All Blacks v France Test 3
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@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
I'm just bloody stunned by how thin we are two full seasons after a RWC. Losing half a dozen all timey greats was never goin to be easy to recover from but there was depth at the time at 10, in midfield and at loose head prop but now we're thin as fuck and even worse when it comes to combinations involving those positions plus in the loose forwards. We've had something like 30 tests since the last RWC yet where are the proven loose forwards after Reado (also aging) and a bit of depth at 7? Kaino was never gonna make another RWC cycle yet we don't have a clear successor at 6. Squire is close but didn't cover himself in glory last week. No quality 8 back up either. We're lucky at hooker that Taylor has really stepped up in Coles' absence of that'd be another problem position. Back up props are an issue also with Faumuina and Crockett gone. Massive stroke of luck that Karl T has come outta nowhere or we'd be in all sorts. And Ofa ain't a long term solution. At lock we have a stunning top trio when fit and two world class half-backs. No dramas in the outside backs aside from settling on a top combination. Midfield is messy. We've had plenty of unavailability for various reasons but at times SBW and Crotty have looked good together and also Crotty and ALB in 2016. But I don't think SBW is a certainty to make it to the RWC and that leaves us really scratching unless we bring another grunty AND rounded midfielder in (this isn't Laumape) and give him a dozen games so we have someone to compliment Crotty and ALB. At 10 we need now to give Mo'unga minutes and as many as possible. D Mac isnt the back up option there, but could be a third option as a utility come RWC time with another Super Rugby season under his belt.
I think there are two major causes of things not being as settled as we would like at this stage in the rwc cycle.
First is the Lions tour. A few guys obviously stuck around for that before leaving to cash in up north where they possibly would have left a year or two earlier if the Lions tour wasn't happening. Eg. Kaino, Charlie F, Crockett, Cruden, TKB, Sopoaga, Fekitoa and Luatua (to a lesser extent) all held out until after the Lions to bugger off or retire. That has meant the post 2015 rebuild has been staggered so you only get 2 years to rebuild rather than the usual 4.The other major factor is the shear amount of long term injuries guys have been getting. Established guys like Coles, Read, Dagg, Ben Smith, Crotty and SBW have been out regularly or for extended periods meaning combinations haven't been able to form with guys coming in. Then on top of that you have newer guys like Squire, Laulala, Hames, Moli, Aumua, Jordie, nms and Bird being long term injured and missing out on important development time and chances to nail down a spot.
Of course you then also have to add guys like Ardie, Elliot Dixon, Harris and Tuipulotu not exactly stepping up to where we would want them to.
Fair points, and I had considered both the Lions tour carrot and injuries to the emerging guys. I think the latter is most poignant as the former was predictable.
But long term injuries to established guys are opportunities to blood replacements. Taylor has stepped up for Coles. The outside backs are fine in terms of depth but lack combination. But midfield is messy as is 8.
@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
But midfield is messy as is 8.
Not helped by injuries and, to a certain extent, not allowing combinations to develop. The 1st choice midfield should be pretty settled by now but you sense Hansen & co. are still doing too much tinkering.
We just need a solid, if unspectacular, 12/13 combination and I just don't see that at all.
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@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
But midfield is messy as is 8.
Not helped by injuries and, to a certain extent, not allowing combinations to develop. The 1st choice midfield should be pretty settled by now but you sense Hansen & co. are still doing too much tinkering.
We just need a solid, if unspectacular, 12/13 combination and I just don't see that at all.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
But midfield is messy as is 8.
Not helped by injuries and, to a certain extent, not allowing combinations to develop. The 1st choice midfield should be pretty settled by now but you sense Hansen & co. are still doing too much tinkering.
We just need a solid, if unspectacular, 12/13 combination and I just don't see that at all.
ALB & SBW doesn't fit this bill?
Goodhue is just a Canterbury pick if you ask me.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
But midfield is messy as is 8.
Not helped by injuries and, to a certain extent, not allowing combinations to develop. The 1st choice midfield should be pretty settled by now but you sense Hansen & co. are still doing too much tinkering.
We just need a solid, if unspectacular, 12/13 combination and I just don't see that at all.
ALB & SBW doesn't fit this bill?
Goodhue is just a Canterbury pick if you ask me.
@majorrage
The fact that ALB & SBW aren't a settled pair kinda proves my point.
A year and a bit out from RWC2019 and it's 2 out of ALB/SBW/Crotty - sometimes in different positions.
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@majorrage
The fact that ALB & SBW aren't a settled pair kinda proves my point.
A year and a bit out from RWC2019 and it's 2 out of ALB/SBW/Crotty - sometimes in different positions.
@victor-meldrew SWB and Crotty are the starters if fit for any test
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@victor-meldrew SWB and Crotty are the starters if fit for any test
@wreck-diver said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@victor-meldrew SWB and Crotty are the starters if fit for any test
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@majorrage
The fact that ALB & SBW aren't a settled pair kinda proves my point.
A year and a bit out from RWC2019 and it's 2 out of ALB/SBW/Crotty - sometimes in different positions.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@majorrage
The fact that ALB & SBW aren't a settled pair kinda proves my point.
A year and a bit out from RWC2019 and it's 2 out of ALB/SBW/Crotty - sometimes in different positions.
I'm beginning to wonder if that is such a bad thing.
Although we were lucky to have Nonu/Smith, the times they couldn't play together caused no end of headaches at times (eg Ben Smith filling in)
There aren't many teams around that don't get issues around injuries in the centres these days and hoping for a pair that are available more often than not may be wishful thinking.
Having the available combos with Crotty moving between the two jerseys is great. -
@wreck-diver said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@victor-meldrew SWB and Crotty are the starters if fit for any test
@bones :grinning_face:
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@wreck-diver said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@victor-meldrew SWB and Crotty are the starters if fit for any test
@bones said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@wreck-diver said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@victor-meldrew SWB and Crotty are the starters if fit for any test
They are missing this
swb
meaning 'Safe White Boy' is an adjective pronounced (swub). This is a rugby player, usually a back and playing for a Canterbury based team. They are notably boring and are selected instead of more mercurial brown players.
eg
Did you see who is selected on the wing?
Oh yea. another swb! He's unlikely to cause problemsDo not confuse with SBW
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@wreck-diver said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@victor-meldrew SWB and Crotty are the starters if fit for any test
Lokk, I'm dislcksic KO?
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@bones said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@wreck-diver said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@victor-meldrew SWB and Crotty are the starters if fit for any test
They are missing this
swb
meaning 'Safe White Boy' is an adjective pronounced (swub). This is a rugby player, usually a back and playing for a Canterbury based team. They are notably boring and are selected instead of more mercurial brown players.
eg
Did you see who is selected on the wing?
Oh yea. another swb! He's unlikely to cause problemsDo not confuse with SBW
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@majorrage
The fact that ALB & SBW aren't a settled pair kinda proves my point.
A year and a bit out from RWC2019 and it's 2 out of ALB/SBW/Crotty - sometimes in different positions.
I'm beginning to wonder if that is such a bad thing.
Although we were lucky to have Nonu/Smith, the times they couldn't play together caused no end of headaches at times (eg Ben Smith filling in)
There aren't many teams around that don't get issues around injuries in the centres these days and hoping for a pair that are available more often than not may be wishful thinking.
Having the available combos with Crotty moving between the two jerseys is great.You could well be right. But I do worry it just doesn't give us that edge that continuity does.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Do not confuse with SBW
...or BFA for that matter.
Correct. Not all WBs are SWBs
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Benjamin, Waisake, Jack, Sonny Bill, Rieko, Damian, Aaron
Luke, Ardie, Shannon, Scott, Samuel, Owen, Codie, JosephKarl, Liam, Ofa, Jackson, Matthew, TJ, Richard, Jordan.
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http://www.allblacks.com/News/32593/all-blacks-team-named-for-third-test
The matchday 23 is as follows (with Test caps in brackets. New Test All Blacks are in bold):-
Joe Moody (33)
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Codie Taylor (31)
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Owen Franks (97)
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Samuel Whitelock (98) - captain
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Scott Barrett (18)
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Shannon Frizell
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Ardie Savea (24)
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Luke Whitelock (4)
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Aaron Smith (73)
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Damian McKenzie (14)
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Rieko Ioane (15)
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Sonny Bill Williams (46)
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Jack Goodhue
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Waisake Naholo (18)
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Ben Smith (65)
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Liam Coltman (1)
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Karl Tu'inukuafe (2)
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Ofa Tuungafasi (16)
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Jackson Hemopo
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Matt Todd (13)
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TJ Perenara (44)
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Richie Mo'unga
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Jordie Barrett (4)
excited about that midfield.
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I'm excited by the team in that it seems crazy, look at the loose forward trio! Seeing SBW start doesn't seem weird until you realise it's his first game back from injury, and last time he was so quickly upto speed, yeah right. Then he paired with a debutante! Frizzle had played Almost no top class minutes, hemopo only a little more. Impact DMac and Ardie start for steady Todd and mo'unga.
I hope they play well cos I'm owed after blowing 140 on a ticket last weekend!
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That’s a loose forward trio you should only see play in a midweek game back in the 90’s.
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Interesting that team is a real B grade/2nd choice team, with most of the A/first choice players coming back from injury/suspension
Joe Moody A - injury/suspension
Codie Taylor B (tho been almost as good as a top Coles for a while)
Owen Franks A - injury/suspension
Samuel Whitelock A - injury/suspension
Scott Barrett B
Shannon Frizell C or D
Ardie Savea B
Luke Whitelock B
Aaron Smith A
Damian McKenzie B
Rieko Ioane A
Sonny Bill Williams A - injury/suspension
Jack Goodhue C
Waisake Naholo B
Ben Smith A -
Interesting that team is a real B grade/2nd choice team, with most of the A/first choice players coming back from injury/suspension
Joe Moody A - injury/suspension
Codie Taylor B (tho been almost as good as a top Coles for a while)
Owen Franks A - injury/suspension
Samuel Whitelock A - injury/suspension
Scott Barrett B
Shannon Frizell C or D
Ardie Savea B
Luke Whitelock B
Aaron Smith A
Damian McKenzie B
Rieko Ioane A
Sonny Bill Williams A - injury/suspension
Jack Goodhue C
Waisake Naholo B
Ben Smith A@machpants how the fuck did Luke Whitelock get a B?
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Not so much a B grade but he is second choice, according to the ABs selectors - not my grading just where the selectors seem to be picking. If read not fit, whitelock plays. Same a Goodhue, not a C grade player but still third choice midfield after Crotty/SBW/ALB trio of 12,13 and bench.
So A= AB starter/first choice
B=AB bench/second choice
C or D= are 3rd or 4th choice - getting a go for building depth, or because of injuries
