Magpies - 2018 Mitre 10 Cup
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Apparently, the HBRU have signed another import: Stacey Ily. I'm struggling to get this "my team" feeling with all these non-Bay players in the squad. I get that they want a strong squad and that there may not be enough local players that are up to it, but do they have the balance right?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503460&objectid=12100809
@stargazer said in Magpies - 2018 Mitre 10 Cup:
Apparently, the HBRU have signed another import: Stacey Ily. I'm struggling to get this "my team" feeling with all these non-Bay players in the squad. I get that they want a strong squad and that there may not be enough local players that are up to it, but do they have the balance right?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503460&objectid=12100809
Ili is the only "import" who has not played club rugby this season in the province. All the others have.
I'm quite okay with "imports" playing club rugby - it's been happening for years. Kel Tremain arrived in 1962 and Ian MacRae arrived in 1963. No one complained, in fact they were most welcomed.
But in all honesty, the coach is charged with producing a winning team by the union. He is not there to strengthen the club competition and identify local upcoming talent - that's what the Academy Manager is there to do. The coachs' job description is to lead a winning team of the best available players not select local players just because they are local. If local players don't have the skill factor required then the coach is quite justified in not picking them and looking outside the province.
If the coach doesn't produce a winning team, then the public criticise him, posters on the Silverfern criticise him, and the Board finds another coach. That's why the coach's actions count and ours don't.
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@stargazer said in Magpies - 2018 Mitre 10 Cup:
Apparently, the HBRU have signed another import: Stacey Ily. I'm struggling to get this "my team" feeling with all these non-Bay players in the squad. I get that they want a strong squad and that there may not be enough local players that are up to it, but do they have the balance right?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503460&objectid=12100809
Ili is the only "import" who has not played club rugby this season in the province. All the others have.
I'm quite okay with "imports" playing club rugby - it's been happening for years. Kel Tremain arrived in 1962 and Ian MacRae arrived in 1963. No one complained, in fact they were most welcomed.
But in all honesty, the coach is charged with producing a winning team by the union. He is not there to strengthen the club competition and identify local upcoming talent - that's what the Academy Manager is there to do. The coachs' job description is to lead a winning team of the best available players not select local players just because they are local. If local players don't have the skill factor required then the coach is quite justified in not picking them and looking outside the province.
If the coach doesn't produce a winning team, then the public criticise him, posters on the Silverfern criticise him, and the Board finds another coach. That's why the coach's actions count and ours don't.
@number-10 I think you're misinterpreting my previous post. I'm not criticising the selectors for importing so many players from other provinces in the apparent absence of quality local players. I'm just saying that the team doesn't give me as much of the tribal "feels" as it used to with so many imports in the squad. I guess that's because they were not drip-fed over the years, but have been coming by the bucket-loads this year. Playing club rugby doesn't instantly change them into Bay players. We have to get to know them first.
I guess they'll also have to show some pride in the jersey first; something that comes naturally if you play for your "own" province. I want to be convinced that they're not just playing for themselves and their own (legitimate) career purposes, but also for the province. They can only show that on the field & I'll be watching with interest. I'll happily cheer them on in the black & white, but initially I'll do that sitting on the fence.
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@stargazer said in Magpies - 2018 Mitre 10 Cup:
Apparently, the HBRU have signed another import: Stacey Ily. I'm struggling to get this "my team" feeling with all these non-Bay players in the squad. I get that they want a strong squad and that there may not be enough local players that are up to it, but do they have the balance right?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503460&objectid=12100809
Ili is the only "import" who has not played club rugby this season in the province. All the others have.
I'm quite okay with "imports" playing club rugby - it's been happening for years. Kel Tremain arrived in 1962 and Ian MacRae arrived in 1963. No one complained, in fact they were most welcomed.
But in all honesty, the coach is charged with producing a winning team by the union. He is not there to strengthen the club competition and identify local upcoming talent - that's what the Academy Manager is there to do. The coachs' job description is to lead a winning team of the best available players not select local players just because they are local. If local players don't have the skill factor required then the coach is quite justified in not picking them and looking outside the province.
If the coach doesn't produce a winning team, then the public criticise him, posters on the Silverfern criticise him, and the Board finds another coach. That's why the coach's actions count and ours don't.
@number-10 Actually, if the coaches job description and performance only relate purely to results then the HBRU Board deserve a bullet. There has to be a wholistic (sorry for the wanky buzzword) view that includes the promotion of born and bred talent, and the showing of pathways for local talent.
It's not sustainable to go from year to year buying a team with pathways blocked for homegrown talent. We want the Magpies to be the go to team for young HB talent and not see them drift off (either to other provinces or out of the game).
I've always said I'd rather lose with homegrown players (like Manawatu) than win all the time with imports - hell we're at the stage where we're now behind the Poo even with the imports - that hasn't changed.
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From the Mitre 10 Cup launch today. I hope that Sam gets to do more than just promos this season.
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2018 Magpies squad:
Michael Allardice - lock - Napier Pirate
Joe Apikotoa - prop - Taradale
Mark Braidwood - prop - Napier Tech
Hannon Brighouse - flanker - Napier OB Marist
Geoff Cridge - lock - Hastings R&S
Jacob Devery - hooker - Hastings R&S
Ash Dixon - hooker - Napier Tech - captain
Gareth Evans - loose forward - Havelock North
Tim Farrell - prop - Napier Tech
Devan Flanders - flanker/no. 8 - Havelock North
Solomone Funaki - loose forward - MAC
Josh Kaifa - loose forward - Clive
Kianu Kereru Symes - prop/hooker - Tamatea
Jason Long - prop - Hastings R&S
Ben May - prop - Central
Marino Mikaele-Tu'u - loose forward - Hastings R&S
Tom Parsons - lock - Central
Ben Power - hooker - Havelock North
Pouri Rakete-Stones - prop - Napier Pirate
Fa'alemiga Selesele - loose forward - MAC
Josiah Tavita-Metcalfe - prop - Hastings R&S
Will Tremain - openside flanker - Napier OB Marist
Sam Ulufonua - lock - Havelock NorthMichael Buckley - wing - Napier OB Marist
Pasqualle Dunn - midfielder - Central
Mason Emerson - outside back - Hastings R&S
Folau Fakatava - halfback - Hastings R&S
Tiaan Falcon - first five-eighth - Clive
Stacey Ily - utility back - Napier OB Marist
Jonah Lowe - wing - Clive
Lincoln McClutchie - first five-eighth - Tamatea
JJ Taulagi - outside back - Clive
Danny Toala - fullback - Hastings R&S
Sasa Tofilau - midfielder - Clive
Shae Tucker - midfielder - Napier OB Marist
Brad Weber - halfback - Napier OB Maristhttps://www.facebook.com/hbmagpies/videos/2310888068951921/
I can only assume that Gareth Evans wasn't available for the team naming. Surely, he must be in the squad?
Ben May, Brodie Retallick (although he won't play) same thing.Most notable omissions (compared to last year; not known to have moved somewhere else): Mason Kean, Jacob Devery (still injured?), Ellery Wilson, Sam McNicol (because of injury?)
Edit: just confirmed on FB that indeed Ben May and Gareth Evans are also in the squad; also Jacob Devery (have added them to the list). Theyre still forgetting to mention Brodie.
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2018 Magpies squad:
Michael Allardice - lock - Napier Pirate
Joe Apikotoa - prop - Taradale
Mark Braidwood - prop - Napier Tech
Hannon Brighouse - flanker - Napier OB Marist
Geoff Cridge - lock - Hastings R&S
Jacob Devery - hooker - Hastings R&S
Ash Dixon - hooker - Napier Tech - captain
Gareth Evans - loose forward - Havelock North
Tim Farrell - prop - Napier Tech
Devan Flanders - flanker/no. 8 - Havelock North
Solomone Funaki - loose forward - MAC
Josh Kaifa - loose forward - Clive
Kianu Kereru Symes - prop/hooker - Tamatea
Jason Long - prop - Hastings R&S
Ben May - prop - Central
Marino Mikaele-Tu'u - loose forward - Hastings R&S
Tom Parsons - lock - Central
Ben Power - hooker - Havelock North
Pouri Rakete-Stones - prop - Napier Pirate
Fa'alemiga Selesele - loose forward - MAC
Josiah Tavita-Metcalfe - prop - Hastings R&S
Will Tremain - openside flanker - Napier OB Marist
Sam Ulufonua - lock - Havelock NorthMichael Buckley - wing - Napier OB Marist
Pasqualle Dunn - midfielder - Central
Mason Emerson - outside back - Hastings R&S
Folau Fakatava - halfback - Hastings R&S
Tiaan Falcon - first five-eighth - Clive
Stacey Ily - utility back - Napier OB Marist
Jonah Lowe - wing - Clive
Lincoln McClutchie - first five-eighth - Tamatea
JJ Taulagi - outside back - Clive
Danny Toala - fullback - Hastings R&S
Sasa Tofilau - midfielder - Clive
Shae Tucker - midfielder - Napier OB Marist
Brad Weber - halfback - Napier OB Maristhttps://www.facebook.com/hbmagpies/videos/2310888068951921/
I can only assume that Gareth Evans wasn't available for the team naming. Surely, he must be in the squad?
Ben May, Brodie Retallick (although he won't play) same thing.Most notable omissions (compared to last year; not known to have moved somewhere else): Mason Kean, Jacob Devery (still injured?), Ellery Wilson, Sam McNicol (because of injury?)
Edit: just confirmed on FB that indeed Ben May and Gareth Evans are also in the squad; also Jacob Devery (have added them to the list). Theyre still forgetting to mention Brodie.
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So is Sebastian Visinia the only import that didn't make it?
@duluth No, Lui Luamanu (from Wellington) also didn't make it.
I feel most sorry for Jacob Devery. If he hadn't had his serious injury, he could have made the NZ U20s squad this year. He came back from injury recently(?) (he played the preseason game last Saturday), but hasn't been included in the squad. His spot has gone to an import, Ben Power.
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Shit, that is a green looking squad. Most of those backs probably call Weber Koro.
It's also a lot more local than was expected from the lead up. No relatively big name signings to fill out the team.
@nepia said in Magpies - 2018 Mitre 10 Cup:
Shit, that is a green looking squad. Most of those backs probably call Weber Koro.
It's also a lot more local than was expected from the lead up. No relatively big name signings to fill out the team.
Yes, 7 players were still at school last year; 4 players were still at school in 2016.
This must be the youngest and most inexperienced team we've ever had, or at least for a long time.
Sheesh, Ozich better be a hell of a coach or we'll "win" the wooden spoon.8 players are 2018 imports.
Of last year's imports (fewer than this year), only Dunn is still in the squad. -
@nepia said in Magpies - 2018 Mitre 10 Cup:
Shit, that is a green looking squad. Most of those backs probably call Weber Koro.
It's also a lot more local than was expected from the lead up. No relatively big name signings to fill out the team.
Yes, 7 players were still at school last year; 4 players were still at school in 2016.
This must be the youngest and most inexperienced team we've ever had, or at least for a long time.
Sheesh, Ozich better be a hell of a coach or we'll "win" the wooden spoon.8 players are 2018 imports.
Of last year's imports (fewer than this year), only Dunn is still in the squad. -
@stargazer Who are the imports?
Anyone keen to have a go at a top 22? I have no idea and would likely just pick all the recent schoolboys.
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Magpies facebook post also adds Ben May, Gareth Evans and Jacob Devery to the squad.
The only real import/signing is Stacey Ili - he played no club rugby.
@number-10 We disagree about this. IMO playing one season (some only half a season or less) of club rugby after being invited to come to the Bay (or coming at their own initiative after not making the WTG squad of their "old" province or getting little game time last year) doesn't make them local players in my book.
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@nepia The imports in the squad are:
Apikotoa - Wellington
Funaki - BoP
Kaifa - Auckland
Power - Wellington
Ulufonua - Auckland
Ily - Wellington
Taulagi - Sunwolves
Tofilau - Auckland -
Magpies facebook post also adds Ben May, Gareth Evans and Jacob Devery to the squad.
The only real import/signing is Stacey Ili - he played no club rugby.
@number-10 said in Magpies - 2018 Mitre 10 Cup:
Magpies facebook post also adds Ben May, Gareth Evans and Jacob Devery to the squad.
The only real import/signing is Stacey Ili - he played no club rugby.
Those are decent additions to the named squad (obviously apologies to Higgins and his war on Ben May
)!Sadly no McNicol which would have helped solidify the backline.
Also, why wasn't BBBR named? All the other squads name their ABs don't they?
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@stargazer Stacey Ili was playing in Auckland (Manukau Rovers) earlier this year.
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@number-10 said in Magpies - 2018 Mitre 10 Cup:
Magpies facebook post also adds Ben May, Gareth Evans and Jacob Devery to the squad.
The only real import/signing is Stacey Ili - he played no club rugby.
Those are decent additions to the named squad (obviously apologies to Higgins and his war on Ben May
)!Sadly no McNicol which would have helped solidify the backline.
Also, why wasn't BBBR named? All the other squads name their ABs don't they?
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What do you guys think of the forwards - backs split?
Last year, there were 19 forwards (including Retallick) and 13 backs (and 4 backs - of whom 3 halfbacks - as temporary injury cover).
This year, there are 24 forwards (including Retallick) and 13 backs.Have all squads more players than last year?
