AB's v Wales
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@no-quarter said in AB's v Wales:
I'd really like to see Akira get some game-time in this one. Fifita and Squire are both flat track bullies, and are not the answer long term. Neither of them could put in a performance like Akira did for the Maori vs the Lions while the rest of the pack got their asses handed to them. I see him as our long term 6 following Kaino's retirement.
I think this is nonsense.
I am not a long term Akira watcher, but went to the NZ Maori v French Barbarians game in Bordeaux, and was staggered by how much of the time Akira was walking around behind the play as a passenger. Was also in Rotorua so have some idea of the Akira upside.
Squire is streets ahead of Akira currently, and has the potential to be a great AB 6 IMHO.
Wouldn't want to quote the AB selectors in my defence, as we seem to disagree on other selections, but they seem to be with me on this one.
@infidel said in AB's v Wales:
@no-quarter said in AB's v Wales:
I'd really like to see Akira get some game-time in this one. Fifita and Squire are both flat track bullies, and are not the answer long term. Neither of them could put in a performance like Akira did for the Maori vs the Lions while the rest of the pack got their asses handed to them. I see him as our long term 6 following Kaino's retirement.
I think this is nonsense.
I am not a long term Akira watcher, but went to the NZ Maori v French Barbarians game in Bordeaux, and was staggered by how much of the time Akira was walking around behind the play as a passenger. Was also in Rotorua so have some idea of the Akira upside.
Squire is streets ahead of Akira currently, and has the potential to be a great AB 6 IMHO.
Wouldn't want to quote the AB selectors in my defence, as we seem to disagree on other selections, but they seem to be with me on this one.
I remember thinking Akira seemed half hearted in that match. Wondered if he was thinking he wanted to get through injury free so as to make it into the NZ XV game and get his AB jersey.
From the Blues games I saw this year I think he's currently better at 6, but against that he doesn't have the tackling impact which Squire brings and I think the ABs are looking for in their 6s.
All said and done though, other than at scrum time, does the number on their back make much difference?
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@infidel said in AB's v Wales:
Thanks for the clarifications here.
From what I saw in Bordeaux, I wouldn't be changing my opinion on Akira.
As you are saying Akira is better suited at 6, I would still say Squire is a mile ahead of Akira at 6 currently.
Not saying Akira can't make it as either 6 or 8, but my thinking is he needs to lift his workrate/attitude over current output. Would love to see him in the mix. It is possible Akira could be a better option at 8?
The two bolded comments seems to contradict. He played 8 in Bordeaux.
Yes I am suggesting Akira is better suited to 6 than 8 at this stage of his career - it's a less complex position to play and he can just get stuck in. I don't think it's a coincidence Akira's best performances this year have come at 6.
@kiwimurph said in AB's v Wales:
@infidel said in AB's v Wales:
Thanks for the clarifications here.
From what I saw in Bordeaux, I wouldn't be changing my opinion on Akira.
As you are saying Akira is better suited at 6, I would still say Squire is a mile ahead of Akira at 6 currently.
Not saying Akira can't make it as either 6 or 8, but my thinking is he needs to lift his workrate/attitude over current output. Would love to see him in the mix. It is possible Akira could be a better option at 8?
The two bolded comments seems to contradict. He played 8 in Bordeaux.
Yes I am suggesting Akira is better suited to 6 than 8 at this stage of his career - it's a less complex position to play and he can just get stuck in. I don't think it's a coincidence Akira's best performances this year have come at 6.
Also means that he can play on the front foot more. Moving forward to tackle or to support/clean out. Number 8 usually has to carry the role of forward sweeper as well meaning you need to make good decisions on whether to go in, hold behind or drop back.
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@infidel said in AB's v Wales:
@no-quarter said in AB's v Wales:
I'd really like to see Akira get some game-time in this one. Fifita and Squire are both flat track bullies, and are not the answer long term. Neither of them could put in a performance like Akira did for the Maori vs the Lions while the rest of the pack got their asses handed to them. I see him as our long term 6 following Kaino's retirement.
I think this is nonsense.
I am not a long term Akira watcher, but went to the NZ Maori v French Barbarians game in Bordeaux, and was staggered by how much of the time Akira was walking around behind the play as a passenger. Was also in Rotorua so have some idea of the Akira upside.
Squire is streets ahead of Akira currently, and has the potential to be a great AB 6 IMHO.
Wouldn't want to quote the AB selectors in my defence, as we seem to disagree on other selections, but they seem to be with me on this one.
I remember thinking Akira seemed half hearted in that match. Wondered if he was thinking he wanted to get through injury free so as to make it into the NZ XV game and get his AB jersey.
From the Blues games I saw this year I think he's currently better at 6, but against that he doesn't have the tackling impact which Squire brings and I think the ABs are looking for in their 6s.
All said and done though, other than at scrum time, does the number on their back make much difference?
@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
From the Blues games I saw this year I think he's currently better at 6, but against that he doesn't have the tackling impact which Squire brings and I think the ABs are looking for in their 6s.
Bullshit. He has more physical impact on the tackle by far. Watch Squire against Australia in Brisbane this year. He no impact - so often he was second tackler and added nothing. Combine with his ruck inspecting. Then watch the semifinal against the Crusaders - he did nothing.
Very low work rate player who was dumped from the Chiefs for it. The most overrated player in NZ by far.
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One news reporting Read in doubt and Ardie with mumps
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One news reporting Read in doubt and Ardie with mumps
@taniwharugby said in AB's v Wales:
One news reporting Read in doubt and Ardie with mumps
NZ Herald suggesting Read will play. If not, the word is that Luke Whitelock, whom I had assumed had gone home until I spied him at training in an AB TV snippet, will get the place. Also sounds as though Pat T may get the start.
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One news reporting Read in doubt and Ardie with mumps
@taniwharugby said in AB's v Wales:
One news reporting Read in doubt and Ardie with mumps
I saw a video post from David Havili on instagram yesterday, showing Ardie "in isolation". Havili brought Ardie takeaway and left it at Ardie's door and walked away a few metres before Ardie opened the door, checked nobody was nearby, and picked up the plastic bag with the food. All smiles, by the way, but clearly "not to be approached".
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@taniwharugby said in AB's v Wales:
One news reporting Read in doubt and Ardie with mumps
I saw a video post from David Havili on instagram yesterday, showing Ardie "in isolation". Havili brought Ardie takeaway and left it at Ardie's door and walked away a few metres before Ardie opened the door, checked nobody was nearby, and picked up the plastic bag with the food. All smiles, by the way, but clearly "not to be approached".
@stargazer yep same clip shown on 1 News
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In this day and age it’s fùcking ridiculous to lose 3 players to mumps. New rule please NZRU: no vaccination no black jersey.
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In this day and age it’s fùcking ridiculous to lose 3 players to mumps. New rule please NZRU: no vaccination no black jersey.
@billy-tell Ardie was vaccinated.That's probably the reason why he only has a "mild dose of mumps" and is "recovering quickly".
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@billy-tell Ardie was vaccinated.That's probably the reason why he only has a "mild dose of mumps" and is "recovering quickly".
@stargazer said in AB's v Wales:
@billy-tell Ardie was vaccinated.That's probably the reason why he only has a "mild dose of mumps" and is "recovering quickly".
Here's hoping he doesn't go down with a touch of polio.
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In this day and age it’s fùcking ridiculous to lose 3 players to mumps. New rule please NZRU: no vaccination no black jersey.
@billy-tell said in AB's v Wales:
In this day and age it’s fùcking ridiculous to lose 3 players to mumps. New rule please NZRU: no vaccination no black jersey.
A vaccination in your own country doesn't guarantee immunisation in another country / to a different strain.
Had a massive outbreak in the summer camp I used to work at.
US children, US adults, Aussies, Kiwis and Brits went down with an Eastern European strain despite vaccination.
I was quarantined because I couldn't show a vaccination certificate.
When I was a kid you would be sent to a kid's house who had mumps to make sure you got it.
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@billy-tell said in AB's v Wales:
In this day and age it’s fùcking ridiculous to lose 3 players to mumps. New rule please NZRU: no vaccination no black jersey.
A vaccination in your own country doesn't guarantee immunisation in another country / to a different strain.
Had a massive outbreak in the summer camp I used to work at.
US children, US adults, Aussies, Kiwis and Brits went down with an Eastern European strain despite vaccination.
I was quarantined because I couldn't show a vaccination certificate.
When I was a kid you would be sent to a kid's house who had mumps to make sure you got it.
@mikethesnow said in AB's v Wales:
When I was a kid you would be sent to a kid's house who had mumps to make sure you got it.
That's how it was with Chicken Pox when I was a kid, but apparently they vaccinate for it now.
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@mikethesnow said in AB's v Wales:
When I was a kid you would be sent to a kid's house who had mumps to make sure you got it.
That's how it was with Chicken Pox when I was a kid, but apparently they vaccinate for it now.
@milk said in AB's v Wales:
@mikethesnow said in AB's v Wales:
When I was a kid you would be sent to a kid's house who had mumps to make sure you got it.
That's how it was with Chicken Pox when I was a kid, but apparently they vaccinate for it now.
They do? My kids all got chicken pox lol.. I didn't even know there was a vaccination for it..
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@milk said in AB's v Wales:
@mikethesnow said in AB's v Wales:
When I was a kid you would be sent to a kid's house who had mumps to make sure you got it.
That's how it was with Chicken Pox when I was a kid, but apparently they vaccinate for it now.
They do? My kids all got chicken pox lol.. I didn't even know there was a vaccination for it..
@mimic said in AB's v Wales:
@milk said in AB's v Wales:
@mikethesnow said in AB's v Wales:
When I was a kid you would be sent to a kid's house who had mumps to make sure you got it.
That's how it was with Chicken Pox when I was a kid, but apparently they vaccinate for it now.
They do? My kids all got chicken pox lol.. I didn't even know there was a vaccination for it..
Same, both my girls caught it recently. Wasn’t great but didn’t appear to be as bad as it was when I caught it as a kid. Admittedly that was some 35 years ago , maybe the creams etc now do a better job of helping with the itching etc
I could recall the shear hell of days and days of constant itching and scratching. -
@milk said in AB's v Wales:
@mikethesnow said in AB's v Wales:
When I was a kid you would be sent to a kid's house who had mumps to make sure you got it.
That's how it was with Chicken Pox when I was a kid, but apparently they vaccinate for it now.
They do? My kids all got chicken pox lol.. I didn't even know there was a vaccination for it..
@mimic that was the vaccination, send your kids to someones house that had them haha.
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@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
From the Blues games I saw this year I think he's currently better at 6, but against that he doesn't have the tackling impact which Squire brings and I think the ABs are looking for in their 6s.
Bullshit. He has more physical impact on the tackle by far. Watch Squire against Australia in Brisbane this year. He no impact - so often he was second tackler and added nothing. Combine with his ruck inspecting. Then watch the semifinal against the Crusaders - he did nothing.
Very low work rate player who was dumped from the Chiefs for it. The most overrated player in NZ by far.
@tim said in AB's v Wales:
@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
From the Blues games I saw this year I think he's currently better at 6, but against that he doesn't have the tackling impact which Squire brings and I think the ABs are looking for in their 6s.
Bullshit. He has more physical impact on the tackle by far. Watch Squire against Australia in Brisbane this year. He no impact - so often he was second tackler and added nothing. Combine with his ruck inspecting. Then watch the semifinal against the Crusaders - he did nothing.
Very low work rate player who was dumped from the Chiefs for it. The most overrated player in NZ by far.
Well, from where I sit, Akira has had a bit of a tendency to be a scragger, in a similar mould to Savea (A) and Fifita, who to be fair did seem more physical when I watched the Scotland tape last night.
Compare with JK and Cane, who really get shoulder impact and are effective stoppers -- Shag's dominant tackles.
I'd put Squire more in the latter camp. One or two decent hits on Saturday. Tackles high, which does run risk of penalties for 'seat belt' tackling.That said, I agree he was pretty ineffective in Brisbane, and watching the weekend's tape seemed more to be looking to defend the fringes than getting his head into the dark spaces. Didn't see Clan semi so have to take your word for that.
But isn't it also a question of style? Seems that big hitting rampaging 6s are often less effective at ruck time. Compare with John Barclay, who isn't as physical, but on Saturday was almost like a second 7, and caused ABs a few problems at ruck time. Richard Hill was also similar, but absolutely key to the 2003 England team.
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@tim said in AB's v Wales:
@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
From the Blues games I saw this year I think he's currently better at 6, but against that he doesn't have the tackling impact which Squire brings and I think the ABs are looking for in their 6s.
Bullshit. He has more physical impact on the tackle by far. Watch Squire against Australia in Brisbane this year. He no impact - so often he was second tackler and added nothing. Combine with his ruck inspecting. Then watch the semifinal against the Crusaders - he did nothing.
Very low work rate player who was dumped from the Chiefs for it. The most overrated player in NZ by far.
Well, from where I sit, Akira has had a bit of a tendency to be a scragger, in a similar mould to Savea (A) and Fifita, who to be fair did seem more physical when I watched the Scotland tape last night.
Compare with JK and Cane, who really get shoulder impact and are effective stoppers -- Shag's dominant tackles.
I'd put Squire more in the latter camp. One or two decent hits on Saturday. Tackles high, which does run risk of penalties for 'seat belt' tackling.That said, I agree he was pretty ineffective in Brisbane, and watching the weekend's tape seemed more to be looking to defend the fringes than getting his head into the dark spaces. Didn't see Clan semi so have to take your word for that.
But isn't it also a question of style? Seems that big hitting rampaging 6s are often less effective at ruck time. Compare with John Barclay, who isn't as physical, but on Saturday was almost like a second 7, and caused ABs a few problems at ruck time. Richard Hill was also similar, but absolutely key to the 2003 England team.
@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
@tim said in AB's v Wales:
@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
From the Blues games I saw this year I think he's currently better at 6, but against that he doesn't have the tackling impact which Squire brings and I think the ABs are looking for in their 6s.
Bullshit. He has more physical impact on the tackle by far. Watch Squire against Australia in Brisbane this year. He no impact - so often he was second tackler and added nothing. Combine with his ruck inspecting. Then watch the semifinal against the Crusaders - he did nothing.
Very low work rate player who was dumped from the Chiefs for it. The most overrated player in NZ by far.
Well, from where I sit, Akira has had a bit of a tendency to be a scragger, in a similar mould to Savea (A) and Fifita, who to be fair did seem more physical when I watched the Scotland tape last night.
Compare with JK and Cane, who really get shoulder impact and are effective stoppers -- Shag's dominant tackles.
I'd put Squire more in the latter camp. One or two decent hits on Saturday. Tackles high, which does run risk of penalties for 'seat belt' tackling.That said, I agree he was pretty ineffective in Brisbane, and watching the weekend's tape seemed more to be looking to defend the fringes than getting his head into the dark spaces. Didn't see Clan semi so have to take your word for that.
But isn't it also a question of style? Seems that big hitting rampaging 6s are often less effective at ruck time. Compare with John Barclay, who isn't as physical, but on Saturday was almost like a second 7, and caused ABs a few problems at ruck time. Richard Hill was also similar, but absolutely key to the 2003 England team.
Surely much of that comes down to the skillset dictated by the defensive coach? eg are we going in to disrupt so the rest of the defence is aligned and ready or are we going to reduce the threat of pick and goes by having big hitters waiting on the fringes?
In past seasons we have gone for JK looking to smash runners backward while the world's best disrupter was doing his work at the breakdown.
Now Cane has taken more of the hard tackler role and while we still want our 6 to put the shoulder in, that isn't their main role. We are looking for carries from 6, something we didn't see a huge amount of from JK.
Both Fifita and Squire are good ball carriers. They just need to learn to link to support better. -
@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
@tim said in AB's v Wales:
@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
From the Blues games I saw this year I think he's currently better at 6, but against that he doesn't have the tackling impact which Squire brings and I think the ABs are looking for in their 6s.
Bullshit. He has more physical impact on the tackle by far. Watch Squire against Australia in Brisbane this year. He no impact - so often he was second tackler and added nothing. Combine with his ruck inspecting. Then watch the semifinal against the Crusaders - he did nothing.
Very low work rate player who was dumped from the Chiefs for it. The most overrated player in NZ by far.
Well, from where I sit, Akira has had a bit of a tendency to be a scragger, in a similar mould to Savea (A) and Fifita, who to be fair did seem more physical when I watched the Scotland tape last night.
Compare with JK and Cane, who really get shoulder impact and are effective stoppers -- Shag's dominant tackles.
I'd put Squire more in the latter camp. One or two decent hits on Saturday. Tackles high, which does run risk of penalties for 'seat belt' tackling.That said, I agree he was pretty ineffective in Brisbane, and watching the weekend's tape seemed more to be looking to defend the fringes than getting his head into the dark spaces. Didn't see Clan semi so have to take your word for that.
But isn't it also a question of style? Seems that big hitting rampaging 6s are often less effective at ruck time. Compare with John Barclay, who isn't as physical, but on Saturday was almost like a second 7, and caused ABs a few problems at ruck time. Richard Hill was also similar, but absolutely key to the 2003 England team.
Surely much of that comes down to the skillset dictated by the defensive coach? eg are we going in to disrupt so the rest of the defence is aligned and ready or are we going to reduce the threat of pick and goes by having big hitters waiting on the fringes?
In past seasons we have gone for JK looking to smash runners backward while the world's best disrupter was doing his work at the breakdown.
Now Cane has taken more of the hard tackler role and while we still want our 6 to put the shoulder in, that isn't their main role. We are looking for carries from 6, something we didn't see a huge amount of from JK.
Both Fifita and Squire are good ball carriers. They just need to learn to link to support better. -
@pakman said in AB's v Wales:
@crucial Pretty much my point. Key is loose forward balance.
Yep. And that dynamic has changed quite a bit since McCaw retired.
It is a big part of the reason why Ardie has gone out of favour IMO. Although he brings his own skills to the party the balance is upset unless the 6 takes over the Cane role.
