6N 2018
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Found them - incomplete but you get the gist
League games (time) + Euro games (time) + 6 N. Didn’t include Nov tests. You could probably safely assume that they played all 6 Euro games (except Itoje who was injured)English player clocks maxed at 32 games (2,560) and Irish Player clocks maxed at 25 games (2000 minutes)
Farrell 9-605 + 6(460)+ tests
Itoje 8-(572) +4 (310) + tests
Kruis 11-(815 ) + 460+ tests
Hartley 8-(513) + 400+ tests
Vunipola 10-(594) + 400+ tests
Robshaw 10- (761) + 400+ tests
Daly 6-(430) + 400+ tests
Watson 10-(793) +400 + tests
Cole 11 (741) +400 + tests
Sinckler 14 735 +400 + tests
Haskell 10 661 + 400 + tests
Ford 11 880 mn. + 5-400 + tests 300Cronin 12-(567) + 6 (307) = 874
Furlong 5-(242) + 6 (402) = 644
Healy 6-(242) + 6-(260) = 502
Henshaw 3-(240) +6-(455) = 695
Leavy 6-(330) + 4-(145) = 475
Kearney 4-(267) + 4-(243) = 510 + tests 549
McGrath 6-(312) + 6-(219) =531 + tests 218
Porter 11-(402) + 3-(42) =444 + tests 237
Ringrose 4-(264) +2-(160)= 424 + tests 160
Sexton 4-(247) + 4-(193) = 440 + tests 491
Toner 7-(525) + 6-(440) = 965 + tests 426
Earls 4-(320) + 4-(303) = 623 + tests 364
Murray 5-(373) + 6-(452) = 825 + tests 499
O’Mahony 4-(315) + 6-(447) = 762 + tests 478
Stander 5-(400) + 6-(480) = 880 + tests 538
Henderson 5-(400) + 6-(480) =880 + tests 380
Best 3-(210) + 3-(240) = 450 + tests 472
Aki 6-(463) + 5-(347) = 810 + tests 560 -
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It was the Telegraph yesterday that had a big spread of stats. I'll see if I can find them online (I read it at the pub)
@antipodean im not dismissing it as a factor, just saying that players aren't looking physically laboured, they are looking very dull and (this has been a long standing criticism) unable to think for themselves.
Jones pulled together some structure, focus and belief which stood them well (alongside some moments of luck). That some of their opponents were weak has also been shown out with Scotland, France and Wales all making improvements this year without necessarily being scary.
I'm not writing them off either, any country with the resources they have and the right game on the day is a tough prospect. You have to be sharp to beat them. Be off your game and they will still win.
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@antipodean and yet there are some sections of our media (and on here) unhappy with NZR having players in camps instead of playing super rugby, which is all about managing workload as well.
@taniwharugby said in 6N 2018:
@antipodean and yet there are some sections of our media (and on here) unhappy with NZR having players in camps instead of playing super rugby, which is all about managing workload as well.
I thought AB players in camps would be available to play Super Rugby?
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@bovidae It was a Stuff article on data driven science in Irish rugby:
The relevant paragraph I recalled was this one:
One example of that contrast is the two playmakers, Jonathan Sexton and Owen Farrell. Since the Lions tour last summer, Sexton has played just 435 minutes for Leinster. In the same time, Farrell has amassed a staggering 1,084 minutes of action for Saracens.
@antipodean said in 6N 2018:
The relevant paragraph I recalled was this one:
One example of that contrast is the two playmakers, Jonathan Sexton and Owen Farrell. Since the Lions tour last summer, Sexton has played just 435 minutes for Leinster. In the same time, Farrell has amassed a staggering 1,084 minutes of action for Saracens.
To be honest, I'm not that staggered.
In the past 8 months Farrell's played the equivalent of 13 full matches for Saracens?
Sexton seems underdone - he's only had five games equivalent.
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@crucial Jones is a good coach. No one gets England to win 18 in a row simply by making them fitter, let alone getting Japan to beat South Africa if they're a bad coach.
A lot of these England players are in need of a rest. It's not the only issue, but it's certainly a contributing one. The difference in workload compared to Ireland's centrally contracted players is illuminating. Compare Farrell with Sexton since the Lions Tour for example.
@antipodean said in 6N 2018:
@crucial Jones is a good coach. No one gets England to win 18 in a row simply by making them fitter, let alone getting Japan to beat South Africa if they're a bad coach.
A lot of these England players are in need of a rest. It's not the only issue, but it's certainly a contributing one. The difference in workload compared to Ireland's centrally contracted players is illuminating. Compare Farrell with Sexton since the Lions Tour for example.
Fatigue is certainly one factor.
Other factors include
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Jones hasn't had the personnel at his disposal to execute his preferred game plan
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He hasn't changed / adapted his preferred game plan based point 1.
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The othe international teams have studied his preferred game plan, found ways to be competitive against it, and then found they're actually going better than they thought based on point 1.
The England situation is very similar to the Wales situation when we have a new NZ coach.
The coach focuses on fitness, strength, skills deficiency.
A successful run of matches ensues.
Then losses happen as other sides work out the preferred game plan and the coach doesn't have the time to transition to phase 2 of his plan.
Now whether Jones has a phase 2 is another topic entirely
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@antipodean said in 6N 2018:
The relevant paragraph I recalled was this one:
One example of that contrast is the two playmakers, Jonathan Sexton and Owen Farrell. Since the Lions tour last summer, Sexton has played just 435 minutes for Leinster. In the same time, Farrell has amassed a staggering 1,084 minutes of action for Saracens.
To be honest, I'm not that staggered.
In the past 8 months Farrell's played the equivalent of 13 full matches for Saracens?
Sexton seems underdone - he's only had five games equivalent.
@chris-b said in 6N 2018:
@antipodean said in 6N 2018:
The relevant paragraph I recalled was this one:
One example of that contrast is the two playmakers, Jonathan Sexton and Owen Farrell. Since the Lions tour last summer, Sexton has played just 435 minutes for Leinster. In the same time, Farrell has amassed a staggering 1,084 minutes of action for Saracens.
To be honest, I'm not that staggered.
In the past 8 months Farrell's played the equivalent of 13 full matches for Saracens?
Sexton seems underdone - he's only had five games equivalent.
He was injured so missed 2 European games. Farrell is also 6 years younger. In 2011/12, Sexton had 1,121 minutes on his Leinster clock and 974 on his Ireland clock. 2000 minutes is the normal limit in Ireland. 2,500 in England.
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@chris-b said in 6N 2018:
@antipodean said in 6N 2018:
The relevant paragraph I recalled was this one:
One example of that contrast is the two playmakers, Jonathan Sexton and Owen Farrell. Since the Lions tour last summer, Sexton has played just 435 minutes for Leinster. In the same time, Farrell has amassed a staggering 1,084 minutes of action for Saracens.
To be honest, I'm not that staggered.
In the past 8 months Farrell's played the equivalent of 13 full matches for Saracens?
Sexton seems underdone - he's only had five games equivalent.
He was injured so missed 2 European games. Farrell is also 6 years younger. In 2011/12, Sexton had 1,121 minutes on his Leinster clock and 974 on his Ireland clock. 2000 minutes is the normal limit in Ireland. 2,500 in England.
@pot-hale Injuries are one of the problems in comparing just two players, as you say looking at the norm across the board is likely to be more informative. If as you say it is 2,000 minutes v 2,500 minutes as a norm, that is a considerable difference.
One of the problems of having a commercial run Premiership I guess. Most businesses will squeeze their assets.
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@pot-hale Injuries are one of the problems in comparing just two players, as you say looking at the norm across the board is likely to be more informative. If as you say it is 2,000 minutes v 2,500 minutes as a norm, that is a considerable difference.
One of the problems of having a commercial run Premiership I guess. Most businesses will squeeze their assets.
@catogrande said in 6N 2018:
@pot-hale Injuries are one of the problems in comparing just two players, as you say looking at the norm across the board is likely to be more informative. If as you say it is 2,000 minutes v 2,500 minutes as a norm, that is a considerable difference.
One of the problems of having a commercial run Premiership I guess. Most businesses will squeeze their assets.
Absolutely. If the EPS deal English RFU has with clubs is grounded on this number and 32 games is the limit, then that leaves 20/21 games for clubs to use a player in. With Saracens getting to the business end in Europe recently that’s 8-9 games gone. Leaving maybe a dozen for the Premiership.
It’s difficult to track based on assumptions only though. Sexton’s Ireland test numbers since 2011/12 have varied wildly:
11/12 - 12+4 RWC
12/13 - 4
13/14 - 9
14/15 - 6
15/16 - 10 RWC
16/17 - 5
17/18 - 7 to date -
Very true. The porn and the dairy industry are probably the worst offenders of this practice.
@majorrage said in 6N 2018:
Very true. The porn and the dairy industry are probably the worst offenders of this practice.
And thank God on both counts.
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England head coach Eddie Jones retains RFU's backing despite fifth-place Six Nations finish
- "Eddie and his coaches have my confidence..."
... not quite "full backing of the board" yet
- "Eddie and his coaches have my confidence..."
