NH International Rugby
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@mn5 said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
Amazing 6N.
Two more points scored and Scots Champions.
Four more points, and Dulin kick to touch, and France GS.
Three more points and Wales GS.
Three more points and Ireland second.
Best I recall.
.....and England surprisingly poor and Italy unsurprisingly utterly shithouse.
Really? England have flattered to deceive since RWC semi final IMO. Lucky to win last years 6N and the Autumn Tin Cup. We’ve been a bit clueless for well over a year.
England is a different team with the Vunipolas and Tuilagi at their best, and Saracens spine playing together regularly.
Probably covered up lack of heft at lock and other failings.
Boks had the locks/pack to nullify Vunipolas, exposed Itoje in scrum and De Allende controlled Tuilagi.
Since then the Pacifika trio havent really been firing at the same time, and of late the Saracens glue has come unstuck.
Time for a reboot.
@pakman Billy V in particular has been pretty tame for some time now. Not carrying into contact with any real dynamism and let’s face it that is his game in a nutshell. However I agree with your first assertion up to a point. Tuilagi certainly makes a big difference but he’s injured more often than he’s fit. Mako adds a lot but only if he has the energy, so he needs some solid support in doing his day job.
The Sarries issue has certainly played its part this 6N but do/should not have made an impact last 6N and in the Autumn.
A reboot has to be on the cards but the problem is that Eddie has not been bringing anyone through. No back up at 8, 9, 10 & 15 kind of makes it difficult without a total clear out.
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@pakman Billy V in particular has been pretty tame for some time now. Not carrying into contact with any real dynamism and let’s face it that is his game in a nutshell. However I agree with your first assertion up to a point. Tuilagi certainly makes a big difference but he’s injured more often than he’s fit. Mako adds a lot but only if he has the energy, so he needs some solid support in doing his day job.
The Sarries issue has certainly played its part this 6N but do/should not have made an impact last 6N and in the Autumn.
A reboot has to be on the cards but the problem is that Eddie has not been bringing anyone through. No back up at 8, 9, 10 & 15 kind of makes it difficult without a total clear out.
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@catogrande My guess how it will play out is Eddie will get told he can continue as Head Coach but with a Director of Selection (someone like Rob Andrew or Will Carling) to work alongside him or take the money and run.
@sparky If those are the conditions, he'll take the money and run as fast as his little legs will take him - and I wouldn't blame him at all.
Rob Andrew <shudder>
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@pakman Billy V in particular has been pretty tame for some time now. Not carrying into contact with any real dynamism and let’s face it that is his game in a nutshell. However I agree with your first assertion up to a point. Tuilagi certainly makes a big difference but he’s injured more often than he’s fit. Mako adds a lot but only if he has the energy, so he needs some solid support in doing his day job.
The Sarries issue has certainly played its part this 6N but do/should not have made an impact last 6N and in the Autumn.
A reboot has to be on the cards but the problem is that Eddie has not been bringing anyone through. No back up at 8, 9, 10 & 15 kind of makes it difficult without a total clear out.
@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman Billy V in particular has been pretty tame for some time now. Not carrying into contact with any real dynamism and let’s face it that is his game in a nutshell. However I agree with your first assertion up to a point. Tuilagi certainly makes a big difference but he’s injured more often than he’s fit. Mako adds a lot but only if he has the energy, so he needs some solid support in doing his day job.
The Sarries issue has certainly played its part this 6N but do/should not have made an impact last 6N and in the Autumn.
A reboot has to be on the cards but the problem is that Eddie has not been bringing anyone through. No back up at 8, 9, 10 & 15 kind of makes it difficult without a total clear out.
If you're looking for go foward in tighties it's hard to replace Mako, as he has such good hands. Obano needs some game time to see how far he can go. I'd have liked to have seen Attwood there, but too old now.
Simmonds and Dombrandt are probably form 8s in Premiership, and Kaino big fan of former.
Lawrence another one who's in the ring, smaller than Manu, but with better passing skills. That said, Eddie doesn't seeem to want to let him have a decent run at 12.
Official word seems to be that end of season tour will be where up and comers are let loose. Let's see...
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman Billy V in particular has been pretty tame for some time now. Not carrying into contact with any real dynamism and let’s face it that is his game in a nutshell. However I agree with your first assertion up to a point. Tuilagi certainly makes a big difference but he’s injured more often than he’s fit. Mako adds a lot but only if he has the energy, so he needs some solid support in doing his day job.
The Sarries issue has certainly played its part this 6N but do/should not have made an impact last 6N and in the Autumn.
A reboot has to be on the cards but the problem is that Eddie has not been bringing anyone through. No back up at 8, 9, 10 & 15 kind of makes it difficult without a total clear out.
If you're looking for go foward in tighties it's hard to replace Mako, as he has such good hands. Obano needs some game time to see how far he can go. I'd have liked to have seen Attwood there, but too old now.
Simmonds and Dombrandt are probably form 8s in Premiership, and Kaino big fan of former.
Lawrence another one who's in the ring, smaller than Manu, but with better passing skills. That said, Eddie doesn't seeem to want to let him have a decent run at 12.
Official word seems to be that end of season tour will be where up and comers are let loose. Let's see...
@pakman Agree Mako difficult to replace so it really needs the selection around him to support his slight scrummaging weakness. LCD at hooker would help and as mentioned before, a bit more beef in the second row. Billy needs to go away and get his mojo back and a little fitness wouldn’t go amiss either. No point in using Curry at 8 as he is no Billy and to put it bluntly, we really need him on the flank. Eddie prefers a big munter at 8 so I’d go Dombrant rather than Simmonds as I feel the latter would need the rest of the back row changing to compliment him. You will notice that at Exeter he is surrounded by blunt instruments in the back row.
Midfield in the absence of Manu is a sticking point. Eddie has not really given anyone a shot at 12 and has painted himself into a corner with Ford and Farrell. Great when that combo works but that is rarely seen now. We have, on paper, a potent back 3 but we can’t seem to get them into the game.
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Good news, if true. Razor for ABs not England coach please
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Good news, if true. Razor for ABs not England coach please
@machpants England is a big place, surely they have coaches?
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@machpants England is a big place, surely they have coaches?
@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:
@machpants England is a big place, surely they have coaches?
Their best coaches don't want to take the role, Baxter (exeter) has already said nooooooo thanks a few times. Poisoned chalice
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@machpants England is a big place, surely they have coaches?
@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:
@machpants England is a big place, surely they have coaches?
Coaching the team is about 5% of the actual role. Managing the media & RFU are really the two biggest parts of it.
Eddie came in and didn't give a shit. Basically gave both the middle finger right at the start. It should be the benchmark going forwards.
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@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:
@machpants England is a big place, surely they have coaches?
Their best coaches don't want to take the role, Baxter (exeter) has already said nooooooo thanks a few times. Poisoned chalice
@machpants said in NH International Rugby:
@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:
@machpants England is a big place, surely they have coaches?
Their best coaches don't want to take the role, Baxter (exeter) has already said nooooooo thanks a few times. Poisoned chalice
Partially this poisoned chalice view methinks but Baxter in particular has other, more sound reasons. He is first and foremost an Exeter man. He's been part of the club since he was a kid. His dad was a former captain and chairman of selectors, committee man etc. Both he and his brother are former captains. Exeter runs deep in this man. He could quite easily have played at a higher level but chose to stay with his club.
He is still in contract, which means a lot to him and he is coach of the double champions with a good chance of more silverware to come.
He is also a very shrewd man and probably realises that the strengths and qualities that he has brought to Exeter are not necessarily transferrable to England.
Outside of Baxter I am not sure there are many English coaches putting their hands up?
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Good news, if true. Razor for ABs not England coach please
@machpants Wasn't Robertson looking to join the Lions' coaching team? Perhaps he would go with Gatland to do most of the actual coaching.
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@machpants England is a big place, surely they have coaches?
@antipodean Exeter's Rob Baxter has said no. I can't see them going with Dean Richards, too much baggage. Steve Borthwick at Leicester was Eddie Jones' forwards coach until 2019 but his team have done poorly this year. Alex Sanderson has had an impressive first year in charge of Sale but the England job would be a big jump.
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@bones said in NH International Rugby:
Interesting to compare number of wins and losses, but the points total is junk data - most of the 6 Nations has been 2 points for a win, then they switched to the bonus point system about 5(?) Years ago, so now it's 4 or 5 points for a win. You can't just add the points up across both systems.
Some other stats for the same time period:
Grand Slam Champions
4 Wales
3 France
2 Ireland
2 EnglandChampions
7 England
6 Wales
5 France
4 IrelandWooden Spoon
16 Italy
4 Scotland
1 France
1 Wales -
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
Interesting to compare number of wins and losses, but the points total is junk data - most of the 6 Nations has been 2 points for a win, then they switched to the bonus point system about 5(?) Years ago, so now it's 4 or 5 points for a win. You can't just add the points up across both systems.
Some other stats for the same time period:
Grand Slam Champions
4 Wales
3 France
2 Ireland
2 EnglandChampions
7 England
6 Wales
5 France
4 IrelandWooden Spoon
16 Italy
4 Scotland
1 France
1 WalesAnother interesting and telling stat to add to that is the number of second places achieved by each team.
England 9
Ireland 6
France 5
Wales 1
Scotland 0
Italy 0I hadn't quite realised what a rollercoaster ride it is to be a Wales fan. Feast or famine hardly comes in to it.
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Another interesting and telling stat to add to that is the number of second places achieved by each team.
England 9
Ireland 6
France 5
Wales 1
Scotland 0
Italy 0I hadn't quite realised what a rollercoaster ride it is to be a Wales fan. Feast or famine hardly comes in to it.
@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
Another interesting and telling stat to add to that is the number of second places achieved by each team.
England 9
Ireland 6
France 5
Wales 1
Scotland 0
Italy 0I hadn't quite realised what a rollercoaster ride it is to be a Wales fan. Feast or famine hardly comes in to it.
Hard yards
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Dear God, please not Gatland
Not sure what to make of your post.
Are you rating Gats and therefore don't want England to be good? Or thinking he'll be a fuck up as you're actually a closet England fan?
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Dear God, please not Gatland
Not sure what to make of your post.
Are you rating Gats and therefore don't want England to be good? Or thinking he'll be a fuck up as you're actually a closet England fan?
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Dear God, please not Gatland
Not sure what to make of your post.
Are you rating Gats and therefore don't want England to be good? Or thinking he'll be a fuck up as you're actually a closet England fan?
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Dear God, please not Gatland
Not sure what to make of your post.
Are you rating Gats and therefore don't want England to be good? Or thinking he'll be a fuck up as you're actually a closet England fan?
Gats is smart enough to stop England consistently underachieving and turn them into a very good team.
But my biggest concern is that, as a Welshman, I have fond memories of the Gatland years, and I'd hate for that to be tarnished. I know WG is a Kiwi and a professional coach, but it still just feels wrong. He's an honorary Welshman, there aren't many things you could do to be stripped of that title, but this is one.
