All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2
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Have to say I hate the 'jump to take a pass/into a tackle' and agree the final penalty was bollocks. What is a tackler meant to do, step aside and let him through the line? It's entirely different to jumping to take a high ball.
I always thought from my playing days that jumping into a tackle was illegal, but I don't think I've ever seen it penalised in the pro game.
@SimonAdd_2 Agree.
However we're so far down the "player safety" rabbit hole that the poor whistle blower couldn't really call anything else - no doubt some poorly though out directive. It's an ideal over-ruling reality (again)fluffybunny of a way to decide an intriguing game though
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Have to say I hate the 'jump to take a pass/into a tackle' and agree the final penalty was bollocks. What is a tackler meant to do, step aside and let him through the line? It's entirely different to jumping to take a high ball.
I always thought from my playing days that jumping into a tackle was illegal, but I don't think I've ever seen it penalised in the pro game.
Is the second penalty for jumping into a tackle on tour so far
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@Nepia yeah we missed kaino, and yep it told in the end with our guys running out of gas - but i just don't think you can defend in the backs a man down for 3/4 of a game - and a big part of the gameplan was running SBW at their closer channel, a job laumape is made for. to hansen's credit he also tried to mitigate it by bringing on the prop subs earlier than usual, and subbing whitelock and cane earlier, but it is a hell of a tough situation to cope with and we almost hung in there - pretty tough to fault the decision in those circumstances i think.
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Is the second penalty for jumping into a tackle on tour so far
@taniwharugby you mean the second penalty against the tackler? I can't remember the first.
I've always hated it. Up there with diving over the top of a ruck to score a try for me. Leaves the defenders no legal recourse and just feels like a loophole in the laws that defies the spirit of the game.
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I think we had to make that Kaino sub. For the two Lions tries (and one of them was 14 against 14) they looked like they were doing a very good job exploiting our wide defenders. I would shudder to think what would have happened if we were down a back. The forwards would be shattered after that but they did enough for us to win that game tonight. Still feel for Kaino though.
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SBW deserves criticism but not to be a scapegoat. I hope people realise that. It would be disappointing if people respond to this by booing him or by having a go at him personally.
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
SBW deserves criticism but not to be a scapegoat. I hope people realise that. It would be disappointing if people respond to this by booing him or by having a go at him personally.
Um yeah, in the age of social media I can definitely see that happening.
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@Nepia yeah we missed kaino, and yep it told in the end with our guys running out of gas - but i just don't think you can defend in the backs a man down for 3/4 of a game - and a big part of the gameplan was running SBW at their closer channel, a job laumape is made for. to hansen's credit he also tried to mitigate it by bringing on the prop subs earlier than usual, and subbing whitelock and cane earlier, but it is a hell of a tough situation to cope with and we almost hung in there - pretty tough to fault the decision in those circumstances i think.
@reprobate said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia yeah we missed kaino, and yep it told in the end with our guys running out of gas - but i just don't think you can defend in the backs a man down for 3/4 of a game - and a big part of the gameplan was running SBW at their closer channel, a job laumape is made for. to hansen's credit he also tried to mitigate it by bringing on the prop subs earlier than usual, and subbing whitelock and cane earlier, but it is a hell of a tough situation to cope with and we almost hung in there - pretty tough to fault the decision in those circumstances i think.
Agree. Nepia is just upset that it was Kaino
Kaino is usually replaced so the coaches know the fitness/stamina of their players.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia yeah we missed kaino, and yep it told in the end with our guys running out of gas - but i just don't think you can defend in the backs a man down for 3/4 of a game - and a big part of the gameplan was running SBW at their closer channel, a job laumape is made for. to hansen's credit he also tried to mitigate it by bringing on the prop subs earlier than usual, and subbing whitelock and cane earlier, but it is a hell of a tough situation to cope with and we almost hung in there - pretty tough to fault the decision in those circumstances i think.
Agree. Nepia is just upset that it was Kaino
Kaino is usually replaced so the coaches know the fitness/stamina of their players.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia yeah we missed kaino, and yep it told in the end with our guys running out of gas - but i just don't think you can defend in the backs a man down for 3/4 of a game - and a big part of the gameplan was running SBW at their closer channel, a job laumape is made for. to hansen's credit he also tried to mitigate it by bringing on the prop subs earlier than usual, and subbing whitelock and cane earlier, but it is a hell of a tough situation to cope with and we almost hung in there - pretty tough to fault the decision in those circumstances i think.
Agree. Nepia is just upset that it was Kaino
Kaino is usually replaced so the coaches know the fitness/stamina of their players.
If it was Read, Whitelock, Taylor, Moody, or Franks that was the forward to go you'd be the loudest complainer (well you or Stargazer).
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SBW deserves criticism but not to be a scapegoat. I hope people realise that. It would be disappointing if people respond to this by booing him or by having a go at him personally.
@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.
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@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.
I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.
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SBW deserves criticism but not to be a scapegoat. I hope people realise that. It would be disappointing if people respond to this by booing him or by having a go at him personally.
@hydro11
man, that guy has a strange lifeHe obviously spends his entire life fine tuning his body and physical attributes (incredible discipline) and he gets embroiled in the greatest (offloads WRC final, NRL premierships) and lowest (Bulldogs, this) feats.
Still, I reckon it's the ol' "drop catch syndrome" - no one's feeling worse about it than him, so it's not much point reminding him how he fucked up
Meanwhile, WR will seize on the coverage and opportunity to reinforce their importance by denying him the game next week.
"Player safety paramount...blah blah "
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Well my margin of 13+ didn't happen but a win will do me. In work so didn't get to see it.
Congrats Lions. Commiserations NZ. Sets it up nicely for next week.
@Pot-Hale said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Well my margin of 13+ didn't happen but a win will do me. In work so didn't get to see it.
Congrats Lions. Commiserations NZ. Sets it up nicely for next week.
Two from two on the betting front (Chicago and now this). Good work. I think it's time you chucked a bet on the ABs for Test 3!
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After some reflection on the ABs peformances some random thoughts:
- the pack was really good given the circumstances. All of them were buried in the tight all night covering the loss of Kaino. BBBR and Cane were paritcularly impressive.
- Naholo was really good, he was making big yards in close in the first half, was a big loss when he went off.
- Laumape was also really good, he should wear 12 next week because fuck SBW (I actually rate him higher now).
- Aaron Smith was good. @Crucial has called it all year and he is right about TJP, he lets his emotions dictate in niggly games like this. He didn't have a positive impact in the final 20 in terms of composure.
- Beauden wasn't total shit but I think the Carter vs Beauden debate was answered to a large degree. Carter thrived in games like that, Beauden has freakish skills but doesn't have the same leadership & game management Carter had.
- Ioane was quiet, didn't get any space for obvious reasons (SBW) but was hoping he'd impose himself a bit more. It's pretty close between him and Jules at the moment.
- Dagg is a better 14 than 15.
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@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.
@scruffy-lookin said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@hydro11 Are you a scapegoat when it's your fault? Isn't that just being held responsible? SBW farked up royally and has form of doing exactly the same thing in big games. I'm all for letting players learn from their mistakes and come back better but I would be OK with him being dropped.
Some people are saying he should never play again. Fair enough saying that tonight but I hope people don't say that in a month's time. I hope people can move forward.
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Tonight my 6 year old daughter stayed up to watch the game - her first night game watching the ABs. Of course, she fucking ruined the occasion and I couldn't concentrate on the game. I was resigned to the loss as soon as the shoulder hit the head.
But it was a fucking weird game - again - every time I looked up the Lions were butchering this gilt edged opportunity. Then, as a humiliating loss loomed they came on hard and rolled on over us. They were fucking desperate tonight and I can't fault them.
Still don't get the final penalty with the Sinckler jump into the tackle.
Did this game have off the charts niggle? The Sky panel seem to be saying that Vunipola was mouthing off after the game (maybe in the tunnel)?
@Tregaskis said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
jump
And the interview Sky did with Murray after the game:
Sky: "Talk us through the game winning moment"
Murray: "I looked up and realised that if I threw a really crap pass, there was the option for a penalty for taking the player in the air or if my pass was really bad, maybe taking the player without the ball"
Sky: "It was a good pass then?"
Murray: "Well I almost threw it over Sincklers head, but fortunately he was able to reach it"
Sky: "after that pass you started to walk to the sidelines - did you think Gatland was going to sub you"
Murray: "Yeah...it was a shit pass. I was just lucky Garces was watching a different game" -
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia yeah we missed kaino, and yep it told in the end with our guys running out of gas - but i just don't think you can defend in the backs a man down for 3/4 of a game - and a big part of the gameplan was running SBW at their closer channel, a job laumape is made for. to hansen's credit he also tried to mitigate it by bringing on the prop subs earlier than usual, and subbing whitelock and cane earlier, but it is a hell of a tough situation to cope with and we almost hung in there - pretty tough to fault the decision in those circumstances i think.
Agree. Nepia is just upset that it was Kaino
Kaino is usually replaced so the coaches know the fitness/stamina of their players.
If it was Read, Whitelock, Taylor, Moody, or Franks that was the forward to go you'd be the loudest complainer (well you or Stargazer).
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia yeah we missed kaino, and yep it told in the end with our guys running out of gas - but i just don't think you can defend in the backs a man down for 3/4 of a game - and a big part of the gameplan was running SBW at their closer channel, a job laumape is made for. to hansen's credit he also tried to mitigate it by bringing on the prop subs earlier than usual, and subbing whitelock and cane earlier, but it is a hell of a tough situation to cope with and we almost hung in there - pretty tough to fault the decision in those circumstances i think.
Agree. Nepia is just upset that it was Kaino
Kaino is usually replaced so the coaches know the fitness/stamina of their players.
If it was Read, Whitelock, Taylor, Moody, or Franks that was the forward to go you'd be the loudest complainer (well you or Stargazer).
Nah, take one away and we still have plenty of others on the park....
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.
I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@reprobate We'll never know TBF. But considering we had ALB packing down on every scrum bar one and we barely ever had a set backline I don't think we needed to do it.
I thought ALB only packed down on our feed.
There was only one scrum at the end that I can actually remember him not packing down - but then I may have missed him not being there on the other scrums.
