6N 2018
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Reading more comments from Eddie and the English players I am glad to see they are still fixated on size and power over speed.
It was plain to see that their forwards were too slow to support the ball carrier but apparently the problem is not having enough power.
Jake the Muss would be happy to explain. -
@mooshld Couldn't agree more. Taking the 3 with 3 minutes to go was as dumb a decision as I have seen. Was surprised that none of the commentators mentioned anything. All that the penalty achieved was to hand back field position to England.
@mooshld Couldn't agree more. Taking the 3 with 3 minutes to go was as dumb a decision as I have seen. Was surprised that none of the commentators mentioned anything. All that the penalty achieved was to hand back field position to England.
The Argies did a similar thing during the Summer tests and the comms guys were spluttering about it, so yeah strange they had nothing to say. Maybe they realised England were never going to string enough phases together.
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@stargazer said in 6N 2018:
@taniwharugby said in 6N 2018:
an unwanted record...and a shitty headline.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12010929
I actually find it a disgusting article and headline. He's an international, a good player in a team that may be the weakest in the 6 Nations and no. 14 in the world rankings, but reaching 133 test caps is a huge achievement nevertheless. He deserves respect, not rubbish like this.
Come on Scotland! Get him to the milestone in style !
Italy are lucky that Scotland have been pretty dire particularly in the mid 2000s when it was always an entertaining scrap for bottom place. In saying that they've still picked up 13 wooden spoons in 18 years.
They've brought precisely 3 5ths of 5 8ths of fuck all to the tournament as a whole.
Money . They bought money to tournament. That it though, they’ve bought fuck all else.
The Ferald having a cheap shot? There’s a surprise.
I wonder if Georgia or Romania could have managed their level of consistent shitness?
@stargazer said in 6N 2018:
@taniwharugby said in 6N 2018:
an unwanted record...and a shitty headline.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12010929
I actually find it a disgusting article and headline. He's an international, a good player in a team that may be the weakest in the 6 Nations and no. 14 in the world rankings, but reaching 133 test caps is a huge achievement nevertheless. He deserves respect, not rubbish like this.
Come on Scotland! Get him to the milestone in style !
Italy are lucky that Scotland have been pretty dire particularly in the mid 2000s when it was always an entertaining scrap for bottom place. In saying that they've still picked up 13 wooden spoons in 18 years.
They've brought precisely 3 5ths of 5 8ths of fuck all to the tournament as a whole.
Money . They bought money to tournament. That it though, they’ve bought fuck all else.
The Ferald having a cheap shot? There’s a surprise.
I wonder if Georgia or Romania could have managed their level of consistent shitness?
Romania definitely
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So Healey only got a 'stinger' to the shoulder/traps
No Head injury
Eddie missed a trick on this
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So Healey only got a 'stinger' to the shoulder/traps
No Head injury
Eddie missed a trick on this
@taniwharugby said in 6N 2018:
So Healey only got a 'stinger' to the shoulder/traps
No Head injury
Eddie missed a trick on this
What a crock of shit. It's not mentally affecting Ireland. Imagine if NZ started wheeling out these excuses.
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@Billy-Tell @taniwharugby To be fair to Guscott and to re-confirm Stuff's status as a journalistic cesspool, his article was much longer than that and his reasons (which he accompanied with a rationale), were, in order:-
- England are over thinking it at the moment.
- People assume the team lack leaders.
- England's best players are playing well below their best.
- England have only 3-4 world class players
- Eddie is the main leader and he's not preparing the team well enough at present.
- England are plodding in attack.
- A Lions tour is so mentally draining.
- There's no clarity at the breakdown.
- George Ford has been almost anonymous.
So, a bit more to it than Stuff would have you believe.
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@Billy-Tell @taniwharugby To be fair to Guscott and to re-confirm Stuff's status as a journalistic cesspool, his article was much longer than that and his reasons (which he accompanied with a rationale), were, in order:-
- England are over thinking it at the moment.
- People assume the team lack leaders.
- England's best players are playing well below their best.
- England have only 3-4 world class players
- Eddie is the main leader and he's not preparing the team well enough at present.
- England are plodding in attack.
- A Lions tour is so mentally draining.
- There's no clarity at the breakdown.
- George Ford has been almost anonymous.
So, a bit more to it than Stuff would have you believe.
@catogrande Yeah, you are right Cato, that stuff article is not exactly telling the whole picture. I read Guscotts column today as he's pretty good and usually on the money.
The biggest thing that shocked me though, was he didn't list Itoje in his world class players. That's certainly going against the grain of England rugby journalism, who almost seem to have some sort of illness which prevents them saying anything negative, or even neutral about him.
FWIW I think he's been relatively anonymous in this years 6N.
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@catogrande Yeah, you are right Cato, that stuff article is not exactly telling the whole picture. I read Guscotts column today as he's pretty good and usually on the money.
The biggest thing that shocked me though, was he didn't list Itoje in his world class players. That's certainly going against the grain of England rugby journalism, who almost seem to have some sort of illness which prevents them saying anything negative, or even neutral about him.
FWIW I think he's been relatively anonymous in this years 6N.
@majorrage said in 6N 2018:
@catogrande Yeah, you are right Cato, that stuff article is not exactly telling the whole picture. I read Guscotts column today as he's pretty good and usually on the money.
The biggest thing that shocked me though, was he didn't list Itoje in his world class players. That's certainly going against the grain of England rugby journalism, who almost seem to have some sort of illness which prevents them saying anything negative, or even neutral about him.
FWIW I think he's been relatively anonymous in this years 6N.
Yeah English rugby journalism have a love affair with Itoje and I sometimes wonder if he asks himself "is it because I'm a poster boy for the black community"? For sure he's a very good player and also he had that long winning streak last season but the wankfest over him has been excessive. He's a pretty intelligent guy so I'd hope it doesn't go to his head - it certainly doesn't seem as though it has affected him going by the odd interview I've seen.
His form since the Lions has not been up there and I'd guess that is for a mixture of reasons. Tiredness, staleness, playing in sides that are not as dominant as they were, mixed messages in game management and likely more. I do think that he's got real potential though, both as a player and as a leader and I really hope he fulfils both.
He has been a fair bit quieter in this years 6N (and far from the only culprit here) but oddly made some impressive line out steals v France. Maybe he's getting his mojo back?
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Who are the world class players in Guscott's view? I assume Farrell is one but I'm curious about who he thinks the others are.
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@majorrage said in 6N 2018:
@catogrande Yeah, you are right Cato, that stuff article is not exactly telling the whole picture. I read Guscotts column today as he's pretty good and usually on the money.
The biggest thing that shocked me though, was he didn't list Itoje in his world class players. That's certainly going against the grain of England rugby journalism, who almost seem to have some sort of illness which prevents them saying anything negative, or even neutral about him.
FWIW I think he's been relatively anonymous in this years 6N.
Yeah English rugby journalism have a love affair with Itoje and I sometimes wonder if he asks himself "is it because I'm a poster boy for the black community"? For sure he's a very good player and also he had that long winning streak last season but the wankfest over him has been excessive. He's a pretty intelligent guy so I'd hope it doesn't go to his head - it certainly doesn't seem as though it has affected him going by the odd interview I've seen.
His form since the Lions has not been up there and I'd guess that is for a mixture of reasons. Tiredness, staleness, playing in sides that are not as dominant as they were, mixed messages in game management and likely more. I do think that he's got real potential though, both as a player and as a leader and I really hope he fulfils both.
He has been a fair bit quieter in this years 6N (and far from the only culprit here) but oddly made some impressive line out steals v France. Maybe he's getting his mojo back?
@catogrande said in 6N 2018:
@majorrage said in 6N 2018:
@catogrande Yeah, you are right Cato, that stuff article is not exactly telling the whole picture. I read Guscotts column today as he's pretty good and usually on the money.
The biggest thing that shocked me though, was he didn't list Itoje in his world class players. That's certainly going against the grain of England rugby journalism, who almost seem to have some sort of illness which prevents them saying anything negative, or even neutral about him.
FWIW I think he's been relatively anonymous in this years 6N.
Yeah English rugby journalism have a love affair with Itoje and I sometimes wonder if he asks himself "is it because I'm a poster boy for the black community"? For sure he's a very good player and also he had that long winning streak last season but the wankfest over him has been excessive. He's a pretty intelligent guy so I'd hope it doesn't go to his head - it certainly doesn't seem as though it has affected him going by the odd interview I've seen.
His form since the Lions has not been up there and I'd guess that is for a mixture of reasons. Tiredness, staleness, playing in sides that are not as dominant as they were, mixed messages in game management and likely more. I do think that he's got real potential though, both as a player and as a leader and I really hope he fulfils both.
He has been a fair bit quieter in this years 6N (and far from the only culprit here) but oddly made some impressive line out steals v France. Maybe he's getting his mojo back?
I've often wondered similar from the journo community, not from his.
Don't get me wrong ... he's a great player ... and to call him over rated is not because he's not a fantastic player, it's because (as yet) he's not the once in a generation sort of player which is a mantle many have given him.
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Time for Eddie to admit that his selections have been off / players not playing to their ability.
Farrell to 10
Daly and Joseph in midfield@mikethesnow said in 6N 2018:
Time for Eddie to admit that his selections have been off / players not playing to their ability.
Farrell to 10
Daly and Joseph in midfieldFord has not been influencing games like he should, so I can understand the call for Farrell to move in one and TBH I wouldn't be averse to that nowadays. I wouldn't have that midfield though, Daly and Joseph are too much alike. I'd be OK with either Slade or Teo at 12 and then either of the other two at 13. Just which one would likely be dictated by the available wings. With Nowell out and Watson probably at 15 then it would be Daly on the wing.
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@mikethesnow said in 6N 2018:
Time for Eddie to admit that his selections have been off / players not playing to their ability.
Farrell to 10
Daly and Joseph in midfieldFord has not been influencing games like he should, so I can understand the call for Farrell to move in one and TBH I wouldn't be averse to that nowadays. I wouldn't have that midfield though, Daly and Joseph are too much alike. I'd be OK with either Slade or Teo at 12 and then either of the other two at 13. Just which one would likely be dictated by the available wings. With Nowell out and Watson probably at 15 then it would be Daly on the wing.
@catogrande said in 6N 2018:
@mikethesnow said in 6N 2018:
Time for Eddie to admit that his selections have been off / players not playing to their ability.
Farrell to 10
Daly and Joseph in midfieldFord has not been influencing games like he should, so I can understand the call for Farrell to move in one and TBH I wouldn't be averse to that nowadays. I wouldn't have that midfield though, Daly and Joseph are too much alike. I'd be OK with either Slade or Teo at 12 and then either of the other two at 13. Just which one would likely be dictated by the available wings. With Nowell out and Watson probably at 15 then it would be Daly on the wing.
Understand your thoughts on Slade, but Daly is the closest in-form player to the Farrell role.
England won't beat Ireland with Te'O trucking it up. The English back row aren't quick enough to support him.
Wales opened up the Irish midfield quite comfortably, an English backline of Care, Farrell, Daly, Joseph, May, Watson, Brown is the answer IMHO
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I don't think changing the backline will do much - although perhaps some ball retention skills for that part of the team won't hurt.
A faster, balanced and competitive back row and some proper leadership will change things somewhat.
@majorrage said in 6N 2018:
I don't think changing the backline will do much - although perhaps some ball retention skills for that part of the team won't hurt.
A faster, balanced and competitive back row and some proper leadership will change things somewhat.
No disputing the backrow situation and solution.
However despite that shortcoming the English backs had more than enough ball against the French to win, they were just ineffectual.
The backline I proposed are proven line breakers and try scorers.
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Yeah Daly is in form and a class act, however he has played the vast majority of his rugby at 13 and then on the wing. Like Joseph, he has some wheels and a lovely outside break but he's far from a natural distributor, nor is he used to defending in the 12 channel, so I'd not have him there.. The backs had a reasonable amount of ball v the French, but not much good, quick, front foot ball.
I agree with @MajorRage that the real problem lies at forward and in particular an unbalanced and slow back row. Fucking around too much with the backs is like using a sticking plaster for cancer.
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So what are the changes to the pack which can be made?
Who's fit and good enough?
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So what are the changes to the pack which can be made?
Who's fit and good enough?
@mikethesnow just going on the weekend, shoving Robshaw to 6, Haskell on at 7 would be a fine start.
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@MajorRage @MiketheSnow
Absolutely, Robshaw back to 6. The guy has a fantastic engine on him and gets through a shed-load of the unsung work. He is one of the first names on the team sheet, so play him in his best position. Haskell is an option at 7, as is Armand or Simmonds for that matter. I reckon Armand is better suited to 8 than Simmonds and Simmonds better suited to 7 but that's not the way Baxter plays them at Exeter (and who's to argue)? Simmonds is bloody quick off the mark but then Armand is no slouch either
Itoje and Launchbury in the engine room and then a long discussion about the front row. Sinckler or Cole? Hartley, George or Cowan-Dickie at 2?
Vunipola stays at loosehead for me and I might just go with Sinckler on the tight. Eddie likely to go with Hartley if fit at hooker methinks and I can see the merit in that - we need some form of leadership there.
