All Blacks vs Boks
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Was the shitty lineout due to Harpo or was it more a team effort? The first lineout was one of the most panicked and disjointed you'll ever see.
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I was actually wondering if some of the blame should be directed to Jantjes (who seldom seems to be a great backline manager to me) or whether he simply had no options. Considering the great speed of the Boks wings they didn't seem to use them very well.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks vs Boks:
So Sops to 10, BB to 15 and Dmac to 14?
Why have a midget as a winger? He really only is a FB at this point of time. He needs space to operate.
@broughie I am not so sure any more that DM needs space to operate. He did some clever(?) stuff in crowded areas up close and he has super quick reflexes. If anything, when he has time to think he makes errors. I think he is a 10 but too young and small at this level.
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@broughie I am not so sure any more that DM needs space to operate. He did some clever(?) stuff in crowded areas up close and he has super quick reflexes. If anything, when he has time to think he makes errors. I think he is a 10 but too young and small at this level.
@nostrildamus i don't think his size is a deal-breaker. he doesn't shirk contact, and usually makes his tackles. dagg is not a great tackler, and i remember pretty recently dagg himself standing up J Barrett one on one to score very easily.
it's a definite negative occasionally in contact, and with the high ball if the kick is spot on - but it's not enough to rule him out if the other parts of his game are good enough - and i think they are, potentially at least.
same thing with all players - topically, NMS - not being super quick and a bit of a midget himself. those are downsides for a winger, no doubt. but the good things he brings can outweigh them. -
@broughie said in All Blacks vs Boks:
f your 29 odd and haven't cemented a place as an AB there is something missing.
Or, if you can only play in Richie's position and you are not Richie/AB captain, then you are not Richie.
@nostrildamus Fair point but he was not Cane also, Richies deputy for a while.
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@taniwharugby Did you see at 1:10 when A Smith left W Smith hanging for a handshake?
Cool to see the Boks there in the end ... they certainly shower quicker than the ABs.
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@taniwharugby Did you see at 1:10 when A Smith left W Smith hanging for a handshake?
Cool to see the Boks there in the end ... they certainly shower quicker than the ABs.
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@taniwharugby Did you see at 1:10 when A Smith left W Smith hanging for a handshake?
Cool to see the Boks there in the end ... they certainly shower quicker than the ABs.
Probably wanted to wash the stench of that performance off.
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I didn't think things could get worse for South Africa after losses in the last couple of years to Italy and Japan but they have. Embarrassing scoreline for them.
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@booboo Not one complaint so far, I think?
I think he made a huge error in the Ioane try.
Where Smith took the quick tap from was a joke.
No wonder there was huge space to kick into if the ref allows an illegal quick tap, so quick not not even Nig nor Aaron's brain could successfully compute where the line of the offence was. What chance does the defensive wing/fullback have to mentally compute this and then plug the space.
This could almost be a copy and paste from one of my posts in the 'grind your gears thread'. It really grinds my gears.
@Rapido said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@booboo Not one complaint so far, I think?
I think he made a huge error in the Ioane try.
Where Smith took the quick tap from was a joke.
You mean directly behind the ref where the penalty was blown?
https://www.facebook.com/AllBlacks/videos/10154978954416915/
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@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@taniwharugby Did you see at 1:10 when A Smith left W Smith hanging for a handshake?
Cool to see the Boks there in the end ... they certainly shower quicker than the ABs.
Probably wanted to wash the stench of that performance off.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@taniwharugby Did you see at 1:10 when A Smith left W Smith hanging for a handshake?
Cool to see the Boks there in the end ... they certainly shower quicker than the ABs.
Probably wanted to wash the stench of that performance off.
I read the Smith sentence and then was confused, A Smith had an awesome game, then clicked, right, it's the Boks performance you were meaning!
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@Rapido said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@booboo Not one complaint so far, I think?
I think he made a huge error in the Ioane try.
Where Smith took the quick tap from was a joke.
You mean directly behind the ref where the penalty was blown?
https://www.facebook.com/AllBlacks/videos/10154978954416915/
@Virgil said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Rapido said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@booboo Not one complaint so far, I think?
I think he made a huge error in the Ioane try.
Where Smith took the quick tap from was a joke.
You mean directly behind the ref where the penalty was blown?
https://www.facebook.com/AllBlacks/videos/10154978954416915/
Owens Could be standing in Timbuktu when he blows the whistle for all its relevance , the penalty spot is at the bottom of that ruck. Smith running 5m parellel to take a quick tap in the sweet fresh air near Owens feet, rather than taking a quick tap in line with the yet to be marked spot .... without the obstacle of a fucking ruck in his way meant he got an unfair try creating advantage.
Poor reffing, panicked by Smith's quick reaction.
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@Virgil said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Rapido said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@booboo Not one complaint so far, I think?
I think he made a huge error in the Ioane try.
Where Smith took the quick tap from was a joke.
You mean directly behind the ref where the penalty was blown?
https://www.facebook.com/AllBlacks/videos/10154978954416915/
Owens Could be standing in Timbuktu when he blows the whistle for all its relevance , the penalty spot is at the bottom of that ruck. Smith running 5m parellel to take a quick tap in the sweet fresh air near Owens feet, rather than taking a quick tap in line with the yet to be marked spot .... without the obstacle of a fucking ruck in his way meant he got an unfair try creating advantage.
Poor reffing, panicked by Smith's quick reaction.
Don't be so pedantic. It's like Wayne Erickson or Stuart Dickinson. One metre here or there was hardly the difference between a try or not.
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@Virgil said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Rapido said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@booboo Not one complaint so far, I think?
I think he made a huge error in the Ioane try.
Where Smith took the quick tap from was a joke.
You mean directly behind the ref where the penalty was blown?
https://www.facebook.com/AllBlacks/videos/10154978954416915/
Owens Could be standing in Timbuktu when he blows the whistle for all its relevance , the penalty spot is at the bottom of that ruck. Smith running 5m parellel to take a quick tap in the sweet fresh air near Owens feet, rather than taking a quick tap in line with the yet to be marked spot .... without the obstacle of a fucking ruck in his way meant he got an unfair try creating advantage.
Poor reffing, panicked by Smith's quick reaction.
@Rapido Can't agree. If quick taps are going to be an option from a penalty, then there should be some latitude in where they are taken to allow it to be "quick". Think Owens got the right balance of speed/proximity.
Don't like it? Don't give away penalties.
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@Virgil said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Rapido said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@booboo Not one complaint so far, I think?
I think he made a huge error in the Ioane try.
Where Smith took the quick tap from was a joke.
You mean directly behind the ref where the penalty was blown?
https://www.facebook.com/AllBlacks/videos/10154978954416915/
Owens Could be standing in Timbuktu when he blows the whistle for all its relevance , the penalty spot is at the bottom of that ruck. Smith running 5m parellel to take a quick tap in the sweet fresh air near Owens feet, rather than taking a quick tap in line with the yet to be marked spot .... without the obstacle of a fucking ruck in his way meant he got an unfair try creating advantage.
Poor reffing, panicked by Smith's quick reaction.
@Rapido said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Virgil said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Rapido said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@booboo Not one complaint so far, I think?
I think he made a huge error in the Ioane try.
Where Smith took the quick tap from was a joke.
You mean directly behind the ref where the penalty was blown?
https://www.facebook.com/AllBlacks/videos/10154978954416915/
Owens Could be standing in Timbuktu when he blows the whistle for all its relevance , the penalty spot is at the bottom of that ruck. Smith running 5m parellel to take a quick tap in the sweet fresh air near Owens feet, rather than taking a quick tap in line with the yet to be marked spot .... without the obstacle of a fucking ruck in his way meant he got an unfair try creating advantage.
Poor reffing, panicked by Smith's quick reaction.
Without researching I'm pretty certain it is allowable under the laws to take a kick tap directly behind the ref's feet.
No need to get all Meg Marshall and over impartial on it all.
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@Rapido Can't agree. If quick taps are going to be an option from a penalty, then there should be some latitude in where they are taken to allow it to be "quick". Think Owens got the right balance of speed/proximity.
Don't like it? Don't give away penalties.
@TeWaio said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Rapido Can't agree. If quick taps are going to be an option from a penalty, then there should be some latitude in where they are taken to allow it to be "quick". Think Owens got the right balance of speed/proximity.
Don't like it? Don't give away penalties.
A I said earlier in the thread a quick tap wasn't technically a legal option from that penalty as no mark had been made. But that has been getting ignored for 20 years since the lilly-livered refs of the late 90s ignored it on the interests of 55 v 45 S12 entertainment. While I'd gladly see that applied to the letter of the law I know I'd be pissing in the wind. The piss-taking was Smith running 5m infield to the nice clear unobstructed space. Not even following the modern norm.
Smith had the 'right' to take a quick tap under modern interpretations. But he stuffed it up. He should have been whistled back. It's his fault. Whether Smith took the tap in that strange place because he wasn't thinking clearly enough to know the line of the penalty spot, or because that open space was more advantageous than behind the cluttered ruck? I don't know.
The Boks had the right to expect Owens to enforce the rule properly.
Do they allow goal kickers to kick it from roughly within a 5m radius of the spot, whatever is most convenient.
Just apply the rules. And these infuriating 'interpretation' discussions are moot.
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@TeWaio said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Rapido Can't agree. If quick taps are going to be an option from a penalty, then there should be some latitude in where they are taken to allow it to be "quick". Think Owens got the right balance of speed/proximity.
Don't like it? Don't give away penalties.
A I said earlier in the thread a quick tap wasn't technically a legal option from that penalty as no mark had been made. But that has been getting ignored for 20 years since the lilly-livered refs of the late 90s ignored it on the interests of 55 v 45 S12 entertainment. While I'd gladly see that applied to the letter of the law I know I'd be pissing in the wind. The piss-taking was Smith running 5m infield to the nice clear unobstructed space. Not even following the modern norm.
Smith had the 'right' to take a quick tap under modern interpretations. But he stuffed it up. He should have been whistled back. It's his fault. Whether Smith took the tap in that strange place because he wasn't thinking clearly enough to know the line of the penalty spot, or because that open space was more advantageous than behind the cluttered ruck? I don't know.
The Boks had the right to expect Owens to enforce the rule properly.
Do they allow goal kickers to kick it from roughly within a 5m radius of the spot, whatever is most convenient.
Just apply the rules. And these infuriating 'interpretation' discussions are moot.
@Rapido said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@TeWaio said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Rapido Can't agree. If quick taps are going to be an option from a penalty, then there should be some latitude in where they are taken to allow it to be "quick". Think Owens got the right balance of speed/proximity.
Don't like it? Don't give away penalties.
A I said earlier in the thread a quick tap wasn't technically a legal option from that penalty as no mark had been made. But that has been getting ignored for 20 years since the lilly-livered refs of the late 90s ignored it on the interests of 55 v 45 S12 entertainment. While I'd gladly see that applied to the letter of the law I know I'd be pissing in the wind. The piss-taking was Smith running 5m infield to the nice clear unobstructed space. Not even following the modern norm.
Smith had the 'right' to take a quick tap under modern interpretations. But he stuffed it up. He should have been whistled back. It's his fault. Whether Smith took the tap in that strange place because he wasn't thinking clearly enough to know the line of the penalty spot, or because that open space was more advantageous than behind the cluttered ruck? I don't know.
The Boks had the right to expect Owens to enforce the rule properly.
Do they allow goal kickers to kick it from roughly within a 5m radius of the spot, whatever is most convenient.
Just apply the rules. And these infuriating 'interpretation' discussions are moot.
I'm lost. I've watched the video five times, trying to imagine that it's the Springboks who took the tap, and I still can't see what you are going on about.
You seem to want a new interpretation of the law, is that your point? I say that, because there are no rules in rugby - just laws.
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@TeWaio said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Rapido Can't agree. If quick taps are going to be an option from a penalty, then there should be some latitude in where they are taken to allow it to be "quick". Think Owens got the right balance of speed/proximity.
Don't like it? Don't give away penalties.
A I said earlier in the thread a quick tap wasn't technically a legal option from that penalty as no mark had been made. But that has been getting ignored for 20 years since the lilly-livered refs of the late 90s ignored it on the interests of 55 v 45 S12 entertainment. While I'd gladly see that applied to the letter of the law I know I'd be pissing in the wind. The piss-taking was Smith running 5m infield to the nice clear unobstructed space. Not even following the modern norm.
Smith had the 'right' to take a quick tap under modern interpretations. But he stuffed it up. He should have been whistled back. It's his fault. Whether Smith took the tap in that strange place because he wasn't thinking clearly enough to know the line of the penalty spot, or because that open space was more advantageous than behind the cluttered ruck? I don't know.
The Boks had the right to expect Owens to enforce the rule properly.
Do they allow goal kickers to kick it from roughly within a 5m radius of the spot, whatever is most convenient.
Just apply the rules. And these infuriating 'interpretation' discussions are moot.
@Rapido said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@TeWaio said in All Blacks vs Boks:
@Rapido Can't agree. If quick taps are going to be an option from a penalty, then there should be some latitude in where they are taken to allow it to be "quick". Think Owens got the right balance of speed/proximity.
Don't like it? Don't give away penalties.
A I said earlier in the thread a quick tap wasn't technically a legal option from that penalty as no mark had been made. But that has been getting ignored for 20 years since the lilly-livered refs of the late 90s ignored it on the interests of 55 v 45 S12 entertainment. While I'd gladly see that applied to the letter of the law I know I'd be pissing in the wind. The piss-taking was Smith running 5m infield to the nice clear unobstructed space. Not even following the modern norm.
Smith had the 'right' to take a quick tap under modern interpretations. But he stuffed it up. He should have been whistled back. It's his fault. Whether Smith took the tap in that strange place because he wasn't thinking clearly enough to know the line of the penalty spot, or because that open space was more advantageous than behind the cluttered ruck? I don't know.
The Boks had the right to expect Owens to enforce the rule properly.
Do they allow goal kickers to kick it from roughly within a 5m radius of the spot, whatever is most convenient.
Just apply the rules. And these infuriating 'interpretation' discussions are moot.
No.
I think you are wrong. Just don't know where to look to find it.
I'm pretty reasonably fairly certain that you can take a quick tap at the referee's feet in lieu of him making a mark.
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The tap has to be taken from the Mark, or from behind it.
However there is definitely nothing in the law that says the player has to wait for the ref to make the Mark before he can take it. We know this from the definitions and also because there is a special provision in 21.7 that states if the opposition aren't back 10m then the second PK cannot be taken before the ref makes the Mark. If this were true of all PKs then there's no need to state it as a special case.
Equally though, the player can't rush to the referee and take it there. The Mark is where the offence occurred (unless stated otherwise in the relevant law).
Both of those ideas are myths that you hear occasionally.
Now as for whether Smith is ok where he took it from its debatable. The Mark is where the offence took place, or in the ruck.
I don't accept that he's 5 metres from the Mark; which seems like hyperbole to make a point. However he's also clearly not exactly in line with it either. He's gone to the side by about a metre give or take. Is that OK? Maybe, maybe not. I can see arguments either way for it being OK. It's marginal.
What I do know is that if there is one ref in the world who is likely to be fine with it it's Owens. Owens is pretty clearly regarded by WR as the best ref around currently, which suggests they are probably fine with it too.
YMMV of course.
