Americas Cup
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@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
You can't, the boat in the lead just goes with you.
@damo said in Americas Cup:
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
You can't, the boat in the lead just goes with you.
Match racing 101
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@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
You can't, the boat in the lead just goes with you.
@damo said in Americas Cup:
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
You can't, the boat in the lead just goes with you.
Would they though? LR didn't cover every time in the 1st race yesterday, the commentators were a bit surprised though
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So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
Just to clarify, my question was why the second boat into the start box doesn’t just go the other side then run straight for the line. That would put you on a different course unless the other boat tacked.
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@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
Just to clarify, my question was why the second boat into the start box doesn’t just go the other side then run straight for the line. That would put you on a different course unless the other boat tacked.
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
Just to clarify, my question was why the second boat into the start box doesn’t just go the other side then run straight for the line. That would put you on a different course unless the other boat tacked.
Because the other boat then needs to just place itself in a position where you have to give way.
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@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
Just to clarify, my question was why the second boat into the start box doesn’t just go the other side then run straight for the line. That would put you on a different course unless the other boat tacked.
Because the other boat then needs to just place itself in a position where you have to give way.
@antipodean said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
Just to clarify, my question was why the second boat into the start box doesn’t just go the other side then run straight for the line. That would put you on a different course unless the other boat tacked.
Because the other boat then needs to just place itself in a position where you have to give way.
Go behind them at speed
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@antipodean said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
Just to clarify, my question was why the second boat into the start box doesn’t just go the other side then run straight for the line. That would put you on a different course unless the other boat tacked.
Because the other boat then needs to just place itself in a position where you have to give way.
Go behind them at speed
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@antipodean said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
Just to clarify, my question was why the second boat into the start box doesn’t just go the other side then run straight for the line. That would put you on a different course unless the other boat tacked.
Because the other boat then needs to just place itself in a position where you have to give way.
Go behind them at speed
What speed? You attempt to go right and they go right covering you. Match racing 101.
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@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@antipodean said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
Just to clarify, my question was why the second boat into the start box doesn’t just go the other side then run straight for the line. That would put you on a different course unless the other boat tacked.
Because the other boat then needs to just place itself in a position where you have to give way.
Go behind them at speed
What speed? You attempt to go right and they go right covering you. Match racing 101.
@antipodean said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@antipodean said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
Just to clarify, my question was why the second boat into the start box doesn’t just go the other side then run straight for the line. That would put you on a different course unless the other boat tacked.
Because the other boat then needs to just place itself in a position where you have to give way.
Go behind them at speed
What speed? You attempt to go right and they go right covering you. Match racing 101.
Yeah, but to repeat myself, LR DIDN'T cover yesterday, they punched forward and skipped a couple more tacks. Are we sure they would simply cover all the way from the start, every time?
And even if we are sure, what's the difference? You're being covered both ways!!!
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@antipodean said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
Just to clarify, my question was why the second boat into the start box doesn’t just go the other side then run straight for the line. That would put you on a different course unless the other boat tacked.
Because the other boat then needs to just place itself in a position where you have to give way.
Go behind them at speed
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@antipodean said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
Just to clarify, my question was why the second boat into the start box doesn’t just go the other side then run straight for the line. That would put you on a different course unless the other boat tacked.
Because the other boat then needs to just place itself in a position where you have to give way.
Go behind them at speed
If you are talking just crossing behind then you have probably lost the favoured side. Therein lies the problem, you can't be behind, at speed, particularly if you are to leeward (wind shadow, disturbed air) you just don't have the speed. It is even more critical in these boats as you can't come off the foils or it's game over.
You are battling the give way rules, time and distance, and the favoured side of the course. The guys on both boats will know which side they want, and most days they will coincide, so they have to battle for that position and don't just sail off on their own. Even in a slightly faster boat you need to be in contact with the opponent. It is too bigger risk to just leave them in better sailing conditions. Stay in the same conditions in a better boat and you win. Get in front in a slower boat and you dictate the terms. It's very much what I was saying about fleet races v match races that we have talked about previously, and how different they are. Most of my sailing is fleet racing so I am no expert, but I can see why they are doing the prestart dial up.
When I was talking about Phil Robertson earlier and his WMRT success I didn't realise that it was the same guy as the commentator. They keep describing him has the "foiling expert". If I have this straight he is a damn good match racer as well in various types.
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@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@antipodean said in Americas Cup:
@crucial said in Americas Cup:
@voodoo said in Americas Cup:
So the start wins the race 100% of the time cos dirty air, yeah?
So going back to someone's (@Crucial maybe?) question a while back, why not just split if you lose the start? Give up 100m off the bat, but get some clear air?
What do you have to lose?
Just to clarify, my question was why the second boat into the start box doesn’t just go the other side then run straight for the line. That would put you on a different course unless the other boat tacked.
Because the other boat then needs to just place itself in a position where you have to give way.
Go behind them at speed
If you are talking just crossing behind then you have probably lost the favoured side. Therein lies the problem, you can't be behind, at speed, particularly if you are to leeward (wind shadow, disturbed air) you just don't have the speed. It is even more critical in these boats as you can't come off the foils or it's game over.
You are battling the give way rules, time and distance, and the favoured side of the course. The guys on both boats will know which side they want, and most days they will coincide, so they have to battle for that position and don't just sail off on their own. Even in a slightly faster boat you need to be in contact with the opponent. It is too bigger risk to just leave them in better sailing conditions. Stay in the same conditions in a better boat and you win. Get in front in a slower boat and you dictate the terms. It's very much what I was saying about fleet races v match races that we have talked about previously, and how different they are. Most of my sailing is fleet racing so I am no expert, but I can see why they are doing the prestart dial up.
When I was talking about Phil Robertson earlier and his WMRT success I didn't realise that it was the same guy as the commentator. They keep describing him has the "foiling expert". If I have this straight he is a damn good match racer as well in various types.
@snowy There was an AC a few cycles ago, can't remember which one, where boats did allow each other to go off and find wind. I recall you would sometimes find they were racing their own race until a cross at some point. Not overly exciting to watch either. What we need is more wind and more tacking
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@snowy There was an AC a few cycles ago, can't remember which one, where boats did allow each other to go off and find wind. I recall you would sometimes find they were racing their own race until a cross at some point. Not overly exciting to watch either. What we need is more wind and more tacking
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@canefan I think all the monohull ACs were more like that, so pre 2013 (ignoring the deed of gift), I’m sure 95-2007 were more like that
@kiwiwomble said in Americas Cup:
@canefan I think all the monohull ACs were more like that, so pre 2013 (ignoring the deed of gift), I’m sure 95-2007 were more like that
I was thinking more recently, either SF or Bermuda
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@snowy There was an AC a few cycles ago, can't remember which one, where boats did allow each other to go off and find wind. I recall you would sometimes find they were racing their own race until a cross at some point. Not overly exciting to watch either. What we need is more wind and more tacking
@canefan said in Americas Cup:
What we need is more wind and more tacking
Yes. Wind shadows aren't quite such an influence in stronger breezes and maneuvers aren't so costly as the boats are above a comfortable speed to not fall of the foils, or at least not make a low speed tack - especially us with "small feet" compared to the big dick swinging Italians. Let's hope that it is how you use it not the size that matters (we all know the truth).
We had boat speed on them in Bermuda. The cats were drag races not match races. In SF when the traitors arrived they had the speed on us.
It is dull to watch after the first 5 minutes - but I still will.
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@canefan said in Americas Cup:
What we need is more wind and more tacking
Yes. Wind shadows aren't quite such an influence in stronger breezes and maneuvers aren't so costly as the boats are above a comfortable speed to not fall of the foils, or at least not make a low speed tack - especially us with "small feet" compared to the big dick swinging Italians. Let's hope that it is how you use it not the size that matters (we all know the truth).
We had boat speed on them in Bermuda. The cats were drag races not match races. In SF when the traitors arrived they had the speed on us.
It is dull to watch after the first 5 minutes - but I still will.
@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@canefan said in Americas Cup:
What we need is more wind and more tacking
Yes. Wind shadows aren't quite such an influence in stronger breezes and maneuvers aren't so costly as the boats are above a comfortable speed to not fall of the foils, or at least not make a low speed tack - especially us with "small feet" compared to the big dick swinging Italians. Let's hope that it is how you use it not the size that matters (we all know the truth).
We had boat speed on them in Bermuda. The cats were drag races not match races. In SF when the traitors arrived they had the speed on us.
It is dull to watch after the first 5 minutes - but I still will.
Let's face it, it's yacht racing, not MMA, and you can't just make more wind. They could have raised the lower wind range though
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@snowy said in Americas Cup:
@canefan said in Americas Cup:
What we need is more wind and more tacking
Yes. Wind shadows aren't quite such an influence in stronger breezes and maneuvers aren't so costly as the boats are above a comfortable speed to not fall of the foils, or at least not make a low speed tack - especially us with "small feet" compared to the big dick swinging Italians. Let's hope that it is how you use it not the size that matters (we all know the truth).
We had boat speed on them in Bermuda. The cats were drag races not match races. In SF when the traitors arrived they had the speed on us.
It is dull to watch after the first 5 minutes - but I still will.
Let's face it, it's yacht racing, not MMA, and you can't just make more wind. They could have raised the lower wind range though
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I should add that the course design, race length, etc. was done for spectator appeal and they ended up with a rather unappealing product. I feel sorry for the comms at times. Very difficult to make this exciting, and I enjoy sailing, but they have to talk shit knowing full well when a race is done and dusted.
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I should add that the course design, race length, etc. was done for spectator appeal and they ended up with a rather unappealing product. I feel sorry for the comms at times. Very difficult to make this exciting, and I enjoy sailing, but they have to talk shit knowing full well when a race is done and dusted.
@snowy haha yep "TNZ/LR can only hope for an error at this point" (leg 3 of 6)
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Does anybody know why they went away from the triangular courses that used to be used? At the moment they just go upwind and downwind for 6 legs. If there was a triangular course that would provide some variation.
Back when I used to sail, the standard was once around a triangle and then a final long leg to finish.
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Does anybody know why they went away from the triangular courses that used to be used? At the moment they just go upwind and downwind for 6 legs. If there was a triangular course that would provide some variation.
Back when I used to sail, the standard was once around a triangle and then a final long leg to finish.
@damo said in Americas Cup:
Does anybody know why they went away from the triangular courses that used to be used? At the moment they just go upwind and downwind for 6 legs. If there was a triangular course that would provide some variation.
Back when I used to sail, the standard was once around a triangle and then a final long leg to finish.
It's the boats mostly (and TB coverage and spectator appeal).
I've mentioned it before but I think an Olympic triangle doesn't really suit these boats - nor the cats. They are always upwind, because of apparent wind. Look how tight trimmed / close hauled they are "downwind". There ain't any goose wing sets anymore.A reach leg wouldn't involve any sailing skill, just the drag out to the mark.
All a bit of a mind fuck for old school sailors. I call it physics, some call it witchcraft, but not much point in a triangle as I see it.
