All Blacks v France Test #1
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
We currently don't have the other option which is a midfielder that can play well on the wing. (eg Kahui). Seta is trying to create himself as one but can only do so when one of Crotty or Goodhue are injured. They are pretty rare and anyway the current international game requires a winger to have a skillset a bit different to what we got away with with Kahui.
We do actually have a winger/midfielder in Rieko, although you can debate how effective he is currently in the midfield.
ALB could also play on the wing in a backline reshuffle, he made his debut there for the Chiefs. I noted that one of the reasons Hansen and Foster gave for liking DMac as a utility back is that he covers wing too. He ended up there a few times last year.
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
We currently don't have the other option which is a midfielder that can play well on the wing. (eg Kahui). Seta is trying to create himself as one but can only do so when one of Crotty or Goodhue are injured. They are pretty rare and anyway the current international game requires a winger to have a skillset a bit different to what we got away with with Kahui.
We do actually have a winger/midfielder in Rieko, although you can debate how effective he is currently in the midfield.
ALB could also play on the wing in a backline reshuffle, he made his debut there for the Chiefs. I noted that one of the reasons Hansen and Foster gave for liking DMac as a utility back is that he covers wing too. He ended up there a few times last year.
We have a winger/midfielder with BFA as well (for bench purposes). It was more the experienced midfielder that can play as a starting test wing that I was thinking about (eg Kahui)
The selectors are taking an approach of the bench being there as a weapon to up the ante and add some dynamics that can take advantage of tiring opposition rather than planning for injuries. Hence the desire to inject DMac at 15. Put him on the bench and you then look for midfield and halfback impact.
It's a good strategy as long as you don't get too many injuries. A fresh halfback ups the speed of the game, the 80 minute first-five has already got the feel of where opportunities to attack are and you have a midfield broadsword and fullback rapier to take advantage.
I still think SBW nowdays suits the starting 12 better than the finishing one. ALB and Goddhue may even miss a RWC selection due to lack of room. I believe the thinking lies toward SBW/Crotty with Laumape on bench. -
@toddy said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@broughie nah, not Crotty. Everything he does is perfect.
Agree
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ah ok, so this former ref reckons Ofa shoulda been red carded...just goes to show how confusing the rules are when most pundits are finger pointing Cane, yet this guy reckons it was Ofa.
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I would take all these "experts" chiming in with their clickbaity headlines with an extremely large grain of salt. It's just a bunch of people looking for the 5 minutes of fame.
When people are accusing the All Blacks of cheating and getting away with murder it means we are winning and all is right in the world.
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I would take all these "experts" chiming in with their clickbaity headlines with an extremely large grain of salt. It's just a bunch of people looking for the 5 minutes of fame.
When people are accusing the All Blacks of cheating and getting away with murder it means we are winning and all is right in the world.
@no-quarter agreed, just amusing that a supposed former international ref can see it differently.
Doesn't help when people like Pichot who should remain impartial stick their oar in.
Wouldn't expect anything less than hyperbole from S Jones though.
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@no-quarter agreed, just amusing that a supposed former international ref can see it differently.
Doesn't help when people like Pichot who should remain impartial stick their oar in.
Wouldn't expect anything less than hyperbole from S Jones though.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@no-quarter agreed, just amusing that a supposed former international ref can see it differently.
cough Jonathan Kaplan cough
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ah ok, so this former ref reckons Ofa shoulda been red carded...just goes to show how confusing the rules are when most pundits are finger pointing Cane, yet this guy reckons it was Ofa.
@taniwharugby top professional? 12 years? Why the fuck have I never heard of Rob Debney?
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@taniwharugby top professional? 12 years? Why the fuck have I never heard of Rob Debney?
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ah ok, so this former ref reckons Ofa shoulda been red carded...just goes to show how confusing the rules are when most pundits are finger pointing Cane, yet this guy reckons it was Ofa.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
ah ok, so this former ref reckons Ofa shoulda been red carded...just goes to show how confusing the rules are when most pundits are finger pointing Cane, yet this guy reckons it was Ofa.
Which would be why I've never heard of him.
Edit: what Bones said:)
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@taniwharugby yeah, I like to think I might at least recognise a name if I saw/heard it! He must've got all the good gigs.
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ah ok, so this former ref reckons Ofa shoulda been red carded...just goes to show how confusing the rules are when most pundits are finger pointing Cane, yet this guy reckons it was Ofa.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
ah ok, so this former ref reckons Ofa shoulda been red carded...just goes to show how confusing the rules are when most pundits are finger pointing Cane, yet this guy reckons it was Ofa.
If he was a referee until 2011, he probably missed all the law changes since then. Clearly doesn't know the difference between reckless and accidental, like most people who say these players deserved a red card.
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@taniwharugby top professional? 12 years? Why the fuck have I never heard of Rob Debney?
@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@taniwharugby top professional? 12 years? Why the fuck have I never heard of Rob Debney?
This is coming from the same bloke who thought Sean O'Brien swinging an arm into Waisake's head shouldn't have been cited.
Like so many others, he's simply trying to be relevant in a game that's past him by.
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Easy to make a call well after the fact. Replay is meant to help, but it is a blight on the game when you use it without context. Ofa made heavy contact with his shoulder to the frog's head but his arms were there. The hit would have been perfectly legal if he wasn't going down in Cane's tackle, and in real time there was no chance for him to pull out of it. If they'd used video review and Cane got a YC I would have totally accepted that. But the shoulder to head was purely an accident in a fast moving game. A card of any colour for him would have been criminal. As for favouritism towards the ABs I reckon it's B.S. We play the game hard and at times close to the limit of the law but unlike many we are rarely filth. I suppose these fucktards forget last year's Lions test and the "deal" cut by a French ref that went criminally against us
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The lust for 'blood'.
What happened the last time certain press corps, cajoled by a spin doctor, couldn't accept that mistakes just can't be allowed to happen, and something must be done ..... in law ... to stop something like that happening again?
New inflexible laws.
Warburton red carded early in a semi final. France losing to Tonga with 14 men.
I look forward to RWC 2019 semi final when stupid inflexible knee jerk reaction new laws mean that Ross Moriarty is red carded 10 minutes into the semi final for a knee-high head high tackle ....
I still laugh, Because I'm a bit of a fluffybunny, I was at the France v Tonga game ironically chanting off, off, off the moment the Tongan's toes went above waist height. I like to think I played my part.
No doubt it will bite my team in the arse one day, so in the mean time enjoy the stupidity being inflicted evenly on everyone.
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While I wouldn't have complained much if Sam got a YC for that tackle, particularly after the earlier card, this is a problem when players drop into tackles. The French winger is hardly a short man and Cane was already bent over at the waist when he clocked him.
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While I wouldn't have complained much if Sam got a YC for that tackle, particularly after the earlier card, this is a problem when players drop into tackles. The French winger is hardly a short man and Cane was already bent over at the waist when he clocked him.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
While I wouldn't have complained much if Sam got a YC for that tackle, particularly after the earlier card, this is a problem when players drop into tackles. The French winger is hardly a short man and Cane was already bent over at the waist when he clocked him.
You can't legislate for accidents. It ain't tiddly winks!
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While I wouldn't have complained much if Sam got a YC for that tackle, particularly after the earlier card, this is a problem when players drop into tackles. The French winger is hardly a short man and Cane was already bent over at the waist when he clocked him.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
While I wouldn't have complained much if Sam got a YC for that tackle, particularly after the earlier card, this is a problem when players drop into tackles. The French winger is hardly a short man and Cane was already bent over at the waist when he clocked him.
That's the whole thing people seem to miss: Grosso was already in a downward movement. That was the reason why Cane's arm made contact with Grosso's neck and head (strictly speaking, Cane's arm didn't even slip up). The contact with Cane, may or may not have sped up Grosso's downward movement, but from one of the angles you can clearly see that Ofa is also making a downward movement and bends at the correct height. From another angle, the one used in a lot of posts on social media, it seems like Ofa is aiming for the head, but if you watch all the available footage, he's aiming for the chest and is trying to wrap with his arms. He doesn't succeed basically because Grosso is lower than he expected and Cane ends up at the other side of Grosso, which Ofa clearly didn't expect. That's also why their heads clashed. If you consider the speed at which everything happened, there's no way any of the players could have adjusted their height or movement, or could have avoided what happened.
Slowing down footage is helpful in establishing where contact was made, by whom and direction of movement. It's not helpful at all if you need to take into consideration speed and force of movement.
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Bit late to the party, busy weekend.
Thought we were good. First half was the usual rust, but they still created plenty of chances, just lacked the polish to put them away.
Second half was the usual stuff when the ABs are the superior team, the other side can't keep up. DMac was the perfect injection at that point, Laumape not far behind.
On the controversial calls:
The French card shouldn't have been a penalty let alone a card (yes yes, i know the laws now say it is, but it's ridiculous we now have not just penalties, but cards, for tackles that might hit someone in the head, but don't).
Cane's was a penalty, and given the earlier French one, should have been a card. Ofa did nothing wrong, and anything against him would have been a travesty. The grim spectre of concussion has fucked with the governing body's heads, and their response has been over the top and panicked.
Savea's try should have been rubbed out, that was some bullshit, and if it had been the other way i would have blown up.Players
Didn't like the back 3, BFA and Pimply Giraffe are too similar. Why have the "2 fullbacks" when we always have a 10 back there as well? I know the Canes mafia will jump up and down, but JB looks like a kid playing, and i don't think he's that good that he shouldn't serve a bit more of an apprenticeship before he gets the main gig.
I actually really liked our midfield. Crotty and ALB work very well together. Neither were perfect on the night, but as a partnership i thought they were brilliant.
Loosies worked better than i thought. Squire put in a shift that i didn't think he was capable of. S Barrett in one of his best outings as well, and i may have come around.
Almost my favourite moment of the night was a bloke on debut, in his first moment of test rugby, driving the head of his opposite back through his ass. Stuff dreams are made of.Never been so happy to lose $5
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Bit late to the party, busy weekend.
Thought we were good. First half was the usual rust, but they still created plenty of chances, just lacked the polish to put them away.
Second half was the usual stuff when the ABs are the superior team, the other side can't keep up. DMac was the perfect injection at that point, Laumape not far behind.
On the controversial calls:
The French card shouldn't have been a penalty let alone a card (yes yes, i know the laws now say it is, but it's ridiculous we now have not just penalties, but cards, for tackles that might hit someone in the head, but don't).
Cane's was a penalty, and given the earlier French one, should have been a card. Ofa did nothing wrong, and anything against him would have been a travesty. The grim spectre of concussion has fucked with the governing body's heads, and their response has been over the top and panicked.
Savea's try should have been rubbed out, that was some bullshit, and if it had been the other way i would have blown up.Players
Didn't like the back 3, BFA and Pimply Giraffe are too similar. Why have the "2 fullbacks" when we always have a 10 back there as well? I know the Canes mafia will jump up and down, but JB looks like a kid playing, and i don't think he's that good that he shouldn't serve a bit more of an apprenticeship before he gets the main gig.
I actually really liked our midfield. Crotty and ALB work very well together. Neither were perfect on the night, but as a partnership i thought they were brilliant.
Loosies worked better than i thought. Squire put in a shift that i didn't think he was capable of. S Barrett in one of his best outings as well, and i may have come around.
Almost my favourite moment of the night was a bloke on debut, in his first moment of test rugby, driving the head of his opposite back through his ass. Stuff dreams are made of.Never been so happy to lose $5
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
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@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
brilliant may have been over-doing it, but they created a lot of opportunities for a couple of blokes playing their first game together in a while. To me (and bear in mind i was watching on a phone while in a restaurant) the errors looked more to be execution than judgement, and I'm not chucking Crotty under the bus for having square wheels, or ALB dropping the ball when about to get fucking smoked because they ran a move that would embarrass an U14 side.
I guess i can't see any player running around who would make a better combination.
Yes, i know we have played the 2 fullbacks thing for ages, fucking duh. But with different personnel back there.
