All Blacks v France Test #1
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While I wouldn't have complained much if Sam got a YC for that tackle, particularly after the earlier card, this is a problem when players drop into tackles. The French winger is hardly a short man and Cane was already bent over at the waist when he clocked him.
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While I wouldn't have complained much if Sam got a YC for that tackle, particularly after the earlier card, this is a problem when players drop into tackles. The French winger is hardly a short man and Cane was already bent over at the waist when he clocked him.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
While I wouldn't have complained much if Sam got a YC for that tackle, particularly after the earlier card, this is a problem when players drop into tackles. The French winger is hardly a short man and Cane was already bent over at the waist when he clocked him.
You can't legislate for accidents. It ain't tiddly winks!
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While I wouldn't have complained much if Sam got a YC for that tackle, particularly after the earlier card, this is a problem when players drop into tackles. The French winger is hardly a short man and Cane was already bent over at the waist when he clocked him.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
While I wouldn't have complained much if Sam got a YC for that tackle, particularly after the earlier card, this is a problem when players drop into tackles. The French winger is hardly a short man and Cane was already bent over at the waist when he clocked him.
That's the whole thing people seem to miss: Grosso was already in a downward movement. That was the reason why Cane's arm made contact with Grosso's neck and head (strictly speaking, Cane's arm didn't even slip up). The contact with Cane, may or may not have sped up Grosso's downward movement, but from one of the angles you can clearly see that Ofa is also making a downward movement and bends at the correct height. From another angle, the one used in a lot of posts on social media, it seems like Ofa is aiming for the head, but if you watch all the available footage, he's aiming for the chest and is trying to wrap with his arms. He doesn't succeed basically because Grosso is lower than he expected and Cane ends up at the other side of Grosso, which Ofa clearly didn't expect. That's also why their heads clashed. If you consider the speed at which everything happened, there's no way any of the players could have adjusted their height or movement, or could have avoided what happened.
Slowing down footage is helpful in establishing where contact was made, by whom and direction of movement. It's not helpful at all if you need to take into consideration speed and force of movement.
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Bit late to the party, busy weekend.
Thought we were good. First half was the usual rust, but they still created plenty of chances, just lacked the polish to put them away.
Second half was the usual stuff when the ABs are the superior team, the other side can't keep up. DMac was the perfect injection at that point, Laumape not far behind.
On the controversial calls:
The French card shouldn't have been a penalty let alone a card (yes yes, i know the laws now say it is, but it's ridiculous we now have not just penalties, but cards, for tackles that might hit someone in the head, but don't).
Cane's was a penalty, and given the earlier French one, should have been a card. Ofa did nothing wrong, and anything against him would have been a travesty. The grim spectre of concussion has fucked with the governing body's heads, and their response has been over the top and panicked.
Savea's try should have been rubbed out, that was some bullshit, and if it had been the other way i would have blown up.Players
Didn't like the back 3, BFA and Pimply Giraffe are too similar. Why have the "2 fullbacks" when we always have a 10 back there as well? I know the Canes mafia will jump up and down, but JB looks like a kid playing, and i don't think he's that good that he shouldn't serve a bit more of an apprenticeship before he gets the main gig.
I actually really liked our midfield. Crotty and ALB work very well together. Neither were perfect on the night, but as a partnership i thought they were brilliant.
Loosies worked better than i thought. Squire put in a shift that i didn't think he was capable of. S Barrett in one of his best outings as well, and i may have come around.
Almost my favourite moment of the night was a bloke on debut, in his first moment of test rugby, driving the head of his opposite back through his ass. Stuff dreams are made of.Never been so happy to lose $5
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Bit late to the party, busy weekend.
Thought we were good. First half was the usual rust, but they still created plenty of chances, just lacked the polish to put them away.
Second half was the usual stuff when the ABs are the superior team, the other side can't keep up. DMac was the perfect injection at that point, Laumape not far behind.
On the controversial calls:
The French card shouldn't have been a penalty let alone a card (yes yes, i know the laws now say it is, but it's ridiculous we now have not just penalties, but cards, for tackles that might hit someone in the head, but don't).
Cane's was a penalty, and given the earlier French one, should have been a card. Ofa did nothing wrong, and anything against him would have been a travesty. The grim spectre of concussion has fucked with the governing body's heads, and their response has been over the top and panicked.
Savea's try should have been rubbed out, that was some bullshit, and if it had been the other way i would have blown up.Players
Didn't like the back 3, BFA and Pimply Giraffe are too similar. Why have the "2 fullbacks" when we always have a 10 back there as well? I know the Canes mafia will jump up and down, but JB looks like a kid playing, and i don't think he's that good that he shouldn't serve a bit more of an apprenticeship before he gets the main gig.
I actually really liked our midfield. Crotty and ALB work very well together. Neither were perfect on the night, but as a partnership i thought they were brilliant.
Loosies worked better than i thought. Squire put in a shift that i didn't think he was capable of. S Barrett in one of his best outings as well, and i may have come around.
Almost my favourite moment of the night was a bloke on debut, in his first moment of test rugby, driving the head of his opposite back through his ass. Stuff dreams are made of.Never been so happy to lose $5
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
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@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
brilliant may have been over-doing it, but they created a lot of opportunities for a couple of blokes playing their first game together in a while. To me (and bear in mind i was watching on a phone while in a restaurant) the errors looked more to be execution than judgement, and I'm not chucking Crotty under the bus for having square wheels, or ALB dropping the ball when about to get fucking smoked because they ran a move that would embarrass an U14 side.
I guess i can't see any player running around who would make a better combination.
Yes, i know we have played the 2 fullbacks thing for ages, fucking duh. But with different personnel back there.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
We currently don't have the other option which is a midfielder that can play well on the wing. (eg Kahui). Seta is trying to create himself as one but can only do so when one of Crotty or Goodhue are injured. They are pretty rare and anyway the current international game requires a winger to have a skillset a bit different to what we got away with with Kahui.
We do actually have a winger/midfielder in Rieko, although you can debate how effective he is currently in the midfield.
ALB could also play on the wing in a backline reshuffle, he made his debut there for the Chiefs. I noted that one of the reasons Hansen and Foster gave for liking DMac as a utility back is that he covers wing too. He ended up there a few times last year.
We have a winger/midfielder with BFA as well (for bench purposes). It was more the experienced midfielder that can play as a starting test wing that I was thinking about (eg Kahui)
The selectors are taking an approach of the bench being there as a weapon to up the ante and add some dynamics that can take advantage of tiring opposition rather than planning for injuries. Hence the desire to inject DMac at 15. Put him on the bench and you then look for midfield and halfback impact.
It's a good strategy as long as you don't get too many injuries. A fresh halfback ups the speed of the game, the 80 minute first-five has already got the feel of where opportunities to attack are and you have a midfield broadsword and fullback rapier to take advantage.
I still think SBW nowdays suits the starting 12 better than the finishing one. ALB and Goddhue may even miss a RWC selection due to lack of room. I believe the thinking lies toward SBW/Crotty with Laumape on bench.@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
The selectors are taking an approach of the bench being there as a weapon to up the ante and add some dynamics that can take advantage of tiring opposition rather than planning for injuries. Hence the desire to inject DMac at 15. Put him on the bench and you then look for midfield and halfback impact.
It's a good strategy as long as you don't get too many injuries. A fresh halfback ups the speed of the game, the 80 minute first-five has already got the feel of where opportunities to attack are and you have a midfield broadsword and fullback rapier to take advantage.
I still think SBW nowdays suits the starting 12 better than the finishing one. ALB and Goddhue may even miss a RWC selection due to lack of room. I believe the thinking lies toward SBW/Crotty with Laumape on bench.Agree with most of that and I think, for sure, one of the five current midfielders won't make the initial RWC squad. But, I think we're a long way from deciding who that will be and, most likely, given the number of injuries being sustained, an injury will make that decision for us.
Other thing that bears watching is SBW's form and speed. He's going to be a bit older than Nonu and Smith were by the time RWC2019 rolls around and there's no guarantee that he's going to remain first choice (which he currently is). Already saw murmurings on some Blues threads about his lack of speed. There's a logjam of talent in the midfield and people like Laumape and Goodhue are mainly just needing opportunities.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
brilliant may have been over-doing it, but they created a lot of opportunities for a couple of blokes playing their first game together in a while. To me (and bear in mind i was watching on a phone while in a restaurant) the errors looked more to be execution than judgement, and I'm not chucking Crotty under the bus for having square wheels, or ALB dropping the ball when about to get fucking smoked because they ran a move that would embarrass an U14 side.
I guess i can't see any player running around who would make a better combination.
Yes, i know we have played the 2 fullbacks thing for ages, fucking duh. But with different personnel back there.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
brilliant may have been over-doing it, but they created a lot of opportunities for a couple of blokes playing their first game together in a while. To me (and bear in mind i was watching on a phone while in a restaurant) the errors looked more to be execution than judgement, and I'm not chucking Crotty under the bus for having square wheels, or ALB dropping the ball when about to get fucking smoked because they ran a move that would embarrass an U14 side.
I guess i can't see any player running around who would make a better combination.
Yes, i know we have played the 2 fullbacks thing for ages, fucking duh. But with different personnel back there.
I agree, they compliment each other well and IIRC carved up a couple of seasons ago when they strung a few games together. We don't get the strong ball runner you get in Laumape, but we get a lot of other big benefits.
And regarding your Jordie comments, I've alerted the Canes mafia. Expect the backlash to be swift and ruthless.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
brilliant may have been over-doing it, but they created a lot of opportunities for a couple of blokes playing their first game together in a while. To me (and bear in mind i was watching on a phone while in a restaurant) the errors looked more to be execution than judgement, and I'm not chucking Crotty under the bus for having square wheels, or ALB dropping the ball when about to get fucking smoked because they ran a move that would embarrass an U14 side.
I guess i can't see any player running around who would make a better combination.
Yes, i know we have played the 2 fullbacks thing for ages, fucking duh. But with different personnel back there.
I agree, they compliment each other well and IIRC carved up a couple of seasons ago when they strung a few games together. We don't get the strong ball runner you get in Laumape, but we get a lot of other big benefits.
And regarding your Jordie comments, I've alerted the Canes mafia. Expect the backlash to be swift and ruthless.
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
brilliant may have been over-doing it, but they created a lot of opportunities for a couple of blokes playing their first game together in a while. To me (and bear in mind i was watching on a phone while in a restaurant) the errors looked more to be execution than judgement, and I'm not chucking Crotty under the bus for having square wheels, or ALB dropping the ball when about to get fucking smoked because they ran a move that would embarrass an U14 side.
I guess i can't see any player running around who would make a better combination.
Yes, i know we have played the 2 fullbacks thing for ages, fucking duh. But with different personnel back there.
I agree, they compliment each other well and IIRC carved up a couple of seasons ago when they strung a few games together. We don't get the strong ball runner you get in Laumape, but we get a lot of other big benefits.
And regarding your Jordie comments, I've alerted the Canes mafia. Expect the backlash to be swift and ruthless.
Aren't you the Don? Especially when discussing your chief button man Jordie Barretto.
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I would take all these "experts" chiming in with their clickbaity headlines with an extremely large grain of salt. It's just a bunch of people looking for the 5 minutes of fame.
When people are accusing the All Blacks of cheating and getting away with murder it means we are winning and all is right in the world.
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
I would take all these "experts" chiming in with their clickbaity headlines with an extremely large grain of salt. It's just a bunch of people looking for the 5 minutes of fame.
When people are accusing the All Blacks of cheating and getting away with murder it means we are winning and all is right in the world.
QFT!
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
brilliant may have been over-doing it, but they created a lot of opportunities for a couple of blokes playing their first game together in a while. To me (and bear in mind i was watching on a phone while in a restaurant) the errors looked more to be execution than judgement, and I'm not chucking Crotty under the bus for having square wheels, or ALB dropping the ball when about to get fucking smoked because they ran a move that would embarrass an U14 side.
I guess i can't see any player running around who would make a better combination.
Yes, i know we have played the 2 fullbacks thing for ages, fucking duh. But with different personnel back there.
I agree, they compliment each other well and IIRC carved up a couple of seasons ago when they strung a few games together. We don't get the strong ball runner you get in Laumape, but we get a lot of other big benefits.
And regarding your Jordie comments, I've alerted the Canes mafia. Expect the backlash to be swift and ruthless.
Aren't you the Don? Especially when discussing your chief button man Jordie Barretto.
@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
brilliant may have been over-doing it, but they created a lot of opportunities for a couple of blokes playing their first game together in a while. To me (and bear in mind i was watching on a phone while in a restaurant) the errors looked more to be execution than judgement, and I'm not chucking Crotty under the bus for having square wheels, or ALB dropping the ball when about to get fucking smoked because they ran a move that would embarrass an U14 side.
I guess i can't see any player running around who would make a better combination.
Yes, i know we have played the 2 fullbacks thing for ages, fucking duh. But with different personnel back there.
I agree, they compliment each other well and IIRC carved up a couple of seasons ago when they strung a few games together. We don't get the strong ball runner you get in Laumape, but we get a lot of other big benefits.
And regarding your Jordie comments, I've alerted the Canes mafia. Expect the backlash to be swift and ruthless.
Aren't you the Don? Especially when discussing your chief button man Jordie Barretto.
We share the duties around. I come down hard on anyone that misspeaks about Jordie. @Rancid-Schnitzel has Beauden covered, and we've recruited @Stargazer to white knight Scott as he plays for the Crusaders at the moment.
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@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
brilliant may have been over-doing it, but they created a lot of opportunities for a couple of blokes playing their first game together in a while. To me (and bear in mind i was watching on a phone while in a restaurant) the errors looked more to be execution than judgement, and I'm not chucking Crotty under the bus for having square wheels, or ALB dropping the ball when about to get fucking smoked because they ran a move that would embarrass an U14 side.
I guess i can't see any player running around who would make a better combination.
Yes, i know we have played the 2 fullbacks thing for ages, fucking duh. But with different personnel back there.
I agree, they compliment each other well and IIRC carved up a couple of seasons ago when they strung a few games together. We don't get the strong ball runner you get in Laumape, but we get a lot of other big benefits.
And regarding your Jordie comments, I've alerted the Canes mafia. Expect the backlash to be swift and ruthless.
Aren't you the Don? Especially when discussing your chief button man Jordie Barretto.
We share the duties around. I come down hard on anyone that misspeaks about Jordie. @Rancid-Schnitzel has Beauden covered, and we've recruited @Stargazer to white knight Scott as he plays for the Crusaders at the moment.
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
brilliant may have been over-doing it, but they created a lot of opportunities for a couple of blokes playing their first game together in a while. To me (and bear in mind i was watching on a phone while in a restaurant) the errors looked more to be execution than judgement, and I'm not chucking Crotty under the bus for having square wheels, or ALB dropping the ball when about to get fucking smoked because they ran a move that would embarrass an U14 side.
I guess i can't see any player running around who would make a better combination.
Yes, i know we have played the 2 fullbacks thing for ages, fucking duh. But with different personnel back there.
I agree, they compliment each other well and IIRC carved up a couple of seasons ago when they strung a few games together. We don't get the strong ball runner you get in Laumape, but we get a lot of other big benefits.
And regarding your Jordie comments, I've alerted the Canes mafia. Expect the backlash to be swift and ruthless.
Aren't you the Don? Especially when discussing your chief button man Jordie Barretto.
We share the duties around. I come down hard on anyone that misspeaks about Jordie. @Rancid-Schnitzel has Beauden covered, and we've recruited @Stargazer to white knight Scott as he plays for the Crusaders at the moment.
You can take Blake too if you want.
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@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mariner4life We've played two fullbacks and a power winger for a long time. It works.
I disagree with Crotty and ALB. They individually had very average games in terms of execution and decision making. How that combined becomes brilliant you'll have to explain.
brilliant may have been over-doing it, but they created a lot of opportunities for a couple of blokes playing their first game together in a while. To me (and bear in mind i was watching on a phone while in a restaurant) the errors looked more to be execution than judgement, and I'm not chucking Crotty under the bus for having square wheels, or ALB dropping the ball when about to get fucking smoked because they ran a move that would embarrass an U14 side.
I guess i can't see any player running around who would make a better combination.
Yes, i know we have played the 2 fullbacks thing for ages, fucking duh. But with different personnel back there.
I agree, they compliment each other well and IIRC carved up a couple of seasons ago when they strung a few games together. We don't get the strong ball runner you get in Laumape, but we get a lot of other big benefits.
And regarding your Jordie comments, I've alerted the Canes mafia. Expect the backlash to be swift and ruthless.
Aren't you the Don? Especially when discussing your chief button man Jordie Barretto.
We share the duties around. I come down hard on anyone that misspeaks about Jordie. @Rancid-Schnitzel has Beauden covered, and we've recruited @Stargazer to white knight Scott as he plays for the Crusaders at the moment.
@no-quarter someone at your end is definitely dragging the chain on Ardie.
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@taniwharugby top professional? 12 years? Why the fuck have I never heard of Rob Debney?
@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@taniwharugby top professional? 12 years? Why the fuck have I never heard of Rob Debney?
The artist formerly known as Stu Dickinson.
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@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@taniwharugby top professional? 12 years? Why the fuck have I never heard of Rob Debney?
The artist formerly known as Stu Dickinson.
@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@taniwharugby top professional? 12 years? Why the fuck have I never heard of Rob Debney?
The artist formerly known as Stu Dickinson.
Did a quick Google search on him. Looks like he ran the lines in a few tests but there is no mention of any significant main ref appointments. Sounds like a gobshite to me
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Reason is hilarious. I'm convinced he has never been to a test match at EP, because except for some games at RWC11 and the Lions tour kiwi rugby crowds are pretty quiet
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@rocky-rockbottom said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
We share the duties around. I come down hard on anyone that misspeaks about Jordie. @Rancid-Schnitzel has Beauden covered, and we've recruited @Stargazer to white knight Scott as he plays for the Crusaders at the moment.
Highly Informative post. Too dense to really pick up on the white knighting, apart of course from the blazing obvious examples:
Nepia: Piri Weepu
Stagrazer: allcantabsMagpies, which is zero at the moment with Brodie out.now got me wondering how far someone could go, white knighting the indefensible, what i'm trying to ask is is there such a thing as a white knight for Michael Collins?
White knight, more like black unicorn.
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@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@no-quarter someone at your end is definitely dragging the chain on Ardie.
@Canes4life was in charge of Ardie but he's...errr... mysteriously disappeared.
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@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@no-quarter someone at your end is definitely dragging the chain on Ardie.
@Canes4life was in charge of Ardie but he's...errr... mysteriously disappeared.
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@no-quarter someone at your end is definitely dragging the chain on Ardie.
@Canes4life was in charge of Ardie but he's...errr... mysteriously disappeared.
I saw old mate Ardie on the other side of Lambton Quay several weeks ago. For the good of the fern I shoulda popped across to ask him how tall he was but lamentabIy I was already late. I didn't have time to calculate the heights of those walking past him, granted many were a fair bit shorter but Asians often are.
