Eden Park
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@No-Quarter said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Rapido said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@nzzp said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Nepia said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
However, just vilifying all the residents off hand is stupid.
There's a few that oppose it. Under the RMA, they have the right (and the means it appears) to challenge resource consents. So, basically, no late events at EP until either the Unitary Plan changes (not happening), or everyone locally rolls over.
Note that EP tried to get 6 late events a year when the Unitary Plan rolled out. They failed, so each one now needs a RC application -w hich costs a pile of money, and has no guarantee of success. Basically, they are farked.
What is classed as a "late event"?
Anything that goes past 10PM. Which is why Auckland got basically no cricket this summer - the Indian broadcasters wanted 11PM finish times to maximise viewers, and it was too costly for EP to bother applying for resource consent. That was particularly costly given the one T20 they played there sold out, and they would have expected similar for the ODIs.
The whole situation is a shambles.
Edit - this article gives a good summary of how ridiculous it is, and how frustrated NZC get with Eden Park. As a cricket fan living in Auckland this shits me no end...
A cricket game should finish by 10pm anyway.
Trying to schedule games that they finish at 11 is understandable, from an Indian TV money POV, but not very sustainable. Eden Park still has I'd guess almost 20 odd events a year using the lights until 10pm.
Hardly anyone turned up to the Wellington game finishing at 11 except for Indian students and young ex-pat Indian professionals with no kids.
I remember one of the Australian grounds used to have a similar restraint, in the 80s or 90s. Had to have the lights off by 10:30 I think. If the team bowling last were behind in their over rates it caused all sorts of chaos.
@Rapido said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@No-Quarter said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Rapido said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@nzzp said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Nepia said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
However, just vilifying all the residents off hand is stupid.
There's a few that oppose it. Under the RMA, they have the right (and the means it appears) to challenge resource consents. So, basically, no late events at EP until either the Unitary Plan changes (not happening), or everyone locally rolls over.
Note that EP tried to get 6 late events a year when the Unitary Plan rolled out. They failed, so each one now needs a RC application -w hich costs a pile of money, and has no guarantee of success. Basically, they are farked.
What is classed as a "late event"?
Anything that goes past 10PM. Which is why Auckland got basically no cricket this summer - the Indian broadcasters wanted 11PM finish times to maximise viewers, and it was too costly for EP to bother applying for resource consent. That was particularly costly given the one T20 they played there sold out, and they would have expected similar for the ODIs.
The whole situation is a shambles.
Edit - this article gives a good summary of how ridiculous it is, and how frustrated NZC get with Eden Park. As a cricket fan living in Auckland this shits me no end...
A cricket game should finish by 10pm anyway.
Trying to schedule games that they finish at 11 is understandable, from an Indian TV money POV, but not very sustainable. Eden Park still has I'd guess almost 20 odd events a year using the lights until 10pm.
Hardly anyone turned up to the Wellington game finishing at 11 except for Indian students and young ex-pat Indian professionals with no kids.
I remember one of the Australian grounds used to have a similar restraint, in the 80s or 90s. Had to have the lights off by 10:30 I think. If the team bowling last were behind in their over rates it caused all sorts of chaos.
Yeah, I agree 11PM is too late but to be so insanely inflexible that they can't even make an exception is ridiculous. And NZC say they have problems scheduling matches there due to the constraints, which again is an absurd situation for a ground that needs to be used to pay for itself.
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@canefan assume he is alluding to that roof thing they have in Dunedin....
@taniwharugby said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@canefan assume he is alluding to that roof thing they have in Dunedin....
I didn't really think the roof mattered (not to rugby anyway), it is regardless a nice stadium
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I live about ten minutes walk from Twickenham nowadays and i can see it gives one big behemoth ground but...
Its always the same people going and doesn't bring the players and games out to the rest of the country.
Pretty shit if you live anywhere outside of London to see your national team.
I have always though it was better back home where kids around the country have the All Blacks roll into a city near them every year.
Honestly think the Auckland "national stadium" approach would harm rugby in the rest of the country.
Not a fan at all
@Davesofthunder said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
I live about ten minutes walk from Twickenham nowadays and i can see it gives one big behemoth ground but...
Its always the same people going and doesn't bring the players and games out to the rest of the country.
Pretty shit if you live anywhere outside of London to see your national team.
I have always though it was better back home where kids around the country have the All Blacks roll into a city near them every year.
Honestly think the Auckland "national stadium" approach would harm rugby in the rest of the country.
Not a fan at all
I agree I don't like the idea of a national stadium, there's no way families around the country can afford to take a trip to Auckland just to see international games of note.
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@Davesofthunder said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
I live about ten minutes walk from Twickenham nowadays and i can see it gives one big behemoth ground but...
Its always the same people going and doesn't bring the players and games out to the rest of the country.
Pretty shit if you live anywhere outside of London to see your national team.
I have always though it was better back home where kids around the country have the All Blacks roll into a city near them every year.
Honestly think the Auckland "national stadium" approach would harm rugby in the rest of the country.
Not a fan at all
I agree I don't like the idea of a national stadium, there's no way families around the country can afford to take a trip to Auckland just to see international games of note.
@No-Quarter even from Whangarei it isnt that easy or cheap; petrol, food and if I decide to stay, accomodation too.
If I drive, I go to Park'n'ride in Albany and bus to EP, basically spend 6+hours in a vehicle.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Machpants said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Thing is, in NH, the games are all same ground. We need the same. And AKL being the biggest it should be there. one big, expendable, convertible ground - ALL ABs games there. every important game there. And then we can have a decent stadium and NZR will make decent money.
But it's gotta be a good stadium, and Eden park ain't that
I used to think the same. But now I think that's wrong. I like the way things get spread around a bit. However, I'm not sure it should be spread around as much as it is ... Not convinced that the likes of Nelson should be able to host AB games, regardless of the opposition.
6 home tests a year ... 2 AKL, 1 well, 1 Ccch, 1 Dunedin and 1 regional is how I'd set it up.
Dunedin??? How quaint that you dont consider Dunedin regional.
Dunedin did something nobody else did.
If you build it, they will come.
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Machpants said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Thing is, in NH, the games are all same ground. We need the same. And AKL being the biggest it should be there. one big, expendable, convertible ground - ALL ABs games there. every important game there. And then we can have a decent stadium and NZR will make decent money.
But it's gotta be a good stadium, and Eden park ain't that
I used to think the same. But now I think that's wrong. I like the way things get spread around a bit. However, I'm not sure it should be spread around as much as it is ... Not convinced that the likes of Nelson should be able to host AB games, regardless of the opposition.
6 home tests a year ... 2 AKL, 1 well, 1 Ccch, 1 Dunedin and 1 regional is how I'd set it up.
Dunedin??? How quaint that you dont consider Dunedin regional.
Dunedin did something nobody else did.
If you build it, they will come.
I thought we were discussing lessening the amount of test venues?
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@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Machpants said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Thing is, in NH, the games are all same ground. We need the same. And AKL being the biggest it should be there. one big, expendable, convertible ground - ALL ABs games there. every important game there. And then we can have a decent stadium and NZR will make decent money.
But it's gotta be a good stadium, and Eden park ain't that
I used to think the same. But now I think that's wrong. I like the way things get spread around a bit. However, I'm not sure it should be spread around as much as it is ... Not convinced that the likes of Nelson should be able to host AB games, regardless of the opposition.
6 home tests a year ... 2 AKL, 1 well, 1 Ccch, 1 Dunedin and 1 regional is how I'd set it up.
Dunedin??? How quaint that you dont consider Dunedin regional.
Dunedin did something nobody else did.
If you build it, they will come.
Ahem the Caketin was built first last time I checked.......
@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Machpants said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Thing is, in NH, the games are all same ground. We need the same. And AKL being the biggest it should be there. one big, expendable, convertible ground - ALL ABs games there. every important game there. And then we can have a decent stadium and NZR will make decent money.
But it's gotta be a good stadium, and Eden park ain't that
I used to think the same. But now I think that's wrong. I like the way things get spread around a bit. However, I'm not sure it should be spread around as much as it is ... Not convinced that the likes of Nelson should be able to host AB games, regardless of the opposition.
6 home tests a year ... 2 AKL, 1 well, 1 Ccch, 1 Dunedin and 1 regional is how I'd set it up.
Dunedin??? How quaint that you dont consider Dunedin regional.
Dunedin did something nobody else did.
If you build it, they will come.
Ahem the Caketin was built first last time I checked.......
Not really the point I was making. Wellington is always a major Centre, not really in doubt.
Dunedin ... not so much.
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@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Machpants said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Thing is, in NH, the games are all same ground. We need the same. And AKL being the biggest it should be there. one big, expendable, convertible ground - ALL ABs games there. every important game there. And then we can have a decent stadium and NZR will make decent money.
But it's gotta be a good stadium, and Eden park ain't that
I used to think the same. But now I think that's wrong. I like the way things get spread around a bit. However, I'm not sure it should be spread around as much as it is ... Not convinced that the likes of Nelson should be able to host AB games, regardless of the opposition.
6 home tests a year ... 2 AKL, 1 well, 1 Ccch, 1 Dunedin and 1 regional is how I'd set it up.
Dunedin??? How quaint that you dont consider Dunedin regional.
Dunedin did something nobody else did.
If you build it, they will come.
I thought we were discussing lessening the amount of test venues?
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It's an artificial constraint by an organisation (the Council) that own their own stadiums/venues in direct competition with Eden Park.
Corrupt.
@Kirwan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
It's an artificial constraint by an organisation (the Council) that own their own stadiums/venues in direct competition with Eden Park.
Corrupt.
You don't work much with Council, do you? Hanlon's Razor applies here - they are so far from a joined up organisation it's not funny
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback I have no idea what point you are making there honestly.
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback I have no idea what point you are making there honestly.
The discussion was around rationing out test matches? You thought Dunedin should be guaranteed a test every year because they have a roof? Despite being a small regional centre? Makes no sense. What if Taupo built a covered stadium? We should drop Welllington in favour of Taupo?
You including Dunedin and excluding Hamilton is just bizarre to me.. and I dont even go to Waikato Stadium. -
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback I have no idea what point you are making there honestly.
The discussion was around rationing out test matches? You thought Dunedin should be guaranteed a test every year because they have a roof? Despite being a small regional centre? Makes no sense. What if Taupo built a covered stadium? We should drop Welllington in favour of Taupo?
You including Dunedin and excluding Hamilton is just bizarre to me.. and I dont even go to Waikato Stadium. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback @MajorRage the best stadia are proper rectangular ones.
Dunedin
Waikato
North Harbour
Athletic ParkIt's chalk and cheese being there compared to being in a multi-purpose stadium.
@nzzp said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback @MajorRage the best stadia are proper rectangular ones.
Dunedin
Waikato
North Harbour
Athletic ParkIt's chalk and cheese being there compared to being in a multi-purpose stadium.
Athletic Park? Does that still exist? I agree about Rectangular grounds, same in reverse in cricket.
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@nzzp said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback @MajorRage the best stadia are proper rectangular ones.
Dunedin
Waikato
North Harbour
Athletic ParkIt's chalk and cheese being there compared to being in a multi-purpose stadium.
Athletic Park? Does that still exist? I agree about Rectangular grounds, same in reverse in cricket.
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@nzzp said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback @MajorRage the best stadia are proper rectangular ones.
Dunedin
Waikato
North Harbour
Athletic ParkIt's chalk and cheese being there compared to being in a multi-purpose stadium.
Athletic Park? Does that still exist? I agree about Rectangular grounds, same in reverse in cricket.
Nah, it's a retirement home.
But I'm living in the past. Miniskirts. Lifting in the lineouts. Cellphones that don't break if you drop 'em...
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I live about ten minutes walk from Twickenham nowadays and i can see it gives one big behemoth ground but...
Its always the same people going and doesn't bring the players and games out to the rest of the country.
Pretty shit if you live anywhere outside of London to see your national team.
I have always though it was better back home where kids around the country have the All Blacks roll into a city near them every year.
Honestly think the Auckland "national stadium" approach would harm rugby in the rest of the country.
Not a fan at all
@Davesofthunder said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
I live about ten minutes walk from Twickenham nowadays and i can see it gives one big behemoth ground but...
Its always the same people going and doesn't bring the players and games out to the rest of the country.
Pretty shit if you live anywhere outside of London to see your national team.
I have always though it was better back home where kids around the country have the All Blacks roll into a city near them every year.
Honestly think the Auckland "national stadium" approach would harm rugby in the rest of the country.
Not a fan at all
Yep, plus the fact you can get to London from Scotland on a train in just over 4 hours and of course the matter of those few million people that live in London.
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@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback I have no idea what point you are making there honestly.
The discussion was around rationing out test matches? You thought Dunedin should be guaranteed a test every year because they have a roof? Despite being a small regional centre? Makes no sense. What if Taupo built a covered stadium? We should drop Welllington in favour of Taupo?
You including Dunedin and excluding Hamilton is just bizarre to me.. and I dont even go to Waikato Stadium.@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback I have no idea what point you are making there honestly.
The discussion was around rationing out test matches? You thought Dunedin should be guaranteed a test every year because they have a roof? Despite being a small regional centre? Makes no sense. What if Taupo built a covered stadium? We should drop Welllington in favour of Taupo?
You including Dunedin and excluding Hamilton is just bizarre to me.. and I dont even go to Waikato Stadium.Do you think Dunedin viewed them self as small regional Centre when they built a world class small-medium rectangular ground with roof? Or was Tauranga when they said let’s play rugby in a speedway circuit?
Hamilton, is close to Auckland, I support the idea of spreading it around. Dunedin figures it out and did something to keep, note keep, not put, them on the agenda.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback I have no idea what point you are making there honestly.
The discussion was around rationing out test matches? You thought Dunedin should be guaranteed a test every year because they have a roof? Despite being a small regional centre? Makes no sense. What if Taupo built a covered stadium? We should drop Welllington in favour of Taupo?
You including Dunedin and excluding Hamilton is just bizarre to me.. and I dont even go to Waikato Stadium.Do you think Dunedin viewed them self as small regional Centre when they built a world class small-medium rectangular ground with roof? Or was Tauranga when they said let’s play rugby in a speedway circuit?
Hamilton, is close to Auckland, I support the idea of spreading it around. Dunedin figures it out and did something to keep, note keep, not put, them on the agenda.
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback I have no idea what point you are making there honestly.
The discussion was around rationing out test matches? You thought Dunedin should be guaranteed a test every year because they have a roof? Despite being a small regional centre? Makes no sense. What if Taupo built a covered stadium? We should drop Welllington in favour of Taupo?
You including Dunedin and excluding Hamilton is just bizarre to me.. and I dont even go to Waikato Stadium.Do you think Dunedin viewed them self as small regional Centre when they built a world class small-medium rectangular ground with roof? Or was Tauranga when they said let’s play rugby in a speedway circuit?
Hamilton, is close to Auckland, I support the idea of spreading it around. Dunedin figures it out and did something to keep, note keep, not put, them on the agenda.
I dont give a shit how Dunedin viewed itself, it could view itself as the biggest city in the world for all I care.
Dunedin is a small regional city with an decent ground, nothing more. No way does it deserve guaranteed AB games every year.
I like the way it is currently done, Dunedin in wins hosting rights on its own merits. But is on a similar raking to other centres like Hamilton.
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@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback I have no idea what point you are making there honestly.
The discussion was around rationing out test matches? You thought Dunedin should be guaranteed a test every year because they have a roof? Despite being a small regional centre? Makes no sense. What if Taupo built a covered stadium? We should drop Welllington in favour of Taupo?
You including Dunedin and excluding Hamilton is just bizarre to me.. and I dont even go to Waikato Stadium.Do you think Dunedin viewed them self as small regional Centre when they built a world class small-medium rectangular ground with roof? Or was Tauranga when they said let’s play rugby in a speedway circuit?
Hamilton, is close to Auckland, I support the idea of spreading it around. Dunedin figures it out and did something to keep, note keep, not put, them on the agenda.
I dont give a shit how Dunedin viewed itself, it could view itself as the biggest city in the world for all I care.
Dunedin is a small regional city with an decent ground, nothing more. No way does it deserve guaranteed AB games every year.
I like the way it is currently done, Dunedin in wins hosting rights on its own merits. But is on a similar raking to other centres like Hamilton.
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@MajorRage said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback I have no idea what point you are making there honestly.
The discussion was around rationing out test matches? You thought Dunedin should be guaranteed a test every year because they have a roof? Despite being a small regional centre? Makes no sense. What if Taupo built a covered stadium? We should drop Welllington in favour of Taupo?
You including Dunedin and excluding Hamilton is just bizarre to me.. and I dont even go to Waikato Stadium.Do you think Dunedin viewed them self as small regional Centre when they built a world class small-medium rectangular ground with roof? Or was Tauranga when they said let’s play rugby in a speedway circuit?
Hamilton, is close to Auckland, I support the idea of spreading it around. Dunedin figures it out and did something to keep, note keep, not put, them on the agenda.
I dont give a shit how Dunedin viewed itself, it could view itself as the biggest city in the world for all I care.
Dunedin is a small regional city with an decent ground, nothing more. No way does it deserve guaranteed AB games every year.
I like the way it is currently done, Dunedin in wins hosting rights on its own merits. But is on a similar raking to other centres like Hamilton.
Well, we ain't ever gonna agree then. Nothing new!
But it's worth pointing out that Dunedin has had a test every year in the last 10 years with the exception of 2015 (RWC) ... so perhaps if you like the way it's currently done, you do actually agree with me.
