Beer thread
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@MN5 said in Beer thread:
@Crucial said in Beer thread:
@Tim said in Beer thread:
Steinlager has the characteristic off-flavours of an NZ pilsner, but it balances them with malt and hops. It is vastly better than truly diabolical beers like Emerson's Pilsner, or McCloud's Longborder - those are terrible beers, that aren't properly lagered, and are dominated by one awful off-flavour. No one drinks that absolute garbage overseas.
While ranting on pilsner can you explain the connection and almost obsession with the style from “areas of the internet”?
Seems like weird memes, yacht rock and pilsner have some sort of link.Calling a Steinlager a Pilsner is up there with calling a Tui a pale ale
I'm partial to Steinlager, it's a clean beer. I'd hesitate to call it Pilsner, but green bullet hops are underrated.
Joe Wood from Liberty famously loves it, and serves it decanted to beer nerds -
@MN5 said in Beer thread:
@Crucial said in Beer thread:
@Tim said in Beer thread:
Steinlager has the characteristic off-flavours of an NZ pilsner, but it balances them with malt and hops. It is vastly better than truly diabolical beers like Emerson's Pilsner, or McCloud's Longborder - those are terrible beers, that aren't properly lagered, and are dominated by one awful off-flavour. No one drinks that absolute garbage overseas.
While ranting on pilsner can you explain the connection and almost obsession with the style from “areas of the internet”?
Seems like weird memes, yacht rock and pilsner have some sort of link.Calling a Steinlager a Pilsner is up there with calling a Tui a pale ale
In reality though Pilsner just means lager. Then there are styles. Steinlager is akin to a “European style pilsner” as I think it was modelled on Heineken.
I have no idea what the “off flavours” @Tim refers to are. Off flavours are a result of bad brewing and not just flavours you don’t like in your idea of a style or your own taste. Emerson’s for example is a very well made lager but uses Riwaka hops so has that green pineapple taste which some love, some don’t.
It’s like saying NZ Sav Blanc has off flavours compared to an old world French one.
If you like the taste, drink it. If you don’t, don’t. But it’s not a bad beer if made with skill, just not to your taste. -
@Crucial said in Beer thread:
@MN5 said in Beer thread:
Calling a Steinlager a Pilsner is up there with calling a Tui a pale ale
In reality though Pilsner just means lager. Then there are styles. Steinlager is akin to a “European style pilsner” as I think it was modelled on Heineken.
@Crucial sorry but not quite...
A famous quote in brewing "A pilsner is a lager, but not all lagers are pilsners."There are some differences but those differences are quite subtle.
One of the coolest things in modern brewing is that New Zealand Pilsners have become a recognized style and are loved world wide, particularly in the US. Taking a traditional brewing style and using the unique hops found in Aotearoa, NZ Pilsners have become very popular.
"New Zealand Pilsners are a kiwi twist on a traditional Pilsner where the traditional herbal, spicy hops are replaced with tropical fruity NZ hops"
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@RoninWC said in Beer thread:
@Crucial said in Beer thread:
@MN5 said in Beer thread:
Calling a Steinlager a Pilsner is up there with calling a Tui a pale ale
In reality though Pilsner just means lager. Then there are styles. Steinlager is akin to a “European style pilsner” as I think it was modelled on Heineken.
@Crucial sorry but not quite...
A famous quote in brewing "A pilsner is a lager, but not all lagers are pilsners."There are some differences but those differences are quite subtle.
One of the coolest things in modern brewing is that New Zealand Pilsners have become a recognized style and are loved world wide, particularly in the US. Taking a traditional brewing style and using the unique hops found in Aotearoa, NZ Pilsners have become very popular.
"New Zealand Pilsners are a kiwi twist on a traditional Pilsner where the traditional herbal, spicy hops are replaced with tropical fruity NZ hops"
as in..there are amber and dark lagers (and pilsners are only pale lagers)? Asked from a position of currently sober ignorance.
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@nostrildamus said in Beer thread:
@RoninWC said in Beer thread:
@Crucial said in Beer thread:
@MN5 said in Beer thread:
Calling a Steinlager a Pilsner is up there with calling a Tui a pale ale
In reality though Pilsner just means lager. Then there are styles. Steinlager is akin to a “European style pilsner” as I think it was modelled on Heineken.
@Crucial sorry but not quite...
A famous quote in brewing "A pilsner is a lager, but not all lagers are pilsners."There are some differences but those differences are quite subtle.
One of the coolest things in modern brewing is that New Zealand Pilsners have become a recognized style and are loved world wide, particularly in the US. Taking a traditional brewing style and using the unique hops found in Aotearoa, NZ Pilsners have become very popular.
"New Zealand Pilsners are a kiwi twist on a traditional Pilsner where the traditional herbal, spicy hops are replaced with tropical fruity NZ hops"
as in..there are amber and dark lagers (and pilsners are only pale lagers)? Asked from a position of currently sober ignorance.
"Pilsners are a type of lager. Both are bottom-fermented, which means they both contain high levels of ethanol. However, while pilsners contain a lot of the bittering hops used to make traditional pilsner beer thus pilsners tend to have more hop-forward flavors, while lagers contain less or no hops at all. Pilsner also called pils, is originally from the city of Plzen in the Czech Republic and uses different yeast from lagers in their brewing."
Larger originated in Germany and come in three main types:
Light (with an alcohol content of 3%), medium (4-5%), and dark (6-8%)
Also, Larger can have fruit added such as what you see out of Belgium.Another key difference is the use of Pilsner Malt in Pilsners, obviously. Pilsner malt, and I use it quite a lot in my Hazy brews, is a light malt that imparts minimal colour and malty flavour to your beer. So these days Pilsner Malt get's used in a variety of types of beers due to its light colour and quite neutral flavour.
One last but subtle difference is the water profiles you can use when brewing. When comparing water from Pilsen in the Czech Republic versus say Munich, there is a bit of a difference with the Pilsen being a softer water profile.
However, when home brewing, you can use the same water profile to brew either a Pilsner or Larger in reality.
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@RoninWC said in Beer thread:
@nostrildamus said in Beer thread:
@RoninWC said in Beer thread:
@Crucial said in Beer thread:
@MN5 said in Beer thread:
Calling a Steinlager a Pilsner is up there with calling a Tui a pale ale
In reality though Pilsner just means lager. Then there are styles. Steinlager is akin to a “European style pilsner” as I think it was modelled on Heineken.
@Crucial sorry but not quite...
A famous quote in brewing "A pilsner is a lager, but not all lagers are pilsners."There are some differences but those differences are quite subtle.
One of the coolest things in modern brewing is that New Zealand Pilsners have become a recognized style and are loved world wide, particularly in the US. Taking a traditional brewing style and using the unique hops found in Aotearoa, NZ Pilsners have become very popular.
"New Zealand Pilsners are a kiwi twist on a traditional Pilsner where the traditional herbal, spicy hops are replaced with tropical fruity NZ hops"
as in..there are amber and dark lagers (and pilsners are only pale lagers)? Asked from a position of currently sober ignorance.
"Pilsners are a type of lager. Both are bottom-fermented, which means they both contain high levels of ethanol. However, while pilsners contain a lot of the bittering hops used to make traditional pilsner beer thus pilsners tend to have more hop-forward flavors, while lagers contain less or no hops at all. Pilsner also called pils, is originally from the city of Plzen in the Czech Republic and uses different yeast from lagers in their brewing."
Larger originated in Germany and come in three main types:
Light (with an alcohol content of 3%), medium (4-5%), and dark (6-8%)
Also, Larger can have fruit added such as what you see out of Belgium.Another key difference is the use of Pilsner Malt in Pilsners, obviously. Pilsner malt, and I use it quite a lot in my Hazy brews, is a light malt that imparts minimal colour and malty flavour to your beer. So these days Pilsner Malt get's used in a variety of types of beers due to its light colour and quite neutral flavour.
One last but subtle difference is the water profiles you can use when brewing. When comparing water from Pilsen in the Czech Republic versus say Munich, there is a bit of a difference with the Pilsen being a softer water profile.
However, when home brewing, you can use the same water profile to brew either a Pilsner or Larger in reality.
That tends to be more American style fruit beers than Belgian. I don't think I have ever seen a lager based fruit beer from Belgium although given the vast array of styles there they may exist.
Belgian fruit beers are usually on a Lambic, Saison or Brett base from my experience. -
@Kiwiwomble said in The hot takes and unpopular opinions:
@Kruse said in The hot takes and unpopular opinions:
UK vs NZ vs Aus pubs... I've come to the conclusion that there's shit ones, and good ones (with character) - in each country... but in each country, the "flavour" of the good/shit is slightly different.
In the UK - you get the corporate bland shit like Wetherspoons, Slug/Lettuce, All-Bar-One, etc. Even, to a lesser extent, the 'chain country pubs' - Harvesters was one, I think? "Hungry Horse"? Some others... those places in the countryside - that are big bland chain attempts at replicating the "good". And then the good - the classic village pubs, hitting your head on crossbeams every time you go for a piss. Sometimes a beer-garden on a canal.
NZ - it's nearly the reverse, in the North Island at least. Just off the top of my head - really shitty bland country pubs, with some farming tools on the wall in an attempt to be "character" - but really... shit beers on tap, and just... country-bogan. And a very few decent bars in some of the cities. Although I'm probably prejudiced, as most of the bars I frequent - in my 2 years back in-country, I'm already known to the staff, and typically get staff/hospo discount.
South Island - might be reversed again? Some classic country pubs - my recollection of Chch bars (admittedly-pre-earthquake) - was decidedly Slug/Lettuce/All-Bar-One-esqueAus - I don't have a wide experience... but my feel was more of a UK pattern.... plenty of shit "glossy/corporate bars" in towns, with some fucking cracker country pubs... and in Melbourne at least, some quirky fucking-random country-type-pubs in the middle of the city.
have to say, i cant think of too many chains or corporate pubs in Aus, all seem independent (around me anyway), so they either are or they're putting in some effort to hide the fact they are part of a chain
and i love a craft beer pub, will often have a different schooner with each round...when i just want to drink the same beer all night i'll buy a slab and drink at home
There’s a time and place for different beers. I’ll be fucked if I’m gonna spend north of $12-13 for a Heineken at the pub which I’ve had about 10,000 times in my life. But the potential future father in law left a whole bunch in my fridge recently after a visit and they went down a treat after a hard day in the garden. Anything less than ice cold and they’re pretty grim though.
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@Windows97 said in The hot takes and unpopular opinions:
Craft beer pubs - I just hate them. The beer is simply more expensive than a "normal" pub and for some reason because they're a "craft beer" place the food is overpriced as well.
You get charged restaurant prices for beer which is slightly better than normal and restaurant prices for what is little more than pub quality food...
I could literally pay a few bucks more and go to a nice restaurant where there's quality food and a good selection of alcohol or if I want a pub meal just go to a normal pub where I get much better value for money.
So that's what I do, I either go to a restaurant or a pub and craft beer places can kiss my *ss.
Probably one for the beer thread but 'value for money' with craft beer is totally subjective and IMO quite dependent on the styles you like.
If you just want 'beer' then of course paying a small independent bar a 'high' price for a lager or standard pale ale is going to feel like a rip off. However, if you want to try a 'one off' or something you cant usually find at the supermarket, or a fresh IPA etc then the prices are no worse than paying $10 for some pish at a pub. In fact the markup is much less. -
@Crucial said in The hot takes and unpopular opinions:
Probably one for the beer thread but 'value for money' with craft beer is totally subjective and IMO quite dependent on the styles you like.
I think the Craft beer industry is trying to create a niche where they can charge more, and a reasonable amount more, I mean people pay north of $30 for a bottle of wine, you can pay $10+ for a single can of craft beer, my preferred beer is $21.95 (Ratrod) for 6...gone are the days I'd buy a doz for $19.99!
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@taniwharugby said in The hot takes and unpopular opinions:
@Crucial said in The hot takes and unpopular opinions:
Probably one for the beer thread but 'value for money' with craft beer is totally subjective and IMO quite dependent on the styles you like.
I think
the Craft beerindustry is trying to create a niche where they can charge more,FIFY, seriously...thats what business does generally
I will say beer is just more expensive in Aus, might be why people are happy to go to the pub rather than round to someones house, you've got to be drinking something pretty average (or buying in bulk) to be paying less than $4-6 a can from the bottle shop, so that gap to be going somewhere you have some atmosphere, get a feed, watch some footy kind of seems less of a problem
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@Kiwiwomble said in The hot takes and unpopular opinions:
@taniwharugby said in The hot takes and unpopular opinions:
@Crucial said in The hot takes and unpopular opinions:
Probably one for the beer thread but 'value for money' with craft beer is totally subjective and IMO quite dependent on the styles you like.
I think
the Craft beerindustry is trying to create a niche where they can charge more,FIFY, seriously...thats what business does generally
I will say beer is just more expensive in Aus, might be why people are happy to go to the pub rather than round to someones house, you've got to be drinking something pretty average (or buying in bulk) to be paying less than $4-6 a can from the bottle shop, so that gap to be going somewhere you have some atmosphere, get a feed, watch some footy kind of seems less of a problem
Mate, there's a lot of pretty good "average" beers out there for cheaper than that! For < $60 per case ($2.50 each for those without a calculator), you can get Kirin (my staple), Asahi, any of the Asian lagers, James Squire's range, Tui, 4 Pines range, Single Fin etc
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@voodoo i did say unless buying in bulk, i dont often buy more than a couple of 6 packs at a time, largely because my little townhouse doesn't have anywhere to put it but also id prefer to have a couple of different ones
also, most of the ones you mention are perfectly good but all average/mainstream
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@Kiwiwomble said in The hot takes and unpopular opinions:
@voodoo i did say unless buying in bulk, i dont often buy more than a couple of 6 packs at a time, largely because my little townhouse doesn't have anywhere to put it but also id prefer to have a couple of different ones
also, most of the ones you mention are perfectly good but all average/mainstream
The term you're looking for is "normal"...
Missed the bulk-buy piece, quite amazing the rort that is 6-pack pricing!
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@voodoo we were talking about craft beers
edit:....cant remember the last time i searched for beer as will just go to the bottleshop and pick out of what they have in stock....this just showed up in my feed
edit 2:...shit...and this
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Best bang for buck in NZ at the moment if you like the style is Macs 'Showboat' Hazy. The mid price bracket (Macs, Monteiths, BRB etc) attempts at craft styles usually fall well short as ingredients in = quality out and the price point they aim for means less flavour etc. Some are drinkable and I would prefer them to a 'cheap' beer but this Showboat one has hit a taste level (if not alcohol level) of many bog standard craft hazys out there. I would even go as far as to say that in a blind tasting it would come out well ahead of many.
You get an instant fruity hoppy smell and taste that lasts. The can is ugly AF though and looks 'girly' -
@Kiwiwomble point is, beer has been traditionally seen as a much cheaper alternative, but they have decided with the craft beer they can start moving cost up closer to the wine side of things (has been happening for many years TBF) as the guys at a craft brewer in Rorotua said as much when I was doing a tasting there many years back.
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@Kiwiwomble said in The hot takes and unpopular opinions:
@Kruse said in The hot takes and unpopular opinions:
UK vs NZ vs Aus pubs... I've come to the conclusion that there's shit ones, and good ones (with character) - in each country... but in each country, the "flavour" of the good/shit is slightly different.
In the UK - you get the corporate bland shit like Wetherspoons, Slug/Lettuce, All-Bar-One, etc. Even, to a lesser extent, the 'chain country pubs' - Harvesters was one, I think? "Hungry Horse"? Some others... those places in the countryside - that are big bland chain attempts at replicating the "good". And then the good - the classic village pubs, hitting your head on crossbeams every time you go for a piss. Sometimes a beer-garden on a canal.
NZ - it's nearly the reverse, in the North Island at least. Just off the top of my head - really shitty bland country pubs, with some farming tools on the wall in an attempt to be "character" - but really... shit beers on tap, and just... country-bogan. And a very few decent bars in some of the cities. Although I'm probably prejudiced, as most of the bars I frequent - in my 2 years back in-country, I'm already known to the staff, and typically get staff/hospo discount.
South Island - might be reversed again? Some classic country pubs - my recollection of Chch bars (admittedly-pre-earthquake) - was decidedly Slug/Lettuce/All-Bar-One-esqueAus - I don't have a wide experience... but my feel was more of a UK pattern.... plenty of shit "glossy/corporate bars" in towns, with some fucking cracker country pubs... and in Melbourne at least, some quirky fucking-random country-type-pubs in the middle of the city.
have to say, i cant think of too many chains or corporate pubs in Aus, all seem independent (around me anyway), so they either are or they're putting in some effort to hide the fact they are part of a chain
Between ALH and Ausvenue they'd own about 500 I'm guessing? Given there's reportedly 6,000 in Australia, that's still a lot of independents.
and i love a craft beer pub, will often have a different schooner with each round...when i just want to drink the same beer all night i'll buy a slab and drink at home
Probably my favourite local is the Durham. Does good food, Simpsons trivia nights etc. and themed events, e.g.
