NH International Rugby
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
However well done Wales on a triple crown. You played the intelligent rugby today.
Life in the Time of COVID
Crazy
@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
However well done Wales on a triple crown. You played the intelligent rugby today.
Life in the Time of COVID
Crazy
Coming on all Marquez?!
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Good to see the usual Eddie Jones cycle continues
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@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not. -
@majorrage said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
Another dreadful interview by this horrible person. Shame, I thought the BBC coverage of this game otherwise was faultless.
Didn’t see it ... what happened? She’s updated this ....
I wonder if she’s used any of these words on her post match stitch ups, I mean interviews.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Sonjamclaughlan/status/1365757473462829066
What a fuckwit. She tries to embarrass and disgrace with her toxic interviews and then comes out with this tripe. Your job isn't to be a cunting troll.
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@majorrage said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
Another dreadful interview by this horrible person. Shame, I thought the BBC coverage of this game otherwise was faultless.
Didn’t see it ... what happened? She’s updated this ....
I wonder if she’s used any of these words on her post match stitch ups, I mean interviews.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Sonjamclaughlan/status/1365757473462829066
What a fuckwit. She tries to embarrass and disgrace with her toxic interviews and then comes out with this tripe. Your job isn't to be a cunting troll.
Yeah - just watched it...
I kinda like that she's asking questions that I'd actually like to hear the answers to, (just like her interview with Eddie back in the day), BUT....
In this day and age she must know that the players/coaches simply aren't going to answer... and therefore, she's just stirring shit knowing that nobody can fight back.First good interview I've seen from Farrell - he seemed to know what was coming, and was pretty staunch in just shutting it down immediately. You could put subtitles over that interview, with him saying "Yeah, nah, fuck off with the muck-stirring, I ain't biting".
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@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not.@kruse said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not.Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still defined as "towards the opposition's dead ball line"
The critical part of the law, as I read it, is whether the player has "lost possession of the ball" (not "lost control"). If a player drops it they haven't necessarily lost possession (otherwise just about every kick from hand would be a knock on). Posession is defined as "a team or individual in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control". So you could argue that LRZ was still attempting to bring the ball under control at least until it hit his leg, in which case no knock-on.
Having said that, I was pretty surprised it was allowed to stand..
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@kruse said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not.Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still defined as "towards the opposition's dead ball line"
The critical part of the law, as I read it, is whether the player has "lost possession of the ball" (not "lost control"). If a player drops it they haven't necessarily lost possession (otherwise just about every kick from hand would be a knock on). Posession is defined as "a team or individual in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control". So you could argue that LRZ was still attempting to bring the ball under control at least until it hit his leg, in which case no knock-on.
Having said that, I was pretty surprised it was allowed to stand..
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@kruse said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not.Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still defined as "towards the opposition's dead ball line"
The critical part of the law, as I read it, is whether the player has "lost possession of the ball" (not "lost control"). If a player drops it they haven't necessarily lost possession (otherwise just about every kick from hand would be a knock on). Posession is defined as "a team or individual in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control". So you could argue that LRZ was still attempting to bring the ball under control at least until it hit his leg, in which case no knock-on.
Having said that, I was pretty surprised it was allowed to stand..
So if he was attempting to bring it under control, he was in possession? In which case knock-on? Or have I read you wrong?
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@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@majorrage said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
Another dreadful interview by this horrible person. Shame, I thought the BBC coverage of this game otherwise was faultless.
Didn’t see it ... what happened? She’s updated this ....
I wonder if she’s used any of these words on her post match stitch ups, I mean interviews.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Sonjamclaughlan/status/1365757473462829066
What a fuckwit. She tries to embarrass and disgrace with her toxic interviews and then comes out with this tripe. Your job isn't to be a cunting troll.
Yeah - just watched it...
I kinda like that she's asking questions that I'd actually like to hear the answers to, (just like her interview with Eddie back in the day), BUT....
In this day and age she must know that the players/coaches simply aren't going to answer... and therefore, she's just stirring shit knowing that nobody can fight back.First good interview I've seen from Farrell - he seemed to know what was coming, and was pretty staunch in just shutting it down immediately. You could put subtitles over that interview, with him saying "Yeah, nah, fuck off with the muck-stirring, I ain't biting".
@kruse said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@majorrage said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
Another dreadful interview by this horrible person. Shame, I thought the BBC coverage of this game otherwise was faultless.
Didn’t see it ... what happened? She’s updated this ....
I wonder if she’s used any of these words on her post match stitch ups, I mean interviews.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Sonjamclaughlan/status/1365757473462829066
What a fuckwit. She tries to embarrass and disgrace with her toxic interviews and then comes out with this tripe. Your job isn't to be a cunting troll.
Yeah - just watched it...
I kinda like that she's asking questions that I'd actually like to hear the answers to, (just like her interview with Eddie back in the day), BUT....
In this day and age she must know that the players/coaches simply aren't going to answer... and therefore, she's just stirring shit knowing that nobody can fight back.First good interview I've seen from Farrell - he seemed to know what was coming, and was pretty staunch in just shutting it down immediately. You could put subtitles over that interview, with him saying "Yeah, nah, fuck off with the muck-stirring, I ain't biting".
Yep, first time in my life I've ever thought "Good on you Owen, I like what you did there"
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@kruse said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not.Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still defined as "towards the opposition's dead ball line"
The critical part of the law, as I read it, is whether the player has "lost possession of the ball" (not "lost control"). If a player drops it they haven't necessarily lost possession (otherwise just about every kick from hand would be a knock on). Posession is defined as "a team or individual in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control". So you could argue that LRZ was still attempting to bring the ball under control at least until it hit his leg, in which case no knock-on.
Having said that, I was pretty surprised it was allowed to stand..
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@kruse said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not.Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still defined as "towards the opposition's dead ball line"
The critical part of the law, as I read it, is whether the player has "lost possession of the ball" (not "lost control"). If a player drops it they haven't necessarily lost possession (otherwise just about every kick from hand would be a knock on). Posession is defined as "a team or individual in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control". So you could argue that LRZ was still attempting to bring the ball under control at least until it hit his leg, in which case no knock-on.
The ball fortuitously hit his leg on the way to the ground. Don’t think you can really say he was attempting to bring it under control. Regardless of the legalese, the spirit of rugby would surely have that as a knock on IMO. Otherwise it was basically guy with flagrant knock on gets away with his crime on a technicality.
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@kruse said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not.Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still defined as "towards the opposition's dead ball line"
The critical part of the law, as I read it, is whether the player has "lost possession of the ball" (not "lost control"). If a player drops it they haven't necessarily lost possession (otherwise just about every kick from hand would be a knock on). Posession is defined as "a team or individual in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control". So you could argue that LRZ was still attempting to bring the ball under control at least until it hit his leg, in which case no knock-on.
The ball fortuitously hit his leg on the way to the ground. Don’t think you can really say he was attempting to bring it under control. Regardless of the legalese, the spirit of rugby would surely have that as a knock on IMO. Otherwise it was basically guy with flagrant knock on gets away with his crime on a technicality.
I think crime is overstating it a bit. Players regularly make errors and get away with it through dumb luck.
I wouldn't have felt aggrieved if it had been given as a knock on (I'm Welsh BTW). LRZ obviously thought it was. Just pointing out that if we have to look at the details of the laws, and even then it comes down to figuring out at what point, if any, he stops trying to gain control of the ball, then it's a close call and not the heinous travesty of justice that some are claiming
Edit: also if you check the replay, he actually knocked it down with both hands onto the back of his thigh, and from there it bounced down onto his calf. He clearly was trying to control it when he bought it down onto his thigh. The more I look at it, the more clear it is that the ref & TMO got it right (at least by the letter of the law - the spirit is a different question)
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@kruse said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not.Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still defined as "towards the opposition's dead ball line"
The critical part of the law, as I read it, is whether the player has "lost possession of the ball" (not "lost control"). If a player drops it they haven't necessarily lost possession (otherwise just about every kick from hand would be a knock on). Posession is defined as "a team or individual in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control". So you could argue that LRZ was still attempting to bring the ball under control at least until it hit his leg, in which case no knock-on.
Having said that, I was pretty surprised it was allowed to stand..
So if he was attempting to bring it under control, he was in possession? In which case knock-on? Or have I read you wrong?
@delicatessen said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@kruse said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not.Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still defined as "towards the opposition's dead ball line"
The critical part of the law, as I read it, is whether the player has "lost possession of the ball" (not "lost control"). If a player drops it they haven't necessarily lost possession (otherwise just about every kick from hand would be a knock on). Posession is defined as "a team or individual in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control". So you could argue that LRZ was still attempting to bring the ball under control at least until it hit his leg, in which case no knock-on.
Having said that, I was pretty surprised it was allowed to stand..
So if he was attempting to bring it under control, he was in possession? In which case knock-on? Or have I read you wrong?
Nearly, not quite. If he was still trying to bring it under control when it hit his leg, then he was still in possession (as per the definition of "possession" in the laws). And a knock on only occurs after a player loses possession (as per the definition of "knock on"). So it wasn't a knock on before it hit his leg, and it can't be a knock on off the leg, so no knock on.
That's what the laws say. Of course once you're getting down into the minute detail of the laws then things can start getting niggly and away from what "feels" like the right call
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To Bones :
The ball went clearly forward, IMO. But it fell on Zammit's leg, so could it be considered like a kick ?@cgrant said in NH International Rugby:
To Bones :
The ball went clearly forward, IMO. But it fell on Zammit's leg, so could it be considered like a kick ?I'd say no because a kick has to be intentional.
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@cgrant said in NH International Rugby:
To Bones :
The ball went clearly forward, IMO. But it fell on Zammit's leg, so could it be considered like a kick ?I'd say no because a kick has to be intentional.
@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:
@cgrant said in NH International Rugby:
To Bones :
The ball went clearly forward, IMO. But it fell on Zammit's leg, so could it be considered like a kick ?I'd say no because a kick has to be intentional.
Is there anything about intent in the laws? I don't think there is, so it makes no difference.
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I think crime is overstating it a bit. Players regularly make errors and get away with it through dumb luck.
I wouldn't have felt aggrieved if it had been given as a knock on (I'm Welsh BTW). LRZ obviously thought it was. Just pointing out that if we have to look at the details of the laws, and even then it comes down to figuring out at what point, if any, he stops trying to gain control of the ball, then it's a close call and not the heinous travesty of justice that some are claiming
Edit: also if you check the replay, he actually knocked it down with both hands onto the back of his thigh, and from there it bounced down onto his calf. He clearly was trying to control it when he bought it down onto his thigh. The more I look at it, the more clear it is that the ref & TMO got it right (at least by the letter of the law - the spirit is a different question)
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
I think crime is overstating it a bit. Players regularly make errors and get away with it through dumb luck.
I wouldn't have felt aggrieved if it had been given as a knock on (I'm Welsh BTW). LRZ obviously thought it was. Just pointing out that if we have to look at the details of the laws, and even then it comes down to figuring out at what point, if any, he stops trying to gain control of the ball, then it's a close call and not the heinous travesty of justice that some are claiming
Edit: also if you check the replay, he actually knocked it down with both hands onto the back of his thigh, and from there it bounced down onto his calf. He clearly was trying to control it when he bought it down onto his thigh. The more I look at it, the more clear it is that the ref & TMO got it right (at least by the letter of the law - the spirit is a different question)
I wasnt saying it was a crime! I was comparing it to a legal case where a guilty party gets off on a technicality.
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
I think crime is overstating it a bit. Players regularly make errors and get away with it through dumb luck.
I wouldn't have felt aggrieved if it had been given as a knock on (I'm Welsh BTW). LRZ obviously thought it was. Just pointing out that if we have to look at the details of the laws, and even then it comes down to figuring out at what point, if any, he stops trying to gain control of the ball, then it's a close call and not the heinous travesty of justice that some are claiming
Edit: also if you check the replay, he actually knocked it down with both hands onto the back of his thigh, and from there it bounced down onto his calf. He clearly was trying to control it when he bought it down onto his thigh. The more I look at it, the more clear it is that the ref & TMO got it right (at least by the letter of the law - the spirit is a different question)
I wasnt saying it was a crime! I was comparing it to a legal case where a guilty party gets off on a technicality.
@billy-tell said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
I think crime is overstating it a bit. Players regularly make errors and get away with it through dumb luck.
I wouldn't have felt aggrieved if it had been given as a knock on (I'm Welsh BTW). LRZ obviously thought it was. Just pointing out that if we have to look at the details of the laws, and even then it comes down to figuring out at what point, if any, he stops trying to gain control of the ball, then it's a close call and not the heinous travesty of justice that some are claiming
Edit: also if you check the replay, he actually knocked it down with both hands onto the back of his thigh, and from there it bounced down onto his calf. He clearly was trying to control it when he bought it down onto his thigh. The more I look at it, the more clear it is that the ref & TMO got it right (at least by the letter of the law - the spirit is a different question)
I wasnt saying it was a crime! I was comparing it to a legal case where a guilty party gets off on a technicality.
Fair enough, maybe I was the one over egging or a bit
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@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
Congratulations to George North on his 100th Test for Wales. Below are the 42 Test tries he has scored for Wales:
Italy must hate the sight of him
@mikethesnow said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
Congratulations to George North on his 100th Test for Wales. Below are the 42 Test tries he has scored for Wales:
Italy must hate the sight of him
That comment is quite funny when you watch the video, as he goes for nearly 20 tries without scoring a try against Italy.
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@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:
@cgrant said in NH International Rugby:
To Bones :
The ball went clearly forward, IMO. But it fell on Zammit's leg, so could it be considered like a kick ?I'd say no because a kick has to be intentional.
Is there anything about intent in the laws? I don't think there is, so it makes no difference.
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:
@cgrant said in NH International Rugby:
To Bones :
The ball went clearly forward, IMO. But it fell on Zammit's leg, so could it be considered like a kick ?I'd say no because a kick has to be intentional.
Is there anything about intent in the laws? I don't think there is, so it makes no difference.
It's in the definition of what constitutes a kick.
Kick: An act made by intentionally hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot, except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee. A kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand, or along the ground.
https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/definitions#laws_let11 -
@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:
@cgrant said in NH International Rugby:
To Bones :
The ball went clearly forward, IMO. But it fell on Zammit's leg, so could it be considered like a kick ?I'd say no because a kick has to be intentional.
Is there anything about intent in the laws? I don't think there is, so it makes no difference.
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:
@cgrant said in NH International Rugby:
To Bones :
The ball went clearly forward, IMO. But it fell on Zammit's leg, so could it be considered like a kick ?I'd say no because a kick has to be intentional.
Is there anything about intent in the laws? I don't think there is, so it makes no difference.
From the Laws website (below).
The ruling I have generally seen refs adopt is that if you drop it, you lose possession- and that's the knock-on. Kicking it doesn't change the 'loss of possession' action.
It's one of those nasty little bits that generally gets reffed one way, but the laws probably don't fully explain it
Knock-on: When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
