Exodus 2018
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@catogrande said in Exodus 2018:
I thought at the time that was a reckless post by @antipodean I hope he’s getting the seasoning ready
I'm intrigued about the logistics.
@bones said in Exodus 2018:
@catogrande said in Exodus 2018:
I thought at the time that was a reckless post by @antipodean I hope he’s getting the seasoning ready
I'm intrigued about the logistics.
Like whether he plans to eat it on or off the bone?
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But the contract would be illegal under World Rugby rules, that's the problem. Not under employment law, I have no idea about that, but under WR law. Contacts are only binding if they are legal, I don't think that clause is legal, at all. The NZRU is breaking WR rules by putting a clause in a contract that forbids a player being released for an international team he is qualified for. If push came to shove NZRU would have to back down, and that is why I don't think they'll test it, because they use that clause to keep dual nationals that haven't been captured inside SR squads. And there are a lot of SR players in that boat for the Pacific Islands.
@machpants said in Exodus 2018:
But the contract would be illegal under World Rugby rules, that's the problem.
Nope. Check the Regs
*Player availability in circumstances of dual eligibility
9.38 When a Union enters into a written agreement with a Player that contemplates the Player representing that Union at senior or next Senior Fifteen-A-Side National Representative Team level (whether at fifteen-aside or seven-a-side Rugby), the Union may seek the Player’s written agreement that the Player shall not be available for selection, attendance and/or appearance in a National Representative Team or National Squad of another Union during the term of that written agreement, including any extension thereof, provided that, prior to the execution of any such written agreement, the following conditions were satisfied:
(a) The Player had reached the age of majority. For the purposes of the Regulation(s), the age of majority shall be deemed to be acquired by a Player on his 18th birthday.
(b) Pursuant to Regulation 8, the Player was eligible to represent the senior or next senior National Representative Team of the Union with which he has entered into the written agreement and at least one other Union, (i.e., as a minimum requirement the Player had dual Union eligibility status).
(c) The Player had not represented the senior or next senior National Representative Team of any Union in any of the Matches or Tours specified in Regulation 8.3.
(d) As evidenced by completion of the standard form certification set out in Attachment 1, the Player received independent legal advice on the terms of the written agreement. In particular, the fact that in signing the written agreement the Player was acknowledging and accepting that during the course of the written agreement, and any extension thereof, he was foregoing his right to represent the senior or next senior National Representative Team of any other Union for which he may be eligible.
If, subject to compliance with the conditions set out in this Regulation 9.38, a Player’s written agreement so provides, then that Player shall not be available for selection, attendance and/or appearance in a National Representative Team or National Squad of another Union during the term of the written agreement, or any extension thereof and during such period the Union with whom the Player is contracted shall have no obligation to release the Player to another Union.*
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Just let Sheilds go already..just in terms of a young guy coming through,just wanna get some thoughts on Shannon Frizell who is with the Highlanders quite a unit at 6’5 and 108kgs I was very impressed with this guy playing for Ta$man last year and he looked extra good against the Brumbies last weekend..maybe one for the future..?
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@nepia said in Exodus 2018:
@steven-harris said in Exodus 2018:
Shannon Frizell
Is he qualified for NZ?
I understand from the article below, that he came to NZ on a Ta$man Mako development contract in 2015. So he meets or he will meet the 3-year residency requirement this year. Just don't know from which month.
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@machpants said in Exodus 2018:
But the contract would be illegal under World Rugby rules, that's the problem.
Nope. Check the Regs
*Player availability in circumstances of dual eligibility
9.38 When a Union enters into a written agreement with a Player that contemplates the Player representing that Union at senior or next Senior Fifteen-A-Side National Representative Team level (whether at fifteen-aside or seven-a-side Rugby), the Union may seek the Player’s written agreement that the Player shall not be available for selection, attendance and/or appearance in a National Representative Team or National Squad of another Union during the term of that written agreement, including any extension thereof, provided that, prior to the execution of any such written agreement, the following conditions were satisfied:
(a) The Player had reached the age of majority. For the purposes of the Regulation(s), the age of majority shall be deemed to be acquired by a Player on his 18th birthday.
(b) Pursuant to Regulation 8, the Player was eligible to represent the senior or next senior National Representative Team of the Union with which he has entered into the written agreement and at least one other Union, (i.e., as a minimum requirement the Player had dual Union eligibility status).
(c) The Player had not represented the senior or next senior National Representative Team of any Union in any of the Matches or Tours specified in Regulation 8.3.
(d) As evidenced by completion of the standard form certification set out in Attachment 1, the Player received independent legal advice on the terms of the written agreement. In particular, the fact that in signing the written agreement the Player was acknowledging and accepting that during the course of the written agreement, and any extension thereof, he was foregoing his right to represent the senior or next senior National Representative Team of any other Union for which he may be eligible.
If, subject to compliance with the conditions set out in this Regulation 9.38, a Player’s written agreement so provides, then that Player shall not be available for selection, attendance and/or appearance in a National Representative Team or National Squad of another Union during the term of the written agreement, or any extension thereof and during such period the Union with whom the Player is contracted shall have no obligation to release the Player to another Union.*
@crucial Well that looks pretty cut and dried, I was totally wrong, apologies. Fkn weird that neither England nor WR seem to know about it
"That regulation is relevant in this case," a World Rugby source told The Telegraph in Britain as they investigated the ramifications of New Zealand digging their heels in over Shields.
It was a similar line at The Guardian who reported on Friday: "When asked if the Hurricanes would be obliged to release Shields if England wanted to select him, the Guardian was told by World Rugby that was 'absolutely the case'."
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It's not really a battle though is it...sheesh.
It's about when he gets to play for England, it ain't like abs are sneakily looking to cap him to deny him to England.
I think NZ should fight it if they have grounds to, but no way they come out of this looking good imo.
Fight it people think they are petty, let him go people think we have bowed to England.
Which is why we should release him but ask for some form of compensation (just as a token) given this situation is a little different to most international windows.
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I don't mind if the NZRU are petty about it. I also don't mind if they aren't.
Being petty means they disrupt a major rival's RWC prep by meaning they can't look at/integrate a player until 3 windows out from RWC instead of 4 windows out.
The RFU and Eddie Jones are being pretty cheeky.
I don't mind making them work a bit harder for their poaches.
I'm quite surprised that clause 9.38 exists
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So did Brad Shields turn down injury-replacement AB selection last November? I heard conflicting accounts?
If he had not turned it down, with another injury gaping-hole in his position this June would he be getting some AB caps this June? in an alternative sliding doors parallel universe?
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So did Brad Shields turn down injury-replacement AB selection last November? I heard conflicting accounts?
If he had not turned it down, with another injury gaping-hole in his position this June would he be getting some AB caps this June? in an alternative sliding doors parallel universe?
@rapido said in Exodus 2018:
So did Brad Shields turn down injury-replacement AB selection last November? I heard conflicting accounts?
If he had not turned it down, with another injury gaping-hole in his position this June would he be getting some AB caps this June? in an alternative sliding doors parallel universe?
IIRC he was offered up as an injury replacement but declined. I suppose he already knew he was going and didn't want to spoil his eligibility
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So did Brad Shields turn down injury-replacement AB selection last November? I heard conflicting accounts?
If he had not turned it down, with another injury gaping-hole in his position this June would he be getting some AB caps this June? in an alternative sliding doors parallel universe?
@rapido yeah I didnt think it was confirmed, although this article indicates it was, I thought it was more speculation that he was next in line following injuries...nice hyperbolic headline though!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/11/18/blacks-fury-brad-shields-defects-england/
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So did Brad Shields turn down injury-replacement AB selection last November? I heard conflicting accounts?
If he had not turned it down, with another injury gaping-hole in his position this June would he be getting some AB caps this June? in an alternative sliding doors parallel universe?
@rapido said in Exodus 2018:
So did Brad Shields turn down injury-replacement AB selection last November? I heard conflicting accounts?
If he had not turned it down, with another injury gaping-hole in his position this June would he be getting some AB caps this June? in an alternative sliding doors parallel universe?
He did, but not because he wants to play for England.
Shields confirmed last month he was moving to Britain to play with the London Wasps - a move many saw as a decision to pursue a place in England's Rugby World Cup squad after he turned down an All Blacks call-up as injury cover in this year's end-of-year tour. However, the 26-year-old exclusively told 1 NEWS today that wasn't the case. "My baby was born around that time so there was a pretty thin chance I was going to head over," he said. "My focus wasn't there. I wanted to be there for my partner and that took priority." -
@stargazer Why the fuck don't England just grow their own loose forwards ffs. I am so sick of NZ being a breeding ground for England or whoever else. Jeebus!
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Given that’s the terms of his contract compared to Piers Francis,From legal stand point the NZRFU hold all the cards,but It is a bit disappointing that the NZRU and Hansen had Kaino holding a tackle bag during the Rugby championship last year which did my head in at the time..I felt from the time the Infidelity story in and around Kaino broke,I always thought he was toast mentally and his career was only going one way.
And that would have been the perfect time to have tried Brad Shields in the 6 jersey as opposed to Vaia Fifita to experiment which provide mixed results..Personally from point of view I am still not sure about Sheilds at international level,no question he’s a very good player..just have some nagging doubts
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If I was NZR I would grant Shields his request for a release to play for England in June. I'd also say thanks for your service to NZ rugby and there's no need to come back.
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@bovidae while from NZR that is fine...canes probably wouldn't be so keen at pointy end of season
@taniwharugby said in Exodus 2018:
@bovidae while from NZR that is fine...canes probably wouldn't be so keen at pointy end of season
Yep, so the responsibility goes back on Shields to be loyal to the Canes first, and wait until his NZR contract has finished.
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@steven-harris ya reckon? Only thing I can see he has over Lam is age. Lam is way ahead in decision making and fairly ahead in most other departments.
@bones Well all I can say,like coaches and selectors its all in the eye of the beholder,Saw a lot of Ben Lam when he played for Grammar Tech when he played up in Auckland,always had that talent,pace and power but was not the best of trainers,
When he first made the Blues he was very fortunate to have made the cut,made his debut against the Stormers in Africa and got schooled,not his fault,just should never have been selected so young..
In recent years for Auckland been up and down,then got injured never to be seen for a while and what’s revitalised his career was playing sevens,had to get fit.
He’s taken his chances well.Alaimalo on the other hand has been gradually building since his debut for Northland in 2016.the few opportunities he had for the chiefs last year were very impressive and from building piece he’s actually got better,fitness has never been an issue with Alaimalo and you do get a handle on what someone is all about when you meet him..very intelligent speaker and thinker who’s always willing to learn from people around him..that’s not bad for kid only in his 2nd season of super rugby..the other thing Solomon Alaimalo has going for him,can play wing and fullback equally well with a very good kick game and the first time I ever saw him club footy was at centre and he looked just as comfortable in the midfield.
On saying that ,it’s great we have so much cover in that position
