Exodus 2018
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I usually like Gregor Paul's articles and even the videos he does with Pat McKendry... But that article... I keep getting angrier the more I think about it. I just don't get it at all.
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@bones said in Exodus 2018:
@chris-b good spot, potential welcome back to Mr Saili. Well worth the deal.
Winston Stanley is at harlequins aswell I believe
@family-man said in Exodus 2018:
@bones said in Exodus 2018:
@chris-b good spot, potential welcome back to Mr Saili. Well worth the deal.
Winston Stanley is at harlequins aswell I believe
Midfield issues post WC solved in the stroke of a pen!
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@bones said in Exodus 2018:
@chris-b good spot, potential welcome back to Mr Saili. Well worth the deal.
Winston Stanley is at harlequins aswell I believe
@family-man said in Exodus 2018:
@bones said in Exodus 2018:
@chris-b good spot, potential welcome back to Mr Saili. Well worth the deal.
Winston Stanley is at harlequins aswell I believe
He is, but he's a Samoan!
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The Tew article has been picked up by the Sneering Pommy media brigade the response is as expected.
We rape the islands etc, so only getting what we deserve ... we don't get irony etc etc.
@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
The Tew article has been picked up by the Sneering Pommy media brigade the response is as expected.
We rape the islands etc, so only getting what we deserve ... we don't get irony etc etc.
You didn't suss that the press were being ironic?
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Disappointed that the NZRU have chosen to go with a Premiership club in a club-run competition.
It’s been my view that alliances and collaboration should be happening between union run clubs and competitions. This is the NZRU supping with the devil. Hope they’ve brought a long spoon.
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@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
The Tew article has been picked up by the Sneering Pommy media brigade the response is as expected.
We rape the islands etc, so only getting what we deserve ... we don't get irony etc etc.
You didn't suss that the press were being ironic?
@catogrande said in Exodus 2018:
@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
The Tew article has been picked up by the Sneering Pommy media brigade the response is as expected.
We rape the islands etc, so only getting what we deserve ... we don't get irony etc etc.
You didn't suss that the press were being ironic?
I don't even know whose being ironic anymore.
I know it's not s fucking free ride that I've already paid though
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Disappointed that the NZRU have chosen to go with a Premiership club in a club-run competition.
It’s been my view that alliances and collaboration should be happening between union run clubs and competitions. This is the NZRU supping with the devil. Hope they’ve brought a long spoon.
@pot-hale said in Exodus 2018:
Disappointed that the NZRU have chosen to go with a Premiership club in a club-run competition.
It’s been my view that alliances and collaboration should be happening between union run clubs and competitions. This is the NZRU supping with the devil. Hope they’ve brought a long spoon.
But that idea of the English and French clubs being the Devil really only relates to their relationships with their own unions. For the NZRFU I don’t see that they would see any differential between the clubs and say the provinces.
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I wonder whether they'll try negotiating a deal with a French club as well. The last few years, AB coaches have attended and assisted at training sessions from ASM Clermont; not sure whether there are connections with other French clubs.
Or maybe a Welsh or Irish PRO14 club?
Simon Manix and Carl Hayman are coaching at Pau. I would love the shit out of that arrangement.
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@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
The Tew article has been picked up by the Sneering Pommy media brigade the response is as expected.
We rape the islands etc, so only getting what we deserve ... we don't get irony etc etc.
You didn't suss that the press were being ironic?
@catogrande said in Exodus 2018:
@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
The Tew article has been picked up by the Sneering Pommy media brigade the response is as expected.
We rape the islands etc, so only getting what we deserve ... we don't get irony etc etc.
You didn't suss that the press were being ironic?
We're Kiwis. We don't get irony.
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Current Exodus 2018 First XV :
- Bird (Chiefs -> Racing 92)
- Thomson (Hurricanes -> Scarlets)
- Kaino (Blues -> Toulouse)
- Shields (Hurricanes -> Wasps)
- Messam (Chiefs -> Toulon)
- Sopoaga (Highlanders -> Wasps)
- Nanai-Williams (Chiefs -> Clermont)
- Ngatai (Chiefs -> Lyon OU)
- Moala (Blues -> Clermont)
- Tamanivalu (Crusaders -> Bordeaux-Bègles)
- West (Hurricanes -> La Rochelle)
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@catogrande said in Exodus 2018:
@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
The Tew article has been picked up by the Sneering Pommy media brigade the response is as expected.
We rape the islands etc, so only getting what we deserve ... we don't get irony etc etc.
You didn't suss that the press were being ironic?
We're Kiwis. We don't get irony.
@booboo said in Exodus 2018:
@catogrande said in Exodus 2018:
@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
The Tew article has been picked up by the Sneering Pommy media brigade the response is as expected.
We rape the islands etc, so only getting what we deserve ... we don't get irony etc etc.
You didn't suss that the press were being ironic?
We're Kiwis. We don't get irony.
I meant it ironically. Wait. What?
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@booboo said in Exodus 2018:
@catogrande said in Exodus 2018:
@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
The Tew article has been picked up by the Sneering Pommy media brigade the response is as expected.
We rape the islands etc, so only getting what we deserve ... we don't get irony etc etc.
You didn't suss that the press were being ironic?
We're Kiwis. We don't get irony.
I meant it ironically. Wait. What?
@catogrande it'd be like if you had 10,000 spoons and all you need was a knife, but then the next day, you needed a spoon but only had a knife, surely that'd be ironic?
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@catogrande it'd be like if you had 10,000 spoons and all you need was a knife, but then the next day, you needed a spoon but only had a knife, surely that'd be ironic?
@taniwharugby so now I’m having irony explained by a Kiwi. Now that is, well ironic really.
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Current Exodus 2018 First XV :
- Bird (Chiefs -> Racing 92)
- Thomson (Hurricanes -> Scarlets)
- Kaino (Blues -> Toulouse)
- Shields (Hurricanes -> Wasps)
- Messam (Chiefs -> Toulon)
- Sopoaga (Highlanders -> Wasps)
- Nanai-Williams (Chiefs -> Clermont)
- Ngatai (Chiefs -> Lyon OU)
- Moala (Blues -> Clermont)
- Tamanivalu (Crusaders -> Bordeaux-Bègles)
- West (Hurricanes -> La Rochelle)
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So question with this deal in place with the Harlequins. Would it be safe to assume that the Harlequins are the only team NZR could strike a deal with in the English Premiership? Therefore that would be a key benefit for the Harlequins - they can't sign NZ based players long term (e.g. greater than 2 years) - but they are the preferred choice (in that particular competition) if NZ based players want to get some cash.
NZR would strike similar deals with teams in other competitions - especially the French one..... -
@pot-hale said in Exodus 2018:
Disappointed that the NZRU have chosen to go with a Premiership club in a club-run competition.
It’s been my view that alliances and collaboration should be happening between union run clubs and competitions. This is the NZRU supping with the devil. Hope they’ve brought a long spoon.
But that idea of the English and French clubs being the Devil really only relates to their relationships with their own unions. For the NZRFU I don’t see that they would see any differential between the clubs and say the provinces.
@catogrande said in Exodus 2018:
@pot-hale said in Exodus 2018:
Disappointed that the NZRU have chosen to go with a Premiership club in a club-run competition.
It’s been my view that alliances and collaboration should be happening between union run clubs and competitions. This is the NZRU supping with the devil. Hope they’ve brought a long spoon.
But that idea of the English and French clubs being the Devil really only relates to their relationships with their own unions. For the NZRFU I don’t see that they would see any differential between the clubs and say the provinces.
Yes you’re right.
I withdraw my remark. -
@stargazer no you're right
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Ben Kay talking up Brad Shields in the Sunday paper.
The original article is behind The Times paywall if anyone has access to it.
BEN KAY
March 2 2018, 5:00pm, The Times
England don’t need to change now... but Eddie Jones should pick Brad Shields for Rugby World Cup
Ben KayIf you listen to the debate, bordering on hysteria, that has raged since England’s defeat by Scotland at Murrayfield, Eddie Jones needs to change up to a quarter of his team for the game away to France next Saturday. “Sack Dylan Hartley as captain,” they say. “Ditch Mike Brown. Move Chris Robshaw back to blind side or drop him altogether. Bring in Ben Te’o. Start Richard Wigglesworth. Maro Itoje is off his game.” And so on.
Someone even started a poll asking whether Jones should resign. After 24 wins from 26 games? Ridiculous.
On Tuesday morning, I was asked, along with my colleagues at The Times, to select my starting XV to play France and my XV to play New Zealand in a possible 2019 World Cup semi-final.
For the France game I selected exactly the same line-up that was defeated by Scotland. I know from personal experience with England post-2003 that the moment a coach becomes reactive in his selection is the moment that the team lose their direction. That team deserve the chance to prove that Scotland was a one-off bad day.
Casting my mind further ahead to my team for the World Cup, I put down Brad Shields at blind-side flanker. If you look at the areas England will look to strengthen over the next 18 months, then Shields may well prove to be the answer.
Shields is not even playing in England yet and he does not join Wasps until next season, so will have less than one club campaign to force his way into the national set-up. But we know that Jones is keen and the big-bearded Kiwi (with English parents) would bring something to the England back row that has been missing.
Super Rugby does not always prepare players for the Aviva Premiership or the international game because of the contrasting styles. Shields, though, has the attributes to adapt and also the skill set to bring something different to the table for England. He is one of those players who seems to have boundless energy and is able to operate at high intensity; he can go through the gears quickly to create opportunities. He has a natural rugby brain and vision; he is a good distributor of the ball in the wide open channels, which makes him a fantastic link player. He reminds me of George Smith in that regard and in the explosive power and footwork that he brings as a carrier around the edge of the breakdown.
When his team do not have a lot of momentum, he has the strength to pick and go and drive them on to the front foot. Courtney Lawes is a good carrier, but in the loose. Robshaw can pick and go but he is not explosive. If England had Billy Vunipola or Nathan Hughes running off that initial drive from Shields, they would have a platform upon which to play. Shields can use his combination of power and good footwork to knock the guard defence off balance and then a quick pass to Vunipola running at full tilt against a defence rocking back on their heels and half the battle is won.
Shields is also very strong over the ball and a World Cup back row of him and Vunipola, with Sam Underhill as a defensive tackling and breakdown presence, strikes me as being ideal.
When it comes to the France game, I can see Jones making the odd tactical change: Joe Marler to scrummage against Rabah Slimani, perhaps, or a 10-12 combination of Owen Farrell and Te’o to combat the physicality of Mathieu Bastareaud.
But Jones can explain a tactical shift to the players; they may have already been expecting it. What he cannot be seen to do is to undermine the vision of where this team will be in 2019 that he has sold to the players. To make wholesale changes would do that.
Apart from anything else, Jones trotted out his usual line after the defeat that as coach it was his responsibility. To axe Brown or Hartley would make it the players’ fault.
The England cricket team in the 1990s could never get their selection strategy right, they were always chasing their tail. The same happened with the England team I played in after 2003. Andy Robinson promoted players and then dropped them after a defeat; it was always reactive and Jones has been very strong as a proactive selector.
The temptation is always there to make changes because England have the luxury of such a deep player pool and there will always be somebody outside the squad who is playing well and being championed for a call-up.
Heyneke Meyer, the former South Africa coach, once said to me when he was in charge at Leicester Tigers that he hated dropping players after a bad game. He wanted to give them a chance to put it right but also, further down the track, he felt it would have a negative impact on the player’s mindset the next time that he was picked.
England will have been through every reason why last week’s performance wasn’t acceptable but selection is about the coach showing faith in his players and in the vision that he has laid out for the team.
On the subject of Hartley, he did not have a great game in Scotland and when England are struggling the sight of the captain leaving the field early reinforces the impression that they are a team without enough leaders.
People have said that Farrell should be captain because he is on the field at the end of the game, which is a flawed argument because he takes over the captaincy then anyway. So why change something just so he can be captain from the start?
Most of an England captain’s responsibilities come before the game, in galvanising the squad, acting as a conduit between coaches and players, dealing with the media. Farrell does not need all that on top of being the chief playmaker.
England do not need to make kneejerk reactions as it would risk shunting them off course.
