Eden Park
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@Duluth all good points. No matter where you put it, it won't be close to everyone. I walked home from the NZ v Aus T20 and it was no real drama.
As I said it's really just after the game that is a real pain, especially if you're not within walking distance and/or have kids, which would be largely alleviated by a stadium in the CBD.
Agree there is no justification for it right now. They missed their chance at the RWC.
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@Duluth all good points. No matter where you put it, it won't be close to everyone. I walked home from the NZ v Aus T20 and it was no real drama.
As I said it's really just after the game that is a real pain, especially if you're not within walking distance and/or have kids, which would be largely alleviated by a stadium in the CBD.
Agree there is no justification for it right now. They missed their chance at the RWC.
@no-quarter said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Duluth all good points. No matter where you put it, it won't be close to everyone. I walked home from the NZ v Aus T20 and it was no real drama.
As I said it's really just after the game that is a real pain, especially if you're not within walking distance and/or have kids, which would be largely alleviated by a stadium in the CBD.
Agree there is no justification for it right now. They missed their chance at the RWC.
Yeah! They really missed the boat with that waterfront stadium.............................................................................................................................................................................................
For @dogmeat
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@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@dogmeat said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Both are city fringe anyway. To hear some talk they are in Kumeu or Papakura
It gets repeated without any thought.
I live in the CBD. I go to every game. I walk every time unless its raining.
Then people that don't go to games, or aren't even from Auckland, tell me its too far away.
I live in the CBD, and it's way too far for me to walk with my 5 year old. I'd say it's too far for any family with young kids. But that's not really a problem as it's easy enough to jump on a train.
But, if there's 30k+ people at the match then getting a train back becomes an absolute bloody nightmare. In fact all public transport becomes a nightmare, and Uber/Taxi prices go through the roof.
I like Eden Park, it's a really great stadium to watch rugby, but post match it's a pain in the arse. No doubt a stadium in the city would help with that, as the crowd just dissipates into the city and you have the main train station there that can handle larger numbers.
All of this is irrelevant anyway as there's absolutely no way in hell this will go ahead until Auckland has another reason, like the RWC, to get the funding together.
@no-quarter I either drive and have a 15 minute walk back to the car or if I intend to make a night of it catch the free bus to and from Takapuna.
I have always had a drink in my hand well within an hour of the final whistle.
I caught a train to the (notorious) Opening Ceremony in 2011. I honestly think part of the problem is Kiwi crowds think they can turn up 5 minutes before kick off.
A CBD site on railway land would be OK but as Duluth points out there would be space constraints and a site there would still be a good 20-30 minute walk to the entertainment zone.
The one thing I do not want is a waterfront stadium as proposed for the RWC.
Way to totally ruin the waterfront.
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I live out West, 15min drive to EP, always get a park then a short walk to stadium.
Easy enough that my daughter has been doing it since she was 7. Eden Park is piss easy to get to.
@kirwan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
I live out West, 15min drive to EP, always get a park then a short walk to stadium.
Easy enough that my daughter has been doing it since she was 7. Eden Park is piss easy to get to.
Personally, I don't think 7 year olds should be driving.
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@no-quarter said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
I live in the CBD, and it's way too far for me to walk with my 5 year old. I'd say it's too far for any family with young kids.
Oh yeah, definitely too far with young kids.
Looking around at who lives in central Auckland I'm guessing a young family with an interest in rugby is a tiny population. I doubt many people in my building would know who Kieran Read was..
Close enough for adults easily.
I'm in Lorne Street not far from the middle of Queen St (the old Whitcoulls, Civic etc). I timed it recently and it was 35mins from door to door.
Google claims it is 48mins. The $1.5 billion new stadium would be 22mins according to google
Apartments on K Road would be the same distance from either location
For that amount of money there needs to be much more compelling reasons than distance. I don't think it can be justified given the amount of debt politicians have already accumulated for ratepayers.
@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
I doubt many people in my building would know who Kieran Read was..
What?
Don't you have tenants meetings?
The first item on the agenda should be a prayer for Kieran's back!
Jesus - this is what Tana has to contend with.
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Getting to and from Eden Park is not an issue, even with the parking restrictions in Mt Eden.
The problem is that Eden Park and Mt Smart won't remain viable forever so sooner or later (and sooner will be cheaper) there will need to be a multi-purpose rectangular stadium built. Otherwise it's just a band-aid solution.
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When I was a 7 year old ....
10 minutes to sprint into the field and try to get autographs.
5 minutes inspecting scrum divets.
5 minutes diving over the tryline.
Reassemble with parents back on the terrace, spend 10 minutes crushing beer cans on the terraces.Half an hour had gone, crowd has dispersed,
Game finished at 4:00 anyway, so is now only 4:30.
Today.
No running on the field. No beer cans. And, games finishes at 9pm. Not many kids there. -
Getting to and from Eden Park is not an issue, even with the parking restrictions in Mt Eden.
The problem is that Eden Park and Mt Smart won't remain viable forever so sooner or later (and sooner will be cheaper) there will need to be a multi-purpose rectangular stadium built. Otherwise it's just a band-aid solution.
@bovidae said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Getting to and from Eden Park is not an issue, even with the parking restrictions in Mt Eden.
The problem is that Eden Park and Mt Smart won't remain viable forever so sooner or later (and sooner will be cheaper) there will need to be a multi-purpose rectangular stadium built. Otherwise it's just a band-aid solution.
They are talking about the stadium being down near Spark Arena. The area is a wasteland and a stadium wouldn't have a residents association in close proximity to deal with. Like the Caketin a stadium there would be right at the city's central transport hub, everyone should either train or bus in. The downtown nightlife is just down the road for after match entertainment.
Once they establish that EP is going there will be a need for a cricket venue. Western Springs is the right shape, but it would need more links to public transport as the parking is poor around there -
@bovidae said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Getting to and from Eden Park is not an issue, even with the parking restrictions in Mt Eden.
The problem is that Eden Park and Mt Smart won't remain viable forever so sooner or later (and sooner will be cheaper) there will need to be a multi-purpose rectangular stadium built. Otherwise it's just a band-aid solution.
They are talking about the stadium being down near Spark Arena. The area is a wasteland and a stadium wouldn't have a residents association in close proximity to deal with. Like the Caketin a stadium there would be right at the city's central transport hub, everyone should either train or bus in. The downtown nightlife is just down the road for after match entertainment.
Once they establish that EP is going there will be a need for a cricket venue. Western Springs is the right shape, but it would need more links to public transport as the parking is poor around thereThere's going to be parking issues in Auckland regardless, which makes investment in public transport so important. The last time I went to Western Springs we ended up parking near St Lukes and walking. Spark has more parking nearby but accommodating 12K is different to 40K+.
Western Springs has similar issues with residents to Eden Park for night events, albeit less of them.
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There's going to be parking issues in Auckland regardless, which makes investment in public transport so important. The last time I went to Western Springs we ended up parking near St Lukes and walking. Spark has more parking nearby but accommodating 12K is different to 40K+.
Western Springs has similar issues with residents to Eden Park for night events, albeit less of them.
@bovidae said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
There's going to be parking issues in Auckland regardless, which makes investment in public transport so important. The last time I went to Western Springs we ended up parking near St Lukes and walking. Spark has more parking nearby but accommodating 12K is different to 40K+.
Western Springs has similar issues with residents to Eden Park for night events, albeit less of them.
Cricket is not as loud as speedway. Their main complaint was the noise of concerts and the speedway
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@bovidae said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Getting to and from Eden Park is not an issue, even with the parking restrictions in Mt Eden.
The problem is that Eden Park and Mt Smart won't remain viable forever so sooner or later (and sooner will be cheaper) there will need to be a multi-purpose rectangular stadium built. Otherwise it's just a band-aid solution.
They are talking about the stadium being down near Spark Arena. The area is a wasteland and a stadium wouldn't have a residents association in close proximity to deal with. Like the Caketin a stadium there would be right at the city's central transport hub, everyone should either train or bus in. The downtown nightlife is just down the road for after match entertainment.
Once they establish that EP is going there will be a need for a cricket venue. Western Springs is the right shape, but it would need more links to public transport as the parking is poor around there@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Once they establish that EP is going there will be a need for a cricket venue. Western Springs is the right shape, but it would need more links to public transport as the parking is poor around there
If rugby moves from EP, why would cricket need or want to move to WS?
Cricket moves to WS only if rugby stays at EP, surely?
There's multiple permuatations of the Auckland stadium shuffle. But surely both moving out and re-building from scratch is just nuts? Especially if one of the re-build options is the worse located and zero existing facilities at Western Springs.
If rugby moves out. Cricket stays at Eden Park with its more central location and train station - retains the 7 year old triple decker stand. Which apart from the covered seating also has bars, toilets etc, with existing 2 light towers etc. Bulldoze the other 3/4 of the ground, expand the playing surface to a cricket size and build a grass embankment.
3/4 cheaper to maintain, could sell off part of the outer oval.
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@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Once they establish that EP is going there will be a need for a cricket venue. Western Springs is the right shape, but it would need more links to public transport as the parking is poor around there
If rugby moves from EP, why would cricket need or want to move to WS?
Cricket moves to WS only if rugby stays at EP, surely?
There's multiple permuatations of the Auckland stadium shuffle. But surely both moving out and re-building from scratch is just nuts? Especially if one of the re-build options is the worse located and zero existing facilities at Western Springs.
If rugby moves out. Cricket stays at Eden Park with its more central location and train station - retains the 7 year old triple decker stand. Which apart from the covered seating also has bars, toilets etc, with existing 2 light towers etc. Bulldoze the other 3/4 of the ground, expand the playing surface to a cricket size and build a grass embankment.
3/4 cheaper to maintain, could sell off part of the outer oval.
@rapido said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Once they establish that EP is going there will be a need for a cricket venue. Western Springs is the right shape, but it would need more links to public transport as the parking is poor around there
If rugby moves from EP, why would cricket need or want to move to WS?
Cricket moves to WS only if rugby stays at EP, surely?
There's multiple permuatations of the Auckland stadium shuffle. But surely both moving out and re-building from scratch is just nuts? Especially if one of the re-build options is the worse located and zero existing facilities at Western Springs.
If rugby moves out. Cricket stays at Eden Park with its more central location and train station - retains the 7 year old triple decker stand. Which apart from the covered seating also has bars, toilets etc, with existing 2 light towers etc. Bulldoze the other 3/4 of the ground, expand the playing surface to a cricket size and build a grass embankment.
3/4 cheaper to maintain, could sell off part of the outer oval.
The article I posted states that NZC feel EP is not fit for test cricket or limited overs cricket. They think EP compromises the games because of the field shape. So yes they would like to leave
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@rapido said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Once they establish that EP is going there will be a need for a cricket venue. Western Springs is the right shape, but it would need more links to public transport as the parking is poor around there
If rugby moves from EP, why would cricket need or want to move to WS?
Cricket moves to WS only if rugby stays at EP, surely?
There's multiple permuatations of the Auckland stadium shuffle. But surely both moving out and re-building from scratch is just nuts? Especially if one of the re-build options is the worse located and zero existing facilities at Western Springs.
If rugby moves out. Cricket stays at Eden Park with its more central location and train station - retains the 7 year old triple decker stand. Which apart from the covered seating also has bars, toilets etc, with existing 2 light towers etc. Bulldoze the other 3/4 of the ground, expand the playing surface to a cricket size and build a grass embankment.
3/4 cheaper to maintain, could sell off part of the outer oval.
The article I posted states that NZC feel EP is not fit for test cricket or limited overs cricket. They think EP compromises the games because of the field shape. So yes they would like to leave
@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@rapido said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Once they establish that EP is going there will be a need for a cricket venue. Western Springs is the right shape, but it would need more links to public transport as the parking is poor around there
If rugby moves from EP, why would cricket need or want to move to WS?
Cricket moves to WS only if rugby stays at EP, surely?
There's multiple permuatations of the Auckland stadium shuffle. But surely both moving out and re-building from scratch is just nuts? Especially if one of the re-build options is the worse located and zero existing facilities at Western Springs.
If rugby moves out. Cricket stays at Eden Park with its more central location and train station - retains the 7 year old triple decker stand. Which apart from the covered seating also has bars, toilets etc, with existing 2 light towers etc. Bulldoze the other 3/4 of the ground, expand the playing surface to a cricket size and build a grass embankment.
3/4 cheaper to maintain, could sell off part of the outer oval.
The article I posted states that NZC feel EP is not fit for test cricket or limited overs cricket. They think EP compromises the games because of the field shape. So yes they would like to leave
It's that shape because of the grandstands, the grandstands are there because of the rugby. If rugby moves ..... there's no longer the need for the north, east and west stands.
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@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@rapido said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Once they establish that EP is going there will be a need for a cricket venue. Western Springs is the right shape, but it would need more links to public transport as the parking is poor around there
If rugby moves from EP, why would cricket need or want to move to WS?
Cricket moves to WS only if rugby stays at EP, surely?
There's multiple permuatations of the Auckland stadium shuffle. But surely both moving out and re-building from scratch is just nuts? Especially if one of the re-build options is the worse located and zero existing facilities at Western Springs.
If rugby moves out. Cricket stays at Eden Park with its more central location and train station - retains the 7 year old triple decker stand. Which apart from the covered seating also has bars, toilets etc, with existing 2 light towers etc. Bulldoze the other 3/4 of the ground, expand the playing surface to a cricket size and build a grass embankment.
3/4 cheaper to maintain, could sell off part of the outer oval.
The article I posted states that NZC feel EP is not fit for test cricket or limited overs cricket. They think EP compromises the games because of the field shape. So yes they would like to leave
It's that shape because of the grandstands, the grandstands are there because of the rugby. If rugby moves ..... there's no longer the need for the north, east and west stands.
@rapido said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@rapido said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Once they establish that EP is going there will be a need for a cricket venue. Western Springs is the right shape, but it would need more links to public transport as the parking is poor around there
If rugby moves from EP, why would cricket need or want to move to WS?
Cricket moves to WS only if rugby stays at EP, surely?
There's multiple permuatations of the Auckland stadium shuffle. But surely both moving out and re-building from scratch is just nuts? Especially if one of the re-build options is the worse located and zero existing facilities at Western Springs.
If rugby moves out. Cricket stays at Eden Park with its more central location and train station - retains the 7 year old triple decker stand. Which apart from the covered seating also has bars, toilets etc, with existing 2 light towers etc. Bulldoze the other 3/4 of the ground, expand the playing surface to a cricket size and build a grass embankment.
3/4 cheaper to maintain, could sell off part of the outer oval.
The article I posted states that NZC feel EP is not fit for test cricket or limited overs cricket. They think EP compromises the games because of the field shape. So yes they would like to leave
It's that shape because of the grandstands, the grandstands are there because of the rugby. If rugby moves ..... there's no longer the need for the north, east and west stands.
If you bowl all stands and start again using the Southern stand as a base? Perhaps. Not actually a bad idea. The trust are not financially viable though, and I don't think turning it into a cricket only venue will help at all. I assume any streamlining of venues will require the surplus ones to be sold. To a lesser extent you could say the same thing about the new Eastern stand at Mt Smart
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If rugby left Eden Park, the stadium would be too expensive to maintain (I imagine). Cricket would want to leave and the land would be used for housing. You get the feeling that a new stadium will be built at some point but it won't be for a while.
The other point no one has addressed is if you want to built a $1.5 billion stadium why would you spend lots on a stadium in Christchurch? Why would you bother playing tests at Waikato Stadium? If there is a new state of the art stadium in Auckland, Eden Park will probably get four tests a year, one in Wellington and one in Dunedin. Also tickets will have to be more expensive.
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If rugby left Eden Park, the stadium would be too expensive to maintain (I imagine). Cricket would want to leave and the land would be used for housing. You get the feeling that a new stadium will be built at some point but it won't be for a while.
The other point no one has addressed is if you want to built a $1.5 billion stadium why would you spend lots on a stadium in Christchurch? Why would you bother playing tests at Waikato Stadium? If there is a new state of the art stadium in Auckland, Eden Park will probably get four tests a year, one in Wellington and one in Dunedin. Also tickets will have to be more expensive.
@hydro11 said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
If rugby left Eden Park, the stadium would be too expensive to maintain (I imagine). Cricket would want to leave and the land would be used for housing. You get the feeling that a new stadium will be built at some point but it won't be for a while.
"the stadium would be too expensive to maintain". Well, that is obvious.
That is probably what Auckland Council and Auckland Cricket officials are thinking, but they wrong. That will be used to justify building 2 completely new stadiums. But that is because absolutely no one is thinking about a partial demolition where from then onwards 75% of the on-going maintenance then involves just mowing the grass on the embankment once a week. As will need to happen at Western Springs.
If Auckland rugby moved out, they would have to demolish.
But why demolish 100% of the ground and build 100% of a new cricket ground (in a worse place with no rail connection, with no lights or electrical sub-station facilities to handle lights, with no practice wickets, with no players facilities or members facilities. When you could demolish 75% of the ground and not build a new cricket ground, and retain all those things - at the only added extra cost of shifting a portion of the rubble into an embankment and sprinkling some topsoil on it.
It would defy common sense.
But it will happen. Because ...
Auckland Council because they would need to justify a full demolition, and 'huuuuuge' running costs etc to justify a 1.5b new stadium.
Auckland Cricket because they just float like flotsam to where their best handout is.
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@no-quarter I either drive and have a 15 minute walk back to the car or if I intend to make a night of it catch the free bus to and from Takapuna.
I have always had a drink in my hand well within an hour of the final whistle.
I caught a train to the (notorious) Opening Ceremony in 2011. I honestly think part of the problem is Kiwi crowds think they can turn up 5 minutes before kick off.
A CBD site on railway land would be OK but as Duluth points out there would be space constraints and a site there would still be a good 20-30 minute walk to the entertainment zone.
The one thing I do not want is a waterfront stadium as proposed for the RWC.
Way to totally ruin the waterfront.
@dogmeat said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@no-quarter I either drive and have a 15 minute walk back to the car or if I intend to make a night of it catch the free bus to and from Takapuna.
I have always had a drink in my hand well within an hour of the final whistle.
I caught a train to the (notorious) Opening Ceremony in 2011. I honestly think part of the problem is Kiwi crowds think they can turn up 5 minutes before kick off.
A CBD site on railway land would be OK but as Duluth points out there would be space constraints and a site there would still be a good 20-30 minute walk to the entertainment zone.
The one thing I do not want is a waterfront stadium as proposed for the RWC.
Way to totally ruin the waterfront.
why would it ruin the waterfront - if it was done right it would enhance it - like opera house in sydney.
it can't make it any farking worse!
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If rugby left Eden Park, the stadium would be too expensive to maintain (I imagine). Cricket would want to leave and the land would be used for housing. You get the feeling that a new stadium will be built at some point but it won't be for a while.
The other point no one has addressed is if you want to built a $1.5 billion stadium why would you spend lots on a stadium in Christchurch? Why would you bother playing tests at Waikato Stadium? If there is a new state of the art stadium in Auckland, Eden Park will probably get four tests a year, one in Wellington and one in Dunedin. Also tickets will have to be more expensive.
@hydro11 said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
. Also tickets will have to be more expensive.Maori land too - so you'll be getting slapped with the same few $$$ charge you get added when you go to stuff at Spark Arena.
which is bullshit - don't understand how you can lease the land but still charge punters on top for a ticket..
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@hydro11 said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
. Also tickets will have to be more expensive.Maori land too - so you'll be getting slapped with the same few $$$ charge you get added when you go to stuff at Spark Arena.
which is bullshit - don't understand how you can lease the land but still charge punters on top for a ticket..
@williethewaiter said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@hydro11 said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
. Also tickets will have to be more expensive.Maori land too - so you'll be getting slapped with the same few $$$ charge you get added when you go to stuff at Spark Arena.
which is bullshit - don't understand how you can lease the land but still charge punters on top for a ticket..
It's good business though. I'm assuming it was part of the lease negotiation so no one can moan about it post lease signing if it was known.
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@hydro11 said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
. Also tickets will have to be more expensive.Maori land too - so you'll be getting slapped with the same few $$$ charge you get added when you go to stuff at Spark Arena.
which is bullshit - don't understand how you can lease the land but still charge punters on top for a ticket..
@williethewaiter Because a stadium would effectively be a 13 story blank wall right on the waterfront with no street activation at all.
Sports stadia are buzzing for a couple of hours either side of a major event. Otherwise they are monolithic prison like structures that dominate their immediate environment.
There's a reason why any images always show a night scene with lots of pretty coloured lights shining up into the black sky. Its because during the day they look like a bunker/prison/warehouse.
I'm sure there are exceptions to the above but does anyone really expect this is what would be delivered in Akl. There is also a reason why most modern developments are in industrial wastelands
