Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland
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@barbarian my comment was because Hooper was on the sidelines doing his best immitation of Cheika when calls went against them. The Wallabies need to learn how to mentally park bad decisions and get on with the game - when Cheika is smashing the desk in the box then he doesn't appear to be the man to teach that.
Pro sports is all about the top two inches. If you get flustered, you generally lose. The Wallabies would do well to try and replicate your "live and let live" attitude out on the paddock.
@no-quarter Of course, but I think there actions in the last 15 of each test don't match your statement.
In each test we've closed out the game really well, dominating possession and territory, strong at the set piece. It was bough to win us game 1, and not quite enough in games 2 and 3.
Our discipline is a problem, sure. But we've cut down our 'hot head' penalties, and I'd argue our issues are now more about picking our moments better at ruck time in defence.
If we were giving away a slew of sloppy penalties in the late stages I could get on board for sure. But remember only one team has conceded a backchat penalty in this series, and it wasn't us.
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so will Izzy's card be overturned?
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@samurai-jack said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
Folau pulled the man down with his left hand for the yellow. Can’t do that in the lineout (always pinged) and a clear cut yellow (possibly more) in the air. Cheika is a knob
My only comment on that situation is that a one-man lift is really unstable and exacerbated the impact of Folau's contact.
The Irish player was put in a dangerous position by his own lifter- it wasn't a standard contest like Barrett vs Fall last week.
I think it was a penalty, but there were extenuating circumstances that could have made things really nasty through no fault of Folau.
@barbarian said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
My only comment on that situation is that a one-man lift is really unstable and exacerbated the impact of Folau's contact. The Irish player was put in a dangerous position by his own lifter- it wasn't a standard contest like Barrett vs Fall last week. I think it was a penalty, but there were extenuating circumstances that could have made things really nasty through no fault of Folau.
Folau did it 3 times in a row. The Irish players were clearly in dominant position to take the ball. Once their players are in in a better position, and in the air, Folau can’t just jump on the run into that zone and initiate contact. It is his responsibility to look after the safety of the guy receiving the ball. If you have a look the tape, each of the 3 times the Irish player receiving was knocked to the ground in an incredibly dangerous way. With current laws the officials did a very poor job.
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@barbarian said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
My only comment on that situation is that a one-man lift is really unstable and exacerbated the impact of Folau's contact. The Irish player was put in a dangerous position by his own lifter- it wasn't a standard contest like Barrett vs Fall last week. I think it was a penalty, but there were extenuating circumstances that could have made things really nasty through no fault of Folau.
Folau did it 3 times in a row. The Irish players were clearly in dominant position to take the ball. Once their players are in in a better position, and in the air, Folau can’t just jump on the run into that zone and initiate contact. It is his responsibility to look after the safety of the guy receiving the ball. If you have a look the tape, each of the 3 times the Irish player receiving was knocked to the ground in an incredibly dangerous way. With current laws the officials did a very poor job.
@kev depends if he has his eyes on the ball, if so, he can jump for gold.
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@barbarian said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
My only comment on that situation is that a one-man lift is really unstable and exacerbated the impact of Folau's contact. The Irish player was put in a dangerous position by his own lifter- it wasn't a standard contest like Barrett vs Fall last week. I think it was a penalty, but there were extenuating circumstances that could have made things really nasty through no fault of Folau.
Folau did it 3 times in a row. The Irish players were clearly in dominant position to take the ball. Once their players are in in a better position, and in the air, Folau can’t just jump on the run into that zone and initiate contact. It is his responsibility to look after the safety of the guy receiving the ball. If you have a look the tape, each of the 3 times the Irish player receiving was knocked to the ground in an incredibly dangerous way. With current laws the officials did a very poor job.
@kev said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@barbarian said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
My only comment on that situation is that a one-man lift is really unstable and exacerbated the impact of Folau's contact. The Irish player was put in a dangerous position by his own lifter- it wasn't a standard contest like Barrett vs Fall last week. I think it was a penalty, but there were extenuating circumstances that could have made things really nasty through no fault of Folau.
Folau did it 3 times in a row. The Irish players were clearly in dominant position to take the ball. Once their players are in in a better position, and in the air, Folau can’t just jump on the run into that zone and initiate contact. It is his responsibility to look after the safety of the guy receiving the ball. If you have a look the tape, each of the 3 times the Irish player receiving was knocked to the ground in an incredibly dangerous way. With current laws the officials did a very poor job.
I know you get an out with the "current laws" bit, but i see it differently. The Aussies has a deliberate tactic, short high kick offs using Izzy's extraordinary leap to get the ball back. The Irish counter was a stationary player, lifted by one guy, a very unstable way to combat. Of course Folay is the arriving player, he has to come from 10m away. Basically if we go down the path you are suggesting, kick offs become uncontested. That's against the very foundation of the game.
I had no problem with the first two. The 3rd everyone saw the little tug, and that's where the card came from. The stupid thing is, POM is hitting the deck there tug or no tug, because Stander can't hold him steady. I would outlaw the single lift before i outlawed contesting the kick
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@kev said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@barbarian said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
My only comment on that situation is that a one-man lift is really unstable and exacerbated the impact of Folau's contact. The Irish player was put in a dangerous position by his own lifter- it wasn't a standard contest like Barrett vs Fall last week. I think it was a penalty, but there were extenuating circumstances that could have made things really nasty through no fault of Folau.
Folau did it 3 times in a row. The Irish players were clearly in dominant position to take the ball. Once their players are in in a better position, and in the air, Folau can’t just jump on the run into that zone and initiate contact. It is his responsibility to look after the safety of the guy receiving the ball. If you have a look the tape, each of the 3 times the Irish player receiving was knocked to the ground in an incredibly dangerous way. With current laws the officials did a very poor job.
I know you get an out with the "current laws" bit, but i see it differently. The Aussies has a deliberate tactic, short high kick offs using Izzy's extraordinary leap to get the ball back. The Irish counter was a stationary player, lifted by one guy, a very unstable way to combat. Of course Folay is the arriving player, he has to come from 10m away. Basically if we go down the path you are suggesting, kick offs become uncontested. That's against the very foundation of the game.
I had no problem with the first two. The 3rd everyone saw the little tug, and that's where the card came from. The stupid thing is, POM is hitting the deck there tug or no tug, because Stander can't hold him steady. I would outlaw the single lift before i outlawed contesting the kick
@mariner4life it’s incredibly dangerous for a guy on the run jumping into a player in a vulnerable position and intiating contact. You can’t do it in the lineout which is static. You add the momentum of the runner and you are putting guys at risk. The. Irish did a great job nullifying the Aussie tactic of using Folau at kickoffs. They just needed to change it up. Points to Irish on closing that option down. Folau has been cited for earlier contact as he should be.
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@kev said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@barbarian said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
My only comment on that situation is that a one-man lift is really unstable and exacerbated the impact of Folau's contact. The Irish player was put in a dangerous position by his own lifter- it wasn't a standard contest like Barrett vs Fall last week. I think it was a penalty, but there were extenuating circumstances that could have made things really nasty through no fault of Folau.
Folau did it 3 times in a row. The Irish players were clearly in dominant position to take the ball. Once their players are in in a better position, and in the air, Folau can’t just jump on the run into that zone and initiate contact. It is his responsibility to look after the safety of the guy receiving the ball. If you have a look the tape, each of the 3 times the Irish player receiving was knocked to the ground in an incredibly dangerous way. With current laws the officials did a very poor job.
I know you get an out with the "current laws" bit, but i see it differently. The Aussies has a deliberate tactic, short high kick offs using Izzy's extraordinary leap to get the ball back. The Irish counter was a stationary player, lifted by one guy, a very unstable way to combat. Of course Folay is the arriving player, he has to come from 10m away. Basically if we go down the path you are suggesting, kick offs become uncontested. That's against the very foundation of the game.
I had no problem with the first two. The 3rd everyone saw the little tug, and that's where the card came from. The stupid thing is, POM is hitting the deck there tug or no tug, because Stander can't hold him steady. I would outlaw the single lift before i outlawed contesting the kick
@mariner4life but take your point about lift. Would you take it out of the lineout?
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@mariner4life it’s incredibly dangerous for a guy on the run jumping into a player in a vulnerable position and intiating contact. You can’t do it in the lineout which is static. You add the momentum of the runner and you are putting guys at risk. The. Irish did a great job nullifying the Aussie tactic of using Folau at kickoffs. They just needed to change it up. Points to Irish on closing that option down. Folau has been cited for earlier contact as he should be.
@kev said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@mariner4life it’s incredibly dangerous for a guy on the run jumping into a player in a vulnerable position and intiating contact. You can’t do it in the lineout which is static. You add the momentum of the runner and you are putting guys at risk. The. Irish did a great job nullifying the Aussie tactic of using Folau at kickoffs. They just needed to change it up. Points to Irish on closing that option down. Folau has been cited for earlier contact as he should be.
well, if you ran 10m in to the lineout you would probably get penalised, yea.
Great job? Folau won one, and they lost their openside and captain in the 3rd as a direct result of their "nullifying", i reckon Aus got the better of that one.
The guy was at risk because he was being lifted in an incredibly precarious position.
To answer your new post, no. I've been lifted in a lot of lineouts. And two lifters is very stable. If POM had two lifters, he would have played the whole test. I've been lifted by one person in a lineout, and you rarely land well even from that.
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@kev said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@mariner4life it’s incredibly dangerous for a guy on the run jumping into a player in a vulnerable position and intiating contact. You can’t do it in the lineout which is static. You add the momentum of the runner and you are putting guys at risk. The. Irish did a great job nullifying the Aussie tactic of using Folau at kickoffs. They just needed to change it up. Points to Irish on closing that option down. Folau has been cited for earlier contact as he should be.
well, if you ran 10m in to the lineout you would probably get penalised, yea.
Great job? Folau won one, and they lost their openside and captain in the 3rd as a direct result of their "nullifying", i reckon Aus got the better of that one.
The guy was at risk because he was being lifted in an incredibly precarious position.
To answer your new post, no. I've been lifted in a lot of lineouts. And two lifters is very stable. If POM had two lifters, he would have played the whole test. I've been lifted by one person in a lineout, and you rarely land well even from that.
@mariner4life I was always a lifter and always conscious of where my other lifter was so I knew how my man was coming back to earth, was never keen on single lifts, but did them and as you say, were never ideal.
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@mariner4life I was always a lifter and always conscious of where my other lifter was so I knew how my man was coming back to earth, was never keen on single lifts, but did them and as you say, were never ideal.
@taniwharugby said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@mariner4life I was always a lifter and always conscious of where my other lifter was so I knew how my man was coming back to earth, was never keen on single lifts, but did them and as you say, were never ideal.
A great example is that gif of Beast holding that guy by his shorts over his back. Everyone loves it because of how strong the guy looks. But if he loses his grip, that guy lands on his head from a decent heaight, and there isn't an opposition player in the frame. I know why it is done, you get height on kick-off receptions without committing too many players to a single part of the field. But it's a tactic that is fraught with danger for the dude going up.
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@taniwharugby said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@mariner4life I was always a lifter and always conscious of where my other lifter was so I knew how my man was coming back to earth, was never keen on single lifts, but did them and as you say, were never ideal.
A great example is that gif of Beast holding that guy by his shorts over his back. Everyone loves it because of how strong the guy looks. But if he loses his grip, that guy lands on his head from a decent heaight, and there isn't an opposition player in the frame. I know why it is done, you get height on kick-off receptions without committing too many players to a single part of the field. But it's a tactic that is fraught with danger for the dude going up.
@mariner4life Agree with all that except that Folau only won the ball by charging the guy in the air, who was clearly in a much better position to take the ball. Until single lift is outlawed, then the Irish were playing within the laws and Folau wasn’t.
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@mariner4life Agree with all that except that Folau only won the ball by charging the guy in the air, who was clearly in a much better position to take the ball. Until single lift is outlawed, then the Irish were playing within the laws and Folau wasn’t.
@kev said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@mariner4life Agree with all that except that Folau only won the ball by charging the guy in the air, who was clearly in a much better position to take the ball. Until single lift is outlawed, then the Irish were playing within the laws and Folau wasn’t.
well, until the last one, where he layed a hand on POM, he clearly was within the laws, and effective doing it.
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@kev said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@mariner4life Agree with all that except that Folau only won the ball by charging the guy in the air, who was clearly in a much better position to take the ball. Until single lift is outlawed, then the Irish were playing within the laws and Folau wasn’t.
well, until the last one, where he layed a hand on POM, he clearly was within the laws, and effective doing it.
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@mariner4life he has been cited for another contact which suggests not.
@kev said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@mariner4life he has been cited for another contact which suggests not.
really? Pathetic.
I'm actually getting really fucked off with World Rugby, their citing process, and what they are deeming foul play. Don't want people hurt? Remove all chances for contests. Because that's the logical conclusion of their current crusade.
This concussion thing has them running scared. At least, i hope it's that, and not the need to cater to helicopter parents, visuals, and junior participation.
Rugby is a collision sport, you play knowing there is a high liklihood you are going to get hurt during a game. By all means scrub out deliberate foul play, the game is better for the lack of the coat hangers and punches of years gone by. But injuries will happen, you can't get rid of them no matter how many players you bring to the judiciary.
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@kirwan Sorry but I just can't agree with that analysis.
If we were giving away indisciplined penalties in the last 15, fine. But we weren't.
The Irish defended bloody well and we just needed to be a bit more patient than we were. That's rugby - most of our errors were forced by good Irish play.
I think blaming Cheika for that is a stretch. I get that most of you don't like him, and that's fine. He certainly has his flaws, but I actually think his selection and tactics in this series has been a big improvement on how we've approached similar games in the past.
The man we missed in the late stages was Genia. Halfback is the most underrated position in the game IMO, and we had a 12 year old out there at the most crucial time, and he made some bad errors.
There is plenty of blame to go around, like any loss. Cheika certainly deserves some, but I think in this instance he's lower on the list of people who I would point to.
@barbarian said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@kirwan Sorry but I just can't agree with that analysis.
If we were giving away indisciplined penalties in the last 15, fine. But we weren't.
The Irish defended bloody well and we just needed to be a bit more patient than we were. That's rugby - most of our errors were forced by good Irish play.
I think blaming Cheika for that is a stretch. I get that most of you don't like him, and that's fine. He certainly has his flaws, but I actually think his selection and tactics in this series has been a big improvement on how we've approached similar games in the past.
The man we missed in the late stages was Genia. Halfback is the most underrated position in the game IMO, and we had a 12 year old out there at the most crucial time, and he made some bad errors.
There is plenty of blame to go around, like any loss. Cheika certainly deserves some, but I think in this instance he's lower on the list of people who I would point to.
I didn’t mention penalties, I mentioned being flustered and lacking composure. Foley threw a pass that wasn’t on, if you kept possession I think you win the game.
That’s what I’m criticising Chieka and your senior players for lacking.
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That last period of play was damn near perfect until Foley panicked, and thought that was your only chance to score. The reserve props were barrelling over the gain line, and would have been a handful close to the line. Add in Folau consistently getting to the outside shoulder, and an Irish team who were just desperate to hang on, i reckon they were a shout. But he tried a miracle pass, while being tackled, and the winger was covered anyway, a dumb play in the moment from an experienced player.
Fuck, even Rob Simmons consistently got his nose through the line, be patient son!!
@mariner4life yeah I thought it was superb buildup play by the Wallabies and even though I wanted an Ireland victory, I thought OZ were going to do it and steal the game. But Foley panics and throws a pass that need not be thrown.
Impatience, lack of composure, overexcited, whatever it was you really don’t want your 1st 5 making that sort of mistake in a clutch moment.
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@kev said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@barbarian said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
My only comment on that situation is that a one-man lift is really unstable and exacerbated the impact of Folau's contact. The Irish player was put in a dangerous position by his own lifter- it wasn't a standard contest like Barrett vs Fall last week. I think it was a penalty, but there were extenuating circumstances that could have made things really nasty through no fault of Folau.
Folau did it 3 times in a row. The Irish players were clearly in dominant position to take the ball. Once their players are in in a better position, and in the air, Folau can’t just jump on the run into that zone and initiate contact. It is his responsibility to look after the safety of the guy receiving the ball. If you have a look the tape, each of the 3 times the Irish player receiving was knocked to the ground in an incredibly dangerous way. With current laws the officials did a very poor job.
I know you get an out with the "current laws" bit, but i see it differently. The Aussies has a deliberate tactic, short high kick offs using Izzy's extraordinary leap to get the ball back. The Irish counter was a stationary player, lifted by one guy, a very unstable way to combat. Of course Folay is the arriving player, he has to come from 10m away. Basically if we go down the path you are suggesting, kick offs become uncontested. That's against the very foundation of the game.
I had no problem with the first two. The 3rd everyone saw the little tug, and that's where the card came from. The stupid thing is, POM is hitting the deck there tug or no tug, because Stander can't hold him steady. I would outlaw the single lift before i outlawed contesting the kick
@mariner4life said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@kev said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@barbarian said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
I had no problem with the first two. The 3rd everyone saw the little tug, and that's where the card came from. The stupid thing is, POM is hitting the deck there tug or no tug, because Stander can't hold him steady. I would outlaw the single lift before i outlawed contesting the kick
POM got tipped because of the Folau tug resulting in him being stretchered off. I highly doubt that happens without Folau's contact.
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@mariner4life said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@kev said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@barbarian said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
I had no problem with the first two. The 3rd everyone saw the little tug, and that's where the card came from. The stupid thing is, POM is hitting the deck there tug or no tug, because Stander can't hold him steady. I would outlaw the single lift before i outlawed contesting the kick
POM got tipped because of the Folau tug resulting in him being stretchered off. I highly doubt that happens without Folau's contact.
@kiwimurph but were his eyes on the ball? BB wouldnt have landed on his head but for Falls contact.
Judiciary have made themselves and interesting problem this week.
I think Falls was the worst of the 2 as the Irish lifter played his part (albeit a minor one) and Folau was at least high enough to genuinely contest the ball.
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@barbarian said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
@kirwan Sorry but I just can't agree with that analysis.
If we were giving away indisciplined penalties in the last 15, fine. But we weren't.
The Irish defended bloody well and we just needed to be a bit more patient than we were. That's rugby - most of our errors were forced by good Irish play.
I think blaming Cheika for that is a stretch. I get that most of you don't like him, and that's fine. He certainly has his flaws, but I actually think his selection and tactics in this series has been a big improvement on how we've approached similar games in the past.
The man we missed in the late stages was Genia. Halfback is the most underrated position in the game IMO, and we had a 12 year old out there at the most crucial time, and he made some bad errors.
There is plenty of blame to go around, like any loss. Cheika certainly deserves some, but I think in this instance he's lower on the list of people who I would point to.
I didn’t mention penalties, I mentioned being flustered and lacking composure. Foley threw a pass that wasn’t on, if you kept possession I think you win the game.
That’s what I’m criticising Chieka and your senior players for lacking.
@kirwan said in Who does the TSF want to Win? Aus vs Ireland:
That’s what I’m criticising Chieka and your senior players for lacking.
But they had the composure to stabilise after the Sexton penalty, win the kick-off and build to a point where they were within striking distance.
It was one bad pass by Foley, sure, but I don't think that makes us a 'rudderless mess' nor should it lie at the feet of Cheika.
