Blues 2019
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@Duluth Abel is in career best form and nearly 30, Moulds is 27 so given some game time he’d be peaking anytime soon, so let’s dump all that development and back another guy whose not been part of the hard slog at the blues whose not been loyal to any team. Blues still have a season ahead to be competitive I’d rather Moulds coming off the bench or starting than worrying about Apisai’s opportunities.
@Northlandallday just heard that the Abel signing may not happen with the Blues and an overseas option the better option.
I would be staggered if Apisai is resigned given his absolute lack of game time, his contract comes to an end at the completion of this super season...once again the finger should be firmly pointed at Tony Hanks..the recruitment officer..quite frankly they would have been better off signing Ross Wright or Kurt Eklund ahead of Apisai.. -
@Northlandallday just heard that the Abel signing may not happen with the Blues and an overseas option the better option.
I would be staggered if Apisai is resigned given his absolute lack of game time, his contract comes to an end at the completion of this super season...once again the finger should be firmly pointed at Tony Hanks..the recruitment officer..quite frankly they would have been better off signing Ross Wright or Kurt Eklund ahead of Apisai..@Steven-Harris Better option for Abel?
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@Steven-Harris Better option for Abel?
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@Tim probably a money thing, hes also probably thinking am I gonna be stuck behind Parsons..?
@Steven-Harris Gotcha.
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@Northlandallday just heard that the Abel signing may not happen with the Blues and an overseas option the better option.
I would be staggered if Apisai is resigned given his absolute lack of game time, his contract comes to an end at the completion of this super season...once again the finger should be firmly pointed at Tony Hanks..the recruitment officer..quite frankly they would have been better off signing Ross Wright or Kurt Eklund ahead of Apisai..@Steven-Harris said in Blues 2019:
once again the finger should be firmly pointed at Tony Hanks
Hopefully the NZRU sackings aren't complete yet. Him and Redman still need to go
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@Steven-Harris said in Blues 2019:
once again the finger should be firmly pointed at Tony Hanks
Hopefully the NZRU sackings aren't complete yet. Him and Redman still need to go
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@Steven-Harris said in Blues 2019:
once again the finger should be firmly pointed at Tony Hanks
Hopefully the NZRU sackings aren't complete yet. Him and Redman still need to go
@Duluth Teflon Hanks..!
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@Kirwan said in Blues 2019:
@rotated curious for any examples of other assistants that got to select squads in Super Rugby, or are you just making stuff up.
Leon clearly inherited Tana’s squad.
I don't think anyone is denying this wasn't predominantly a squad put together over Tana's tenure (although the hole at 10 is due to Kirwan releasing future 6N MVP). That is kind of the nature of professional sport where players are on multi-year contracts. But Jesus Christ I have seen caretaker coaches takeover midseason in other codes that have had this excuse used less.
Let's say MacDonald takes over as head coach early May last year (when appointed as assistant, which would be early given NZ Super history wherecoaches are dismissed at the end of the season), what moves could he have possibly made that would tangibly have made this squad substantially different?
If MacDonald had strong convictions about any contactable player since May he would have had every opportunity to advocate for their signing as a member of the coaching team - this is not an IPL draft where world class players are on the board to select from it is a bunch of rookies, journeymen and third string halfbacks and hookers. Of course Umaga would have had the last say - but unless you believe Umaga vetoed 10 of MacDonald's suggestions then you may be in for a rude awakening next season.
@rotated said in Blues 2019:
@Kirwan said in Blues 2019:
@rotated curious for any examples of other assistants that got to select squads in Super Rugby, or are you just making stuff up.
Leon clearly inherited Tana’s squad.
I don't think anyone is denying this wasn't predominantly a squad put together over Tana's tenure (although the hole at 10 is due to Kirwan releasing future 6N MVP). That is kind of the nature of professional sport where players are on multi-year contracts. But Jesus Christ I have seen caretaker coaches takeover midseason in other codes that have had this excuse used less.
Let's say MacDonald takes over as head coach early May last year (when appointed as assistant, which would be early given NZ Super history wherecoaches are dismissed at the end of the season), what moves could he have possibly made that would tangibly have made this squad substantially different?
If MacDonald had strong convictions about any contactable player since May he would have had every opportunity to advocate for their signing as a member of the coaching team - this is not an IPL draft where world class players are on the board to select from it is a bunch of rookies, journeymen and third string halfbacks and hookers. Of course Umaga would have had the last say - but unless you believe Umaga vetoed 10 of MacDonald's suggestions then you may be in for a rude awakening next season.
Wouldn’t it have been quicker to just say you don’t have any examples?
At the beginning of the season, a lot of Blues fans pretty much wrote off this season as it wasn’t Leon’s squad. He would have had little to no influence coming in the third year of Tana’s disastrous reign.
And as contracts last multiple years, it’s going to take a couple of years to clean up the mess.
All we wanted to see is better selections from within the squad, a game plan, any game plan, and improvements from the previous seasons. He’s achieved that already, and you can see the plan and improvement. And much better fitness. That should continue, and as the squad improves, and we can attract talent again, things will get better.
Oh, and Kirwan delisted Anscombe because Nonu refused to play outside him. And then Nonu fucked over Kirwan by leaving. That said, he was a shit 10 and a goodish fullback. It wasn’t a bad decision at the time at all.
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@rotated said in Blues 2019:
@Kirwan said in Blues 2019:
@rotated curious for any examples of other assistants that got to select squads in Super Rugby, or are you just making stuff up.
Leon clearly inherited Tana’s squad.
I don't think anyone is denying this wasn't predominantly a squad put together over Tana's tenure (although the hole at 10 is due to Kirwan releasing future 6N MVP). That is kind of the nature of professional sport where players are on multi-year contracts. But Jesus Christ I have seen caretaker coaches takeover midseason in other codes that have had this excuse used less.
Let's say MacDonald takes over as head coach early May last year (when appointed as assistant, which would be early given NZ Super history wherecoaches are dismissed at the end of the season), what moves could he have possibly made that would tangibly have made this squad substantially different?
If MacDonald had strong convictions about any contactable player since May he would have had every opportunity to advocate for their signing as a member of the coaching team - this is not an IPL draft where world class players are on the board to select from it is a bunch of rookies, journeymen and third string halfbacks and hookers. Of course Umaga would have had the last say - but unless you believe Umaga vetoed 10 of MacDonald's suggestions then you may be in for a rude awakening next season.
Wouldn’t it have been quicker to just say you don’t have any examples?
At the beginning of the season, a lot of Blues fans pretty much wrote off this season as it wasn’t Leon’s squad. He would have had little to no influence coming in the third year of Tana’s disastrous reign.
And as contracts last multiple years, it’s going to take a couple of years to clean up the mess.
All we wanted to see is better selections from within the squad, a game plan, any game plan, and improvements from the previous seasons. He’s achieved that already, and you can see the plan and improvement. And much better fitness. That should continue, and as the squad improves, and we can attract talent again, things will get better.
Oh, and Kirwan delisted Anscombe because Nonu refused to play outside him. And then Nonu fucked over Kirwan by leaving. That said, he was a shit 10 and a goodish fullback. It wasn’t a bad decision at the time at all.
@Kirwan said in Blues 2019:
Wouldn’t it have been quicker to just say you don’t have any examples?
Tana at the squad announcement literally says both Jed Brown and Levi Aumua were selected due to Leon.
If you think contracts are doled out solely by the head coach with no collaboration with the assistants in 2019 then I think the onus is on you to give examples of that. That's pretty much how professional rugby has worked in NZ for the past two decades - much more collaborative.
First year coach for sure, but had more of a say than almost any other first year coach aside from internal replacements.
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It's been widely known Leon MacDonald had very little say in the squad.
A 3rd string openside and a 5th string midfielder are your examples?
Tom Coventry was interviewed after the Harbour-Auckland game and made it clear there were very few open spots available for the new coaches coming in.
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It's been widely known Leon MacDonald had very little say in the squad.
A 3rd string openside and a 5th string midfielder are your examples?
Tom Coventry was interviewed after the Harbour-Auckland game and made it clear there were very few open spots available for the new coaches coming in.
@KiwiMurph That's the thing.
You can look at the new players in the squad and assume that Coventry would mainly have had the assistant's say in selecting the forwards, Leon would mainly have had the assistant's say in selecting the backs.
Four new ones in the backs - Plummer, Aumua, Taleá and Nonu.
Aumua has Leon's recommendation written all over him. Nonu has Tana's stamp. Plummer was a pretty obvious pick after the NPC. In the backs, probably the only significant guy the Blues missed on this year was Tumua Manu and given recent history, you can't blame him for choosing the Chiefs. (Jed Brown doubtless came up from Ta$man on Leon's recommendation).
In the forwards, I think Abel and Olmstead were the principal guys I would have wanted to sign and there wasn't space for Abel - not sure why Olmstead didn't get a spot, maybe because he is Canadian.
Bad news is that I think the recruitment gains that the Blues can make in terms of personnel in 2020 are likely to be pretty marginal, because there's going to be a post-RWC clean out at all the franchises and I'm not sure who all the miraculous replacement players are going to be. There will be a handful of promising new kids putting their hands up, but demand is surely going to exceed supply. Levi Aumua and Jed Brown are good examples of what was left in the cupboard for the Blues to choose from last year.
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It's been widely known Leon MacDonald had very little say in the squad.
A 3rd string openside and a 5th string midfielder are your examples?
Tom Coventry was interviewed after the Harbour-Auckland game and made it clear there were very few open spots available for the new coaches coming in.
@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2019:
It's been widely known Leon MacDonald had very little say in the squad.
A 3rd string openside and a 5th string midfielder are your examples?
Is it widely known? We have a quote in the press of MacDonald saying he had minimal say and Tana in the press saying he picked two guys on Leon's recommendation (who you don't seem to rate too much which doesn't particularly bode well).
He is a first year coach and you inherit a squad, so yes you don't start with a blank slate. The appointment timing in November was unusual, but as I've pointed out before (and the Coventry interview you mention backs up) recruiting is largely done and dusted before ITM Cup season - so regardless if Rangi was appointed in July (which is traditional for non internal appointments) or November the change to the squad was minimal - especially considering he got two of his boys in with input on others I'm sure as part of the panel.
Even 10 weeks into Super Rugby it's tough to see what available players Tana missed on last year that MacDonald would have secured? Manu is the biggest miss? OK.
This isn't a situation like where Kirwan took over and senior pros like Woodcock were refusing to resign or where Umaga had to take over after future internationals Fekitoa, Naholo and Anscombe had been delisted (and management had not been proactive enough in working with the NZRU to potentially keep Luatua or Piatau).
Are we supposed to give shit to Rangi for not recruiting Mo'unga to move to the Blues on the contract he just signed? We have to deal in reality and with the players that are genuinely available.
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Some people will believe some of what the coach says to the media but not other stuff...
I really struggle to believe Leon had zero say in any players contracted last year.
Blues would have known early on what was happening (neg for him to take over as head coach likely initiated pretty early) so I expect any potential new signings last year would have had input of Leon, maybe not final say but I'd be very surprised if he was against someone they went ahead and signed him anyway or was adamant he wanted someone they'd have completely ignored it.
I have my doubts even as dysfunctional as the Blues organisation is, that they'd let Tana make sole decisions on signings with Leon in the wings to take over.
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@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2019:
It's been widely known Leon MacDonald had very little say in the squad.
A 3rd string openside and a 5th string midfielder are your examples?
Is it widely known? We have a quote in the press of MacDonald saying he had minimal say and Tana in the press saying he picked two guys on Leon's recommendation (who you don't seem to rate too much which doesn't particularly bode well).
He is a first year coach and you inherit a squad, so yes you don't start with a blank slate. The appointment timing in November was unusual, but as I've pointed out before (and the Coventry interview you mention backs up) recruiting is largely done and dusted before ITM Cup season - so regardless if Rangi was appointed in July (which is traditional for non internal appointments) or November the change to the squad was minimal - especially considering he got two of his boys in with input on others I'm sure as part of the panel.
Even 10 weeks into Super Rugby it's tough to see what available players Tana missed on last year that MacDonald would have secured? Manu is the biggest miss? OK.
This isn't a situation like where Kirwan took over and senior pros like Woodcock were refusing to resign or where Umaga had to take over after future internationals Fekitoa, Naholo and Anscombe had been delisted (and management had not been proactive enough in working with the NZRU to potentially keep Luatua or Piatau).
Are we supposed to give shit to Rangi for not recruiting Mo'unga to move to the Blues on the contract he just signed? We have to deal in reality and with the players that are genuinely available.
@rotated said in Blues 2019:
@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2019:
Even 10 weeks into Super Rugby it's tough to see what available players Tana missed on last year that MacDonald would have secured? Manu is the biggest miss? OK.
3 more off the top of my head.
Hooker
Halfback
Anyone but Collins -
@rotated said in Blues 2019:
@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2019:
Even 10 weeks into Super Rugby it's tough to see what available players Tana missed on last year that MacDonald would have secured? Manu is the biggest miss? OK.
3 more off the top of my head.
Hooker
Halfback
Anyone but Collins -
That question was disingenuous because it ignores the damage already done. It's not as though everyone comes off contract and then gets re-signed every year.
@Duluth said in Blues 2019:
That question was disingenuous because it ignores the damage already done. It's not as though everyone comes off contract and then gets re-signed every year.
Not saying that, simply saying MacDonald is a first year coach unlike any other, if he took over in July or November the squad would be the same.
As for Umaga I'm not sure what his major recruitment blunders were? I don't see any future ABs or even strong Super Rugby performers that slipped through his fingers?
I guess year two of his tenure is a big one for MacDonald as year one he has no responsibility and after three years "the damage is already done". Needs to make some big signings in the coming weeks and I look forward to seeing them.
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@rotated said in Blues 2019:
@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2019:
Even 10 weeks into Super Rugby it's tough to see what available players Tana missed on last year that MacDonald would have secured? Manu is the biggest miss? OK.
3 more off the top of my head.
Hooker
Halfback
Anyone but Collins@KiwiMurph Nock wasnt signed last year until almost end of M10 Cup...while I still think he has all the skills, something just ain't right with him mentally...I think Kitto would have been a better option given Nocks history with blues
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@KiwiMurph Nock wasnt signed last year until almost end of M10 Cup...while I still think he has all the skills, something just ain't right with him mentally...I think Kitto would have been a better option given Nocks history with blues
@taniwharugby said in Blues 2019:
while I still think he has all the skills, something just ain't right with him mentally
At the very least Nock should be playing consistently well for Northland by now. Instead he has a game where he looks shit hot followed by flat games with dumb mistakes
This is his fourth year of pro rugby. He still seems like a rookie
I'd rather the Blues actually pick a rookie next year. It's better than hoping the 5th year will be Nocks year
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@taniwharugby said in Blues 2019:
while I still think he has all the skills, something just ain't right with him mentally
At the very least Nock should be playing consistently well for Northland by now. Instead he has a game where he looks shit hot followed by flat games with dumb mistakes
This is his fourth year of pro rugby. He still seems like a rookie
I'd rather the Blues actually pick a rookie next year. It's better than hoping the 5th year will be Nocks year
@Duluth well as I said, I think he just isnt upto it mentally.
Would have been good to see him in another environment but i expect his next stop will likely be overseas.
