2018 New Zealand Schools
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I'm absolutely gobsmacked that only three players of Napier Boys made it into the wider training group. Particularly centre Leo Thompson missing out is ridiculous. And only two from St Peter's. But more players from schools that didn't even make the Top 4 (St Kent's, Christ's College, Scots College). How do they select these players?
I understand that these squads are selected from the 5 Super U18 teams as much as from watching 1st XV rugby. The caveat is that those teams can be selected based on who the coaches are.
From a Ham BHS perspective, the only 2 players I thought had a chance have been selected. Josh Lord could have a big future as 2 m schoolboy locks aren't that common.
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I'm absolutely gobsmacked that only three players of Napier Boys made it into the wider training group. Particularly centre Leo Thompson missing out is ridiculous. And only two from St Peter's. But more players from schools that didn't even make the Top 4 (St Kent's, Christ's College, Scots College). How do they select these players?
@stargazer if it’s anything like under 20s then the unions nominate players to look at.
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I'm absolutely gobsmacked that only three players of Napier Boys made it into the wider training group. Particularly centre Leo Thompson missing out is ridiculous. And only two from St Peter's. But more players from schools that didn't even make the Top 4 (St Kent's, Christ's College, Scots College). How do they select these players?
@stargazer punivai was Christ’s college too. Except for a wee ‘ incident ‘ he would’ve still be there.
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@stargazer if it’s anything like under 20s then the unions nominate players to look at.
@chchfanatic Doesn't say much for Thorne's coaching if CC have more players in the squad than CBHS.
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Could the spread of players be a reflection of the more even competition this year? In the past two years there’s been two outstanding teams (Hastings and MAGS and Hastings and Ham) who have supplied many players. This year it’s been much more competitive and the top 4 teams aren’t dominating selection.
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I think you would also need to look at U18 teams to see the spread across schools within each region. One would assume that St Kents dominated the Blues team although Reihana was in the Chiefs and Punivai the Crusaders teams. There may be others in the same situation.
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https://hstop200.com/crusaders-u18-squad-for-2018/
Here's an article on the Crusader's U18 squad that talks about some of the players who made this team.
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I'm very glad that non-selection in NZ Schools does not completely remove the chance to be selected for NZ U20 in the next few years. The good players of those that aren't, but possibly should have been, selected for NZ Schools can still get an invite to the NZU20 camps, if they either have another good year at school (depending on age) and make NZ Schools next year, or if they have a good club rugby season next year and make it into provincial U19s, Mitre 10 Cup or SR U20s squads.
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I'm absolutely gobsmacked that only three players of Napier Boys made it into the wider training group. Particularly centre Leo Thompson missing out is ridiculous. And only two from St Peter's. But more players from schools that didn't even make the Top 4 (St Kent's, Christ's College, Scots College). How do they select these players?
@stargazer It's only 1 from St Peter's, Simon Parker must be from St Peter's Cambridge? Surely being national champions we deserve more than 1 player?
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@stargazer It's only 1 from St Peter's, Simon Parker must be from St Peter's Cambridge? Surely being national champions we deserve more than 1 player?
@african-monkey said in 2018 New Zealand Schools:
@stargazer It's only 1 from St Peter's, Simon Parker must be from St Peter's Cambridge? Surely being national champions we deserve more than 1 player?
The one shouldn't lead to the other. The team won, but individuals in it don't "deserve" anything because their team is good.
The Chiefs won the Super title and didn't then get a haul of All Blacks that year as a result. There wasn't a rush of Hurricanes when they won either. No-one even suggested it really. Rugby is a team game, and just because the team is outstanding doesn't mean lots of the players are.
I'm actually really encouraged by how the union does this. It suggests they aren't just swayed by who is in the best team, but actually see good players in lesser teams.
If they are canny, they will discount big boys who dominate through sheer size, and pick more skilled boys who will grow. (There's a few on the Fern who are quite vocal about Auckland schools, in particular, who try to dominate through size alone, to the detriment of skill.)
Also there are age limits. Many players in top teams are not eligible, especially the Year 14s but also many Year 13s.
(A friend alleges that barely any of the Rotorua side that won a few years back were even eligible for selection. He'd seen their team sheet.)
Some will be ineligible as they are not NZers. Presumably only two per team, but often two of the better players (which is why they were chosen in the first place).
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@african-monkey said in 2018 New Zealand Schools:
@stargazer It's only 1 from St Peter's, Simon Parker must be from St Peter's Cambridge? Surely being national champions we deserve more than 1 player?
The one shouldn't lead to the other. The team won, but individuals in it don't "deserve" anything because their team is good.
The Chiefs won the Super title and didn't then get a haul of All Blacks that year as a result. There wasn't a rush of Hurricanes when they won either. No-one even suggested it really. Rugby is a team game, and just because the team is outstanding doesn't mean lots of the players are.
I'm actually really encouraged by how the union does this. It suggests they aren't just swayed by who is in the best team, but actually see good players in lesser teams.
If they are canny, they will discount big boys who dominate through sheer size, and pick more skilled boys who will grow. (There's a few on the Fern who are quite vocal about Auckland schools, in particular, who try to dominate through size alone, to the detriment of skill.)
Also there are age limits. Many players in top teams are not eligible, especially the Year 14s but also many Year 13s.
(A friend alleges that barely any of the Rotorua side that won a few years back were even eligible for selection. He'd seen their team sheet.)
Some will be ineligible as they are not NZers. Presumably only two per team, but often two of the better players (which is why they were chosen in the first place).
@chester-draws also no players who have signed league contracts. Which is fair enough I guess.
I’d love to see a breakdown of how many nz schools players have gone on to abs compared to nz20s players. -
@chester-draws also no players who have signed league contracts. Which is fair enough I guess.
I’d love to see a breakdown of how many nz schools players have gone on to abs compared to nz20s players.@chchfanatic Good call. I wonder how many of those St Peter's players have been ruled ineligible that way?
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@chchfanatic Good call. I wonder how many of those St Peter's players have been ruled ineligible that way?
@chester-draws I'd be suprised if any have we've barely had anyone ever sign to rugby league sides over the years and I can't see that changing (I could probably count it on one hand).
I'm not saying the whole side should have been picked, I just feel that a couple of others deserved a look at as well but never mind.
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I am involved in coaching 1stXV and have coached some of these boys and against some. Looking at the list it's reasonably accurate, there are always going to be arguments either way. There are some schools who win because they have a more even spread of talent or team culture and those that have 3-4 very talented individuals. In the end the cream rises to the top ABs etc. example the 2015 WC starting team 8 did not play NZ schools. Not an exact science. Rules like league contracts etc play a huge part as has been mentioned
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@chester-draws also no players who have signed league contracts. Which is fair enough I guess.
I’d love to see a breakdown of how many nz schools players have gone on to abs compared to nz20s players.@chchfanatic 20s if far more accurate as a number do not make 20s from school. example from this years rugby championship if played schools, 20s both or none. only 12 have played both schools and 20s I think
Hookers
Dane Coles 21s only
Nathan Harris 20s only
Codie Taylor bothProps
Owen Franks both
Joe Moody none
Tim Perry none
Karl Tu'inukuafe none
Ofa Tuungafasi bothLocks
Scott Barrett 20s only
Brodie Retallick 20s only
Samuel Whitelock bothLoose Forwards
Sam Cane both
Shannon Frizell neither
Jackson Hemopo 20s
Kieran Read both
Ardie Savea both
Liam Squire neither
Luke Whitelock bothBacks:
Halfbacks
TJ Perenara both
Aaron Smith 20s only
Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi 20s onlyFirst five-eighths
Beauden Barrett 20s only
Damian McKenzie both
Richie Mo'unga 20s onlyMidfielders
Ryan Crotty both
Jack Goodhue 20s only
Anton Lienert-Brown 20s only (but wld have rep schools if not inj prob.)
Sonny Bill Williams noneOutside backs
Jordie Barrett 20s only
Rieko Ioane both (never played 20s though)
Nehe Milner-Skudder none
Waisake Naholo 20s only
Ben Smith nonealso from 2014-2016 nz schools squads 38/72 have gone onto NZ 20s WC squad, a number of others have been involved in lead up but not made final squad or been inj.
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Not many from outside the 'big name colleges', but one from my old school Wai Col which is nice to see!
@machpants said in 2018 New Zealand Schools:
Not many from outside the 'big name colleges', but one from my old school Wai Col which is nice to see!
Aotea College would be in the same category from the Wellington region.
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Stewart Cruden - Palmerston North Boys' High School
From Palmy, same name ... what relation?
