NH International Rugby
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@Machpants said in NH International Rugby:
@akan004 said in NH International Rugby:
If the NZR are serious about winning the next RWC, I suggest they empty their bank account and hire Mitchell. Watching the English defend compared to how we defend is pretty depressing, we look like a bunch of amateurs under McLeod.
It really needs a sea change. It's obvious the type of defence pretty much everyone else is doing works, our passive and scramble worked too, BUT doesn't pressure the opposition team enough to give us either dominance or turn over balls (which our attack is based around)
Agree. I feel that our defence is too concerned with being in a pattern to counter attack. That did work for us and play to a strength in interactive instructed attacking that other teams couldn't handle, but those days are gone against the stronger teams. They have learned to keep hold of the ball and be conservative. Keep bashing us and making small gains until we make an error or get shuffled too much.
We won't change though while teams aren't putting big scores up because we still think that we can outscore them. When they shut us down with their defence as well, then we get in trouble.@Crucial said in NH International Rugby:
I feel that our defence is too concerned with being in a pattern to counter attack. That did work for us and play to a strength in interactive instructed attacking that other teams couldn't handle, but those days are gone against the stronger teams.
I think exactly that. That's why we don't rush, keep our line and a bit of depth but we aren't getting as many turnovers and as a consequence aren't scoring as many points.
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@Machpants said in NH International Rugby:
@akan004 said in NH International Rugby:
If the NZR are serious about winning the next RWC, I suggest they empty their bank account and hire Mitchell. Watching the English defend compared to how we defend is pretty depressing, we look like a bunch of amateurs under McLeod.
It really needs a sea change. It's obvious the type of defence pretty much everyone else is doing works, our passive and scramble worked too, BUT doesn't pressure the opposition team enough to give us either dominance or turn over balls (which our attack is based around)
Agree. I feel that our defence is too concerned with being in a pattern to counter attack. That did work for us and play to a strength in interactive instructed attacking that other teams couldn't handle, but those days are gone against the stronger teams. They have learned to keep hold of the ball and be conservative. Keep bashing us and making small gains until we make an error or get shuffled too much.
We won't change though while teams aren't putting big scores up because we still think that we can outscore them. When they shut us down with their defence as well, then we get in trouble.@Crucial said in NH International Rugby:
@Machpants said in NH International Rugby:
@akan004 said in NH International Rugby:
If the NZR are serious about winning the next RWC, I suggest they empty their bank account and hire Mitchell. Watching the English defend compared to how we defend is pretty depressing, we look like a bunch of amateurs under McLeod.
It really needs a sea change. It's obvious the type of defence pretty much everyone else is doing works, our passive and scramble worked too, BUT doesn't pressure the opposition team enough to give us either dominance or turn over balls (which our attack is based around)
Agree. I feel that our defence is too concerned with being in a pattern to counter attack. That did work for us and play to a strength in interactive instructed attacking that other teams couldn't handle, but those days are gone against the stronger teams. They have learned to keep hold of the ball and be conservative. Keep bashing us and making small gains until we make an error or get shuffled too much.
We won't change though while teams aren't putting big scores up because we still think that we can outscore them. When they shut us down with their defence as well, then we get in trouble.Good posts, both of them. We can no longer rely on teams tiring themselves out and making basic errors through fatigue - their fitness, skills and structures are too good now to just wait for the inevitable mistake. Whether in attack or defence, we need to be far more proactive in putting the opposition under pressure and forcing the mistake.
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@Machpants said in NH International Rugby:
@akan004 said in NH International Rugby:
If the NZR are serious about winning the next RWC, I suggest they empty their bank account and hire Mitchell. Watching the English defend compared to how we defend is pretty depressing, we look like a bunch of amateurs under McLeod.
It really needs a sea change. It's obvious the type of defence pretty much everyone else is doing works, our passive and scramble worked too, BUT doesn't pressure the opposition team enough to give us either dominance or turn over balls (which our attack is based around)
Agree. I feel that our defence is too concerned with being in a pattern to counter attack. That did work for us and play to a strength in interactive instructed attacking that other teams couldn't handle, but those days are gone against the stronger teams. They have learned to keep hold of the ball and be conservative. Keep bashing us and making small gains until we make an error or get shuffled too much.
We won't change though while teams aren't putting big scores up because we still think that we can outscore them. When they shut us down with their defence as well, then we get in trouble.@Crucial said in NH International Rugby:
@Machpants said in NH International Rugby:
@akan004 said in NH International Rugby:
If the NZR are serious about winning the next RWC, I suggest they empty their bank account and hire Mitchell. Watching the English defend compared to how we defend is pretty depressing, we look like a bunch of amateurs under McLeod.
It really needs a sea change. It's obvious the type of defence pretty much everyone else is doing works, our passive and scramble worked too, BUT doesn't pressure the opposition team enough to give us either dominance or turn over balls (which our attack is based around)
Agree. I feel that our defence is too concerned with being in a pattern to counter attack. That did work for us and play to a strength in interactive instructed attacking that other teams couldn't handle, but those days are gone against the stronger teams. They have learned to keep hold of the ball and be conservative. Keep bashing us and making small gains until we make an error or get shuffled too much.
We won't change though while teams aren't putting big scores up because we still think that we can outscore them. When they shut us down with their defence as well, then we get in trouble.Great points. But you know what you have done, don't you?
As it's going to take some time to adapt and change the AB style of play, you've just given Foster a get-out-of-jail card....
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I watched the England vs Ireland match with interest as well. I get the feeling England would have literally physically blasted the ABs off the park if they had played last night. The gulf in class was obvious.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in NH International Rugby:
I watched the England vs Ireland match with interest as well. I get the feeling England would have literally physically blasted the ABs off the park if they had played last night. The gulf in class was obvious.
Class, or size?
Size of players these days is nuts.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in NH International Rugby:
I watched the England vs Ireland match with interest as well. I get the feeling England would have literally physically blasted the ABs off the park if they had played last night. The gulf in class was obvious.
Class, or size?
Size of players these days is nuts.
@MajorRage said in NH International Rugby:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in NH International Rugby:
I watched the England vs Ireland match with interest as well. I get the feeling England would have literally physically blasted the ABs off the park if they had played last night. The gulf in class was obvious.
Class, or size?
Size of players these days is nuts.
:::
Spoiler Text
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Waitrose level spoiler that.
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If the NZR are serious about winning the next RWC, I suggest they empty their bank account and hire Mitchell. Watching the English defend compared to how we defend is pretty depressing, we look like a bunch of amateurs under McLeod.
@akan004 said in NH International Rugby:
If the NZR are serious about winning the next RWC, I suggest they empty their bank account and hire Mitchell. Watching the English defend compared to how we defend is pretty depressing, we look like a bunch of amateurs under McLeod.
I had suggested this in the "When Foster should go" thread.
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Scotland v France down to the wire then Hogg fucks up kick to the corner.
Gutting.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in NH International Rugby:
I watched the England vs Ireland match with interest as well. I get the feeling England would have literally physically blasted the ABs off the park if they had played last night. The gulf in class was obvious.
Class, or size?
Size of players these days is nuts.
@MajorRage
Probably a bit of both.
I think our long standing (and successful)conditioning approach is a little outdated.
We actually have the size in our tight 5 and pack but we seem leaner than most sides. I think we need to improve our power in our pack.
Just as we conditioned players to lose some bulk to counter the humidity in Japan, only to lose badly against England when humidity wasn’t a factor!
Fatigue and running teams off their feet aren’t really a factor in rugby these days unfortunately.
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@akan004 said in NH International Rugby:
If the NZR are serious about winning the next RWC, I suggest they empty their bank account and hire Mitchell. Watching the English defend compared to how we defend is pretty depressing, we look like a bunch of amateurs under McLeod.
I had suggested this in the "When Foster should go" thread.
I doubt either party would want to!
We need to change defence strategy (and probably Defence coach).
Another thing we are being left behind in
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@akan004 said in NH International Rugby:
If the NZR are serious about winning the next RWC, I suggest they empty their bank account and hire Mitchell. Watching the English defend compared to how we defend is pretty depressing, we look like a bunch of amateurs under McLeod.
It really needs a sea change. It's obvious the type of defence pretty much everyone else is doing works, our passive and scramble worked too, BUT doesn't pressure the opposition team enough to give us either dominance or turn over balls (which our attack is based around)
@Machpants said in NH International Rugby:
@akan004 said in NH International Rugby:
If the NZR are serious about winning the next RWC, I suggest they empty their bank account and hire Mitchell. Watching the English defend compared to how we defend is pretty depressing, we look like a bunch of amateurs under McLeod.
It really needs a sea change. It's obvious the type of defence pretty much everyone else is doing works, our passive and scramble worked too, BUT doesn't pressure the opposition team enough to give us either dominance or turn over balls (which our attack is based around)
Any change needs to start at the levels below the ABs. Even in SR we see different defensive strategies used across the 5 teams. The Hurricanes probably are most aggressive using a rush defence.
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@MajorRage
Probably a bit of both.
I think our long standing (and successful)conditioning approach is a little outdated.
We actually have the size in our tight 5 and pack but we seem leaner than most sides. I think we need to improve our power in our pack.
Just as we conditioned players to lose some bulk to counter the humidity in Japan, only to lose badly against England when humidity wasn’t a factor!
Fatigue and running teams off their feet aren’t really a factor in rugby these days unfortunately.
@DaGrubster said in NH International Rugby:
@MajorRage
Probably a bit of both.
I think our long standing (and successful)conditioning approach is a little outdated.
We actually have the size in our tight 5 and pack but we seem leaner than most sides. I think we need to improve our power in our pack.
Just as we conditioned players to lose some bulk to counter the humidity in Japan, only to lose badly against England when humidity wasn’t a factor!
Fatigue and running teams off their feet aren’t really a factor in rugby these days unfortunately.
I've said it before, but NZ rugby seems to hit these cycles where our penchant for "athletes" means we start to run out of big grunty forwards. We reset. And the cycle starts anew.
Or, you know, we could play 2 opensides and a blindside who does okay.
It's the 2nd row where we are a bit fucked. But that is nothing new.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in NH International Rugby:
I watched the England vs Ireland match with interest as well. I get the feeling England would have literally physically blasted the ABs off the park if they had played last night. The gulf in class was obvious.
Class, or size?
Size of players these days is nuts.
@MajorRage Not sure about the size but I really don't think size is an issue when a pack is playing as a unit and with focus. AB packs have often been smaller than their opponents in the modern eras.
Maybe I am a grumpy old man but I have been frustrated with the AB tactics for a few years. A lack of pragmatism and tactical nous has been evident but because of the natural talent of the AB players, they have got out of jail more times than not. It is almost an arrogant attitude towards test rugby. Set-piece dominance, tactical kicking (especially for territory), exiting the red zone, aggressive defense, etc, the basics of test rugby, seems to have been neglected in the ABs since 2016/7.
I saw the opposite with the England team on Saturday night. Their basics esp. tactical kicking was good and the Irish team had no answer to that. I suggest that the current English team is well ahead of the current AB team. Luckily it is 2020 not 2023. -
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in NH International Rugby:
Maybe I am a grumpy old man but I have been frustrated with the AB tactics for a few years. A lack of pragmatism and tactical nous has been evident but because of the natural talent of the AB players, they have got out of jail more times than not
I think you're pretty much spot-on.
The NH teams seem to be ahead of us on doing the set-piece basics well while we are still ahead in ball skills. To Foster's credit, the drive from a lineout near the opposition's line has become far more effective this year.
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Time to circle the wagons
Real blend of youth and experience necessitated through injury and shit form (North).
England by 24-29
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England: Daly; Joseph, Slade, Farrell, May; Ford, Youngs; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.
Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Hill, Earl, Willis, Robson, Watson.
Something of a lop-sided bench with Eddie reportedly having Ben Earl training with the backs :astonished_face:
@MiketheSnow I wish I shared your pessimism but obviously that would be my optimism. I think you know what I mean. I don't think this will be a run away victory, though I do make us favourites.
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England: Daly; Joseph, Slade, Farrell, May; Ford, Youngs; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.
Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Hill, Earl, Willis, Robson, Watson.
Something of a lop-sided bench with Eddie reportedly having Ben Earl training with the backs :astonished_face:
@MiketheSnow I wish I shared your pessimism but obviously that would be my optimism. I think you know what I mean. I don't think this will be a run away victory, though I do make us favourites.
@Catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
England: Daly; Joseph, Slade, Farrell, May; Ford, Youngs; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.
Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Hill, Earl, Willis, Robson, Watson.
Something of a lop-sided bench with Eddie reportedly having Ben Earl training with the backs :astonished_face:
@MiketheSnow I wish I shared your pessimism but obviously that would be my optimism. I think you know what I mean. I don't think this will be a run away victory, though I do make us favourites.
The only way this is going to be close is if you have multiple yellows and / or a red. -
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
Congratulations to Nigel Owens on being the first Referee to reach 100 tests.
And arguably the best of the lot.
