Blues 2019
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@tim said in Blues 2019:
We are waiting to see if Coventry is the new forwards coach.
That's a Crosby Stills and Nash song right there. I'll buy you a virtual beer if you can name it.
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@tim said in Blues 2019:
We are waiting to see if Coventry is the new forwards coach.
That's a Crosby Stills and Nash song right there. I'll buy you a virtual beer if you can name it.
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@tim said in Blues 2019:
We are waiting to see if Coventry is the new forwards coach.
That's a Crosby Stills and Nash song right there. I'll buy you a virtual beer if you can name it.
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Well, i was expecting more peoples heads to be exploding after Tana got an extendion but i guess everyone saw it coming.
Leon is a good signing. Hopefully they can upgrade a few of the others too.
@pukunui said in Blues 2019:
Well, i was expecting more peoples heads to be exploding after Tana got an extendion but i guess everyone saw it coming.
Leon is a good signing. Hopefully they can upgrade a few of the others too.
The other factor is there may be a deeper coaching pool available in 12 months time than there is now. The likes of Gatland, Pivac (if he was unsuccessful getting the Welsh gig) etc. So a 1 year deal for Tana isn't the worst outcome.
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@pukunui said in Blues 2019:
Well, i was expecting more peoples heads to be exploding after Tana got an extendion but i guess everyone saw it coming.
Leon is a good signing. Hopefully they can upgrade a few of the others too.
The other factor is there may be a deeper coaching pool available in 12 months time than there is now. The likes of Gatland, Pivac (if he was unsuccessful getting the Welsh gig) etc. So a 1 year deal for Tana isn't the worst outcome.
@kiwimurph It's a slightly strange arrangement for Leon.
If the Blues show no improvement, Tana gets the boot and Leon is a contender (but probably a weakened one) for the top job.
If the Blues improve significantly, Tana gets to stay on.
If Tana gets the boot, Leon ends up assisting someone (e.g. Gatland) who might not want him.
I guess there's more to the discussions than what we know - including that there will likely be an AB coaching re-shuffle, which NZ Rugby doubtless have some ideas about the outcome of.
It's been quite surprising the shallowness of applicants for Super coaching jobs in recent times, as well. E.g having to coerce Tony Brown to take on the head coach role at the Highlanders. But, Mauger, Cooper, Tana, Boyd, Razor and Plumtree are largely appointments from inside NZ - Mauger returning (I think?) only because he was sacked.
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@kiwimurph It's a slightly strange arrangement for Leon.
If the Blues show no improvement, Tana gets the boot and Leon is a contender (but probably a weakened one) for the top job.
If the Blues improve significantly, Tana gets to stay on.
If Tana gets the boot, Leon ends up assisting someone (e.g. Gatland) who might not want him.
I guess there's more to the discussions than what we know - including that there will likely be an AB coaching re-shuffle, which NZ Rugby doubtless have some ideas about the outcome of.
It's been quite surprising the shallowness of applicants for Super coaching jobs in recent times, as well. E.g having to coerce Tony Brown to take on the head coach role at the Highlanders. But, Mauger, Cooper, Tana, Boyd, Razor and Plumtree are largely appointments from inside NZ - Mauger returning (I think?) only because he was sacked.
@chris-b said in Blues 2019:
@kiwimurph It's a slightly strange arrangement for Leon.
If the Blues show no improvement, Tana gets the boot and Leon is a contender (but probably a weakened one) for the top job.
If the Blues improve significantly, Tana gets to stay on.
If Tana gets the boot, Leon ends up assisting someone (e.g. Gatland) who might not want him.
I guess there's more to the discussions than what we know
Or its a managed departure. Think about that old Matson/Kirwan deal that this board was keen on before switching to Umaga
Kirwan was a failure and after three years they came up with a plan to give Kirwan a soft landing. Recruit an up and coming coach from the Crusaders as an assistant.. the head coach is only extended for one year.. then the up and coming coach takes over in year two.
It may be the same plan but without openly talking about it.
Of course that wouldn't be a rugby decision. It would be a decision designed to protect egos and reputations. Yup, that sounds like the Blues.
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@chris-b said in Blues 2019:
@kiwimurph It's a slightly strange arrangement for Leon.
If the Blues show no improvement, Tana gets the boot and Leon is a contender (but probably a weakened one) for the top job.
If the Blues improve significantly, Tana gets to stay on.
If Tana gets the boot, Leon ends up assisting someone (e.g. Gatland) who might not want him.
I guess there's more to the discussions than what we know
Or its a managed departure. Think about that old Matson/Kirwan deal that this board was keen on before switching to Umaga
Kirwan was a failure and after three years they came up with a plan to give Kirwan a soft landing. Recruit an up and coming coach from the Crusaders as an assistant.. the head coach is only extended for one year.. then the up and coming coach takes over in year two.
It may be the same plan but without openly talking about it.
Of course that wouldn't be a rugby decision. It would be a decision designed to protect egos and reputations. Yup, that sounds like the Blues.
@duluth It would be interesting to know what discussions have taken place and who has been told what.
It would be pretty strange if they've told Leon he's getting the job for 2020, because as Murph notes above, there's likely to be some other pretty good options on the table (though whether someone like Gatland would really be content to come back to spend four years coaching the Blues in the hope of getting a crack at the ABs is a moot point).
NZ Rugby has also had a voice in this - you'd think that if they were managing Tana's departure, they would just have found him another job - could have, for instance, have probably coerced Ta$man into appointing him to replace Leon.
They must have given Leon some sort of carrot though. I can follow his logic from this article - tricky having his family in Blenheim and coaching in Christchurch - and not much prospect of Razor moving on anywhere in a hurry.
But, I'm not sure how his family situation has changed too much. That article says his kids are 11-17, so he's still going to have at least two, probably three, in high school. He's shifting them to Auckland to take up an assistant's job, which is arguably a step down from head coaching in NPC.
There's got to be a carrot!
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RS interviewed Gatland late last year (they replayed a part of the interview this morning) where Gats said it was all about timing with so few jobs in NZ.
He said post RWC, he'll come home, go to the beach, if something is available at Super he will look at it, otherwise he said he could end up back in UK go to France or Japan.
Whereas I think Gifford basically said anyone who thinks guys like him, Schmidt et al are gonna come back and go down to super are kidding themselves.
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RS interviewed Gatland late last year (they replayed a part of the interview this morning) where Gats said it was all about timing with so few jobs in NZ.
He said post RWC, he'll come home, go to the beach, if something is available at Super he will look at it, otherwise he said he could end up back in UK go to France or Japan.
Whereas I think Gifford basically said anyone who thinks guys like him, Schmidt et al are gonna come back and go down to super are kidding themselves.
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@taniwharugby Would have to be a lifestyle choice for Gatland/Schmidt etc.
@chris-b said in Blues 2019:
@taniwharugby Would have to be a lifestyle choice for Gatland/Schmidt etc.
Or ambition
Take a pay cut, but have a greater chance of being AB coach
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@chris-b said in Blues 2019:
@taniwharugby Would have to be a lifestyle choice for Gatland/Schmidt etc.
Or ambition
Take a pay cut, but have a greater chance of being AB coach
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@duluth They'd probably be looking at a pretty long wait if they're returning to Super rugby in 2020.
I'd guess Gatland's really freed himself up to contend for the ABs job if we fall over at RWC2019.
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@chris-b said in Blues 2019:
@taniwharugby Would have to be a lifestyle choice for Gatland/Schmidt etc.
Or ambition
Take a pay cut, but have a greater chance of being AB coach
@duluth said in Blues 2019:
@chris-b said in Blues 2019:
@taniwharugby Would have to be a lifestyle choice for Gatland/Schmidt etc.
Or ambition
Take a pay cut, but have a greater chance of being AB coach
YEah but would those guys really want it? Hard to tell but if I could get coaching megacoin in France vs being AB coach, I would definitely be saying au revoir
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@duluth said in Blues 2019:
@chris-b said in Blues 2019:
@taniwharugby Would have to be a lifestyle choice for Gatland/Schmidt etc.
Or ambition
Take a pay cut, but have a greater chance of being AB coach
YEah but would those guys really want it? Hard to tell but if I could get coaching megacoin in France vs being AB coach, I would definitely be saying au revoir
@hooroo you'd think Gats has been doing this long enough that money is unlikely (I know everyone is different) to be the main motivating factor, in that he's probably been paid a shit ton of £'s over the past decade or so, he is doing it because he wants to do it so can probably afford to be picky and try to align things up to suit timings for future ambitions?
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@chris-b said in Blues 2019:
@duluth They'd probably be looking at a pretty long wait if they're returning to Super rugby in 2020.
It's an even longer wait if you aren't eligible
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@chris-b
Actually, they might have in the last couple of years. There will still be a huge bias towards the locals though.
For instance you mentioned if the AB's fail at the next RWC. All that would mean is that Foster's (yuck) chances would nose dive and someone like Robertson or maybe Plumtree chances would increase. You have a much better chance in the NZ system and playing the politics.
Here's a quote from Gatland from a few months ago:
"I've never said I wanted to be an All Blacks coach. But I think you need to come back and be involved in Super Rugby first, and that's what I would like to do. That would be the natural progression. And if you are successful that's how these things work." -
@chris-b
Actually, they might have in the last couple of years. There will still be a huge bias towards the locals though.
For instance you mentioned if the AB's fail at the next RWC. All that would mean is that Foster's (yuck) chances would nose dive and someone like Robertson or maybe Plumtree chances would increase. You have a much better chance in the NZ system and playing the politics.
Here's a quote from Gatland from a few months ago:
"I've never said I wanted to be an All Blacks coach. But I think you need to come back and be involved in Super Rugby first, and that's what I would like to do. That would be the natural progression. And if you are successful that's how these things work."@duluth I'd be quite happy if Warren didn't get the job anyway.
Hard to know how much the media has painted the picture, but he has come across as a bit of a sour, whiny type.
If we fall over at RWC though, it would be pretty interesting if all of Gatland, Schmidt, Cotter, Rennie, Joseph and Boyd threw their hats in the ring.
There would certainly be a bit of public pressure to pick some of these guys over the Super coaches - especially if the 2018/19 Super titles get shared around.
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@duluth I'd be quite happy if Warren didn't get the job anyway.
Hard to know how much the media has painted the picture, but he has come across as a bit of a sour, whiny type.
If we fall over at RWC though, it would be pretty interesting if all of Gatland, Schmidt, Cotter, Rennie, Joseph and Boyd threw their hats in the ring.
There would certainly be a bit of public pressure to pick some of these guys over the Super coaches - especially if the 2018/19 Super titles get shared around.
@chris-b said in Blues 2019:
I'd be quite happy if Warren didn't get the job anyway.
Yeah, I'm not really a Gatland fan (would take him at the Blues though). I just posted that quote to show that ambition and career path also play a role in decision to come back home. Also, I think someone coming home primarily for lifestyle reasons would probably fail
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@chris-b said in Blues 2019:
I'd be quite happy if Warren didn't get the job anyway.
Yeah, I'm not really a Gatland fan (would take him at the Blues though). I just posted that quote to show that ambition and career path also play a role in decision to come back home. Also, I think someone coming home primarily for lifestyle reasons would probably fail
