, but a better start for him for a change
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So a pretty much even start, and Ineos get on the board!
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These boats seem a little bit too evenly matched and run at full all the time. Seems that the start and first cross dictate the winner unless someone fucks up.
A bit like F1 processions. Great engineering and amazing vehicles and handling but the racing itself is often tedious -
These boats seem a little bit too evenly matched and run at full all the time. Seems that the start and first cross dictate the winner unless someone fucks up.
A bit like F1 processions. Great engineering and amazing vehicles and handling but the racing itself is often tedious@crucial said in Americas Cup:
These boats seem a little bit too evenly matched and run at full all the time. Seems that the start and first cross dictate the winner unless someone fucks up.
A bit like F1 processions. Great engineering and amazing vehicles and handling but the racing itself is often tediousyeah, the warm up tournaments mean theyre making fewer and fewer mistakes and mistakes seem to be the only way to overtake
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These boats seem a little bit too evenly matched and run at full all the time. Seems that the start and first cross dictate the winner unless someone fucks up.
A bit like F1 processions. Great engineering and amazing vehicles and handling but the racing itself is often tedious@crucial said in Americas Cup:
These boats seem a little bit too evenly matched and run at full all the time. Seems that the start and first cross dictate the winner unless someone fucks up.
A bit like F1 processions. Great engineering and amazing vehicles and handling but the racing itself is often tediousAs someone else suggested, perhaps a larger course would have made a difference. I remember in the Fremantle AC the course was more triangular, so legs faced at different wind orientations. This up and down stuff on a narrow course doesn't leave much room for manouvre. It's not like these boats can't cover more ground anyway, they seem underutilised on the current course. I suppose for TV they want short races
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LR just disproving the idea of "win the start = win the race"
Sir ben doesn't seem to have made any mistakes...but has lost like 500m in a leg and a half
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LR just disproving the idea of "win the start = win the race"
Sir ben doesn't seem to have made any mistakes...but has lost like 500m in a leg and a half
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
LR just disproving the idea of "win the start = win the race"
Sir ben doesn't seem to have made any mistakes...but has lost like 500m in a leg and a half
He only won the start by a few metres and better boat speed then put LR in place to harass them.
Good to see the great British tradition in the AC looks set to continue. Bloody funny really. Put up a challenge trophy, lose it first up then never get it back. -
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
LR just disproving the idea of "win the start = win the race"
Sir ben doesn't seem to have made any mistakes...but has lost like 500m in a leg and a half
He only won the start by a few metres and better boat speed then put LR in place to harass them.
Good to see the great British tradition in the AC looks set to continue. Bloody funny really. Put up a challenge trophy, lose it first up then never get it back.@crucial true but LR had won starts by not much more and managed to defend and stretch
im a bit disappointed as if ETNZ wasn;t to win i would have wanted Ienos to, i think they would have put on a great regatta off the isle of
Wight ...and my family all live in Cowes so i would have somewhere to stay...I am concerned if we defend we might risk having even fewer challengers next time, current class already too expensive/complicated for a lot...add to that having to try and take it off ENTZ after they've already defended it once?
