2018 November Internationals
-
On loosies, IMHO Ireland is likely to have the best balanced trio in NH this autumn. Scotland and Wales also value a classic 7, whereas England has until very recently been stuck in the mindset, like the Boks, that 7 (Boks 6) has to be 110 kg.
@pakman said in 2018 November Internationals:
On loosies, IMHO Ireland is likely to have the best balanced trio in NH this autumn. Scotland and Wales also value a classic 7, whereas England has until very recently been stuck in the mindset, like the Boks, that 7 (Boks 6) has to be 110 kg.
It's not a mindset. They just don't seem to breed any decent 7s that don't break
-
-
@stargazer said in 2018 November Internationals:
Unlikely that Ferners would receive EirSport surely??
-
@stargazer said in 2018 November Internationals:
Unlikely that Ferners would receive EirSport surely??
@derm-mccrum We've Ferners from or living in Ireland.
-
England team naming for the Bokscoming up. Chris Foy of the Daily Fail thinks Tuilagi will be on the bench and the back row will be Shields, Curry and Mercer:
https://twitter.com/FoyChris/status/1057925020398301185?s=20
@sparky said in 2018 November Internationals:
England team naming for the Bokscoming up. Chris Foy of the Daily Fail thinks Tuilagi will be on the bench and the back row will be Shields, Curry and Mercer:
https://twitter.com/FoyChris/status/1057925020398301185?s=20
Trying for some late bench impact?
-
@sparky said in 2018 November Internationals:
20 year-old Tom Curry's the only player there remotely like an Openside Flanker.
Yep, all the others are basically 6s. Yeah Mercer has played a lot of 8 but not so much at senior level and he's not been tearing the place up. Wilson has been solid and has a bit of dog about him. Shields has done sweet FA in the UK and hardly shone in SA during the summer. We've left our best available 8 (Morgan) and 7 (Underhill) out altogether. Curry aside we've gone for biggish, slowish munters. Oh and we've been mullered at the breakdown for a season and a half.
Fuck. Just, fuck.
@catogrande said in 2018 November Internationals:
@sparky said in 2018 November Internationals:
20 year-old Tom Curry's the only player there remotely like an Openside Flanker.
Yep, all the others are basically 6s. Yeah Mercer has played a lot of 8 but not so much at senior level and he's not been tearing the place up. Wilson has been solid and has a bit of dog about him. Shields has done sweet FA in the UK and hardly shone in SA during the summer. We've left our best available 8 (Morgan) and 7 (Underhill) out altogether. Curry aside we've gone for biggish, slowish munters. Oh and we've been mullered at the breakdown for a season and a half.
Fuck. Just, fuck.
Mercer's nothing like a big slow munter (assuming he starts). Certainly questions over whether he'll be able to shine against the quality of opposition here and I'd worry about his carrying in traffic. That said he'll be the most mobile 8 England have fielded in a while and probably the skinniest.
I'd have picked Morgan any day though. Happy with Curry over Underhill, who's too much of a one trick pony imo
-
@catogrande said in 2018 November Internationals:
@sparky said in 2018 November Internationals:
20 year-old Tom Curry's the only player there remotely like an Openside Flanker.
Yep, all the others are basically 6s. Yeah Mercer has played a lot of 8 but not so much at senior level and he's not been tearing the place up. Wilson has been solid and has a bit of dog about him. Shields has done sweet FA in the UK and hardly shone in SA during the summer. We've left our best available 8 (Morgan) and 7 (Underhill) out altogether. Curry aside we've gone for biggish, slowish munters. Oh and we've been mullered at the breakdown for a season and a half.
Fuck. Just, fuck.
Mercer's nothing like a big slow munter (assuming he starts). Certainly questions over whether he'll be able to shine against the quality of opposition here and I'd worry about his carrying in traffic. That said he'll be the most mobile 8 England have fielded in a while and probably the skinniest.
I'd have picked Morgan any day though. Happy with Curry over Underhill, who's too much of a one trick pony imo
@margin_walker said in 2018 November Internationals:
@catogrande said in 2018 November Internationals:
@sparky said in 2018 November Internationals:
20 year-old Tom Curry's the only player there remotely like an Openside Flanker.
Yep, all the others are basically 6s. Yeah Mercer has played a lot of 8 but not so much at senior level and he's not been tearing the place up. Wilson has been solid and has a bit of dog about him. Shields has done sweet FA in the UK and hardly shone in SA during the summer. We've left our best available 8 (Morgan) and 7 (Underhill) out altogether. Curry aside we've gone for biggish, slowish munters. Oh and we've been mullered at the breakdown for a season and a half.
Fuck. Just, fuck.
Mercer's nothing like a big slow munter (assuming he starts). Certainly questions over whether he'll be able to shine against the quality of opposition here and I'd worry about his carrying in traffic. That said he'll be the most mobile 8 England have fielded in a while and probably the skinniest.
I'd have picked Morgan any day though. Happy with Curry over Underhill, who's too much of a one trick pony imo
Fair point, though I did say big-ish and slow-ish. He's not slow by current standards but he's no tearaway either. I certainly don't see him as any part of the answer to our problems. Curry I'm fine with and TBH I'd be OK with Underhill too. I get what you mean by one trick pony but I'd counter that by saying he is pretty good at his one trick and it's a trick that we don't have elsewhere in the back row. Like you I'd have Morgan at 8 and then we have a number of options at 6 (but then again when haven't we?). Curry, Morgan and A N Other has a better look about it to me.
Edit: And I'd counter your point about his being the most mobile 8 England have had for a while with the name Simmonds.
-
@margin_walker said in 2018 November Internationals:
@catogrande said in 2018 November Internationals:
@sparky said in 2018 November Internationals:
20 year-old Tom Curry's the only player there remotely like an Openside Flanker.
Yep, all the others are basically 6s. Yeah Mercer has played a lot of 8 but not so much at senior level and he's not been tearing the place up. Wilson has been solid and has a bit of dog about him. Shields has done sweet FA in the UK and hardly shone in SA during the summer. We've left our best available 8 (Morgan) and 7 (Underhill) out altogether. Curry aside we've gone for biggish, slowish munters. Oh and we've been mullered at the breakdown for a season and a half.
Fuck. Just, fuck.
Mercer's nothing like a big slow munter (assuming he starts). Certainly questions over whether he'll be able to shine against the quality of opposition here and I'd worry about his carrying in traffic. That said he'll be the most mobile 8 England have fielded in a while and probably the skinniest.
I'd have picked Morgan any day though. Happy with Curry over Underhill, who's too much of a one trick pony imo
Fair point, though I did say big-ish and slow-ish. He's not slow by current standards but he's no tearaway either. I certainly don't see him as any part of the answer to our problems. Curry I'm fine with and TBH I'd be OK with Underhill too. I get what you mean by one trick pony but I'd counter that by saying he is pretty good at his one trick and it's a trick that we don't have elsewhere in the back row. Like you I'd have Morgan at 8 and then we have a number of options at 6 (but then again when haven't we?). Curry, Morgan and A N Other has a better look about it to me.
Edit: And I'd counter your point about his being the most mobile 8 England have had for a while with the name Simmonds.
@catogrande said in 2018 November Internationals:
@margin_walker said in 2018 November Internationals:
@catogrande said in 2018 November Internationals:
@sparky said in 2018 November Internationals:
20 year-old Tom Curry's the only player there remotely like an Openside Flanker.
Yep, all the others are basically 6s. Yeah Mercer has played a lot of 8 but not so much at senior level and he's not been tearing the place up. Wilson has been solid and has a bit of dog about him. Shields has done sweet FA in the UK and hardly shone in SA during the summer. We've left our best available 8 (Morgan) and 7 (Underhill) out altogether. Curry aside we've gone for biggish, slowish munters. Oh and we've been mullered at the breakdown for a season and a half.
Fuck. Just, fuck.
Mercer's nothing like a big slow munter (assuming he starts). Certainly questions over whether he'll be able to shine against the quality of opposition here and I'd worry about his carrying in traffic. That said he'll be the most mobile 8 England have fielded in a while and probably the skinniest.
I'd have picked Morgan any day though. Happy with Curry over Underhill, who's too much of a one trick pony imo
Fair point, though I did say big-ish and slow-ish. He's not slow by current standards but he's no tearaway either. I certainly don't see him as any part of the answer to our problems. Curry I'm fine with and TBH I'd be OK with Underhill too. I get what you mean by one trick pony but I'd counter that by saying he is pretty good at his one trick and it's a trick that we don't have elsewhere in the back row. Like you I'd have Morgan at 8 and then we have a number of options at 6 (but then again when haven't we?). Curry, Morgan and A N Other has a better look about it to me.
Edit: And I'd counter your point about his being the most mobile 8 England have had for a while with the name Simmonds.
England's biggest failure over the last 12 months has been getting bodies to the ruck quickly and effectively. Finding the balance between the desire to endlessly carry over the gain line and being fast enough to slow down opposition ball is the question.
Does this proposed lineup appear to be the answer? -
@margin_walker said in 2018 November Internationals:
@catogrande said in 2018 November Internationals:
@sparky said in 2018 November Internationals:
20 year-old Tom Curry's the only player there remotely like an Openside Flanker.
Yep, all the others are basically 6s. Yeah Mercer has played a lot of 8 but not so much at senior level and he's not been tearing the place up. Wilson has been solid and has a bit of dog about him. Shields has done sweet FA in the UK and hardly shone in SA during the summer. We've left our best available 8 (Morgan) and 7 (Underhill) out altogether. Curry aside we've gone for biggish, slowish munters. Oh and we've been mullered at the breakdown for a season and a half.
Fuck. Just, fuck.
Mercer's nothing like a big slow munter (assuming he starts). Certainly questions over whether he'll be able to shine against the quality of opposition here and I'd worry about his carrying in traffic. That said he'll be the most mobile 8 England have fielded in a while and probably the skinniest.
I'd have picked Morgan any day though. Happy with Curry over Underhill, who's too much of a one trick pony imo
Fair point, though I did say big-ish and slow-ish. He's not slow by current standards but he's no tearaway either. I certainly don't see him as any part of the answer to our problems. Curry I'm fine with and TBH I'd be OK with Underhill too. I get what you mean by one trick pony but I'd counter that by saying he is pretty good at his one trick and it's a trick that we don't have elsewhere in the back row. Like you I'd have Morgan at 8 and then we have a number of options at 6 (but then again when haven't we?). Curry, Morgan and A N Other has a better look about it to me.
Edit: And I'd counter your point about his being the most mobile 8 England have had for a while with the name Simmonds.
Yeah, Simmonds would probably be quicker (certainly over shorter distances) but Mercer's pretty quick and skilful. Not in the plodder category anyway. I just don't see him making too many inroads into that Bok defence
After all this it will probably be Wilson or Shields at 8 anyway knowing Eddie. Would prefer Wilson out of those two.
-
@catogrande said in 2018 November Internationals:
@margin_walker said in 2018 November Internationals:
@catogrande said in 2018 November Internationals:
@sparky said in 2018 November Internationals:
20 year-old Tom Curry's the only player there remotely like an Openside Flanker.
Yep, all the others are basically 6s. Yeah Mercer has played a lot of 8 but not so much at senior level and he's not been tearing the place up. Wilson has been solid and has a bit of dog about him. Shields has done sweet FA in the UK and hardly shone in SA during the summer. We've left our best available 8 (Morgan) and 7 (Underhill) out altogether. Curry aside we've gone for biggish, slowish munters. Oh and we've been mullered at the breakdown for a season and a half.
Fuck. Just, fuck.
Mercer's nothing like a big slow munter (assuming he starts). Certainly questions over whether he'll be able to shine against the quality of opposition here and I'd worry about his carrying in traffic. That said he'll be the most mobile 8 England have fielded in a while and probably the skinniest.
I'd have picked Morgan any day though. Happy with Curry over Underhill, who's too much of a one trick pony imo
Fair point, though I did say big-ish and slow-ish. He's not slow by current standards but he's no tearaway either. I certainly don't see him as any part of the answer to our problems. Curry I'm fine with and TBH I'd be OK with Underhill too. I get what you mean by one trick pony but I'd counter that by saying he is pretty good at his one trick and it's a trick that we don't have elsewhere in the back row. Like you I'd have Morgan at 8 and then we have a number of options at 6 (but then again when haven't we?). Curry, Morgan and A N Other has a better look about it to me.
Edit: And I'd counter your point about his being the most mobile 8 England have had for a while with the name Simmonds.
England's biggest failure over the last 12 months has been getting bodies to the ruck quickly and effectively. Finding the balance between the desire to endlessly carry over the gain line and being fast enough to slow down opposition ball is the question.
Does this proposed lineup appear to be the answer?@crucial said in 2018 November Internationals:
@catogrande said in 2018 November Internationals:
@margin_walker said in 2018 November Internationals:
@catogrande said in 2018 November Internationals:
@sparky said in 2018 November Internationals:
20 year-old Tom Curry's the only player there remotely like an Openside Flanker.
Yep, all the others are basically 6s. Yeah Mercer has played a lot of 8 but not so much at senior level and he's not been tearing the place up. Wilson has been solid and has a bit of dog about him. Shields has done sweet FA in the UK and hardly shone in SA during the summer. We've left our best available 8 (Morgan) and 7 (Underhill) out altogether. Curry aside we've gone for biggish, slowish munters. Oh and we've been mullered at the breakdown for a season and a half.
Fuck. Just, fuck.
Mercer's nothing like a big slow munter (assuming he starts). Certainly questions over whether he'll be able to shine against the quality of opposition here and I'd worry about his carrying in traffic. That said he'll be the most mobile 8 England have fielded in a while and probably the skinniest.
I'd have picked Morgan any day though. Happy with Curry over Underhill, who's too much of a one trick pony imo
Fair point, though I did say big-ish and slow-ish. He's not slow by current standards but he's no tearaway either. I certainly don't see him as any part of the answer to our problems. Curry I'm fine with and TBH I'd be OK with Underhill too. I get what you mean by one trick pony but I'd counter that by saying he is pretty good at his one trick and it's a trick that we don't have elsewhere in the back row. Like you I'd have Morgan at 8 and then we have a number of options at 6 (but then again when haven't we?). Curry, Morgan and A N Other has a better look about it to me.
Edit: And I'd counter your point about his being the most mobile 8 England have had for a while with the name Simmonds.
England's biggest failure over the last 12 months has been getting bodies to the ruck quickly and effectively. Finding the balance between the desire to endlessly carry over the gain line and being fast enough to slow down opposition ball is the question.
Does this proposed lineup appear to be the answer?I'd like to think it has a decent chance, but we won't know if we don't try it. I'm a bit pissed off that Eddie hasn't really experimented much in the back row, given our collective failures in that area but to an extent his hands have been tied by injuries (Curry, Underhill) and lack of form (Kvesic). It does seem that we are no nearer to solving a problem that was apparent under both Johnson and Lancaster.
-
Yeah, Simmonds would probably be quicker (certainly over shorter distances) but Mercer's pretty quick and skilful. Not in the plodder category anyway. I just don't see him making too many inroads into that Bok defence
After all this it will probably be Wilson or Shields at 8 anyway knowing Eddie. Would prefer Wilson out of those two.
@margin_walker said in 2018 November Internationals:
Yeah, Simmonds would probably be quicker (certainly over shorter distances) but Mercer's pretty quick and skilful. Not in the plodder category anyway. I just don't see him making two many inroads into that Bok defence
After all this it will probably be Wilson or Shields at 8 anyway knowing Eddie. Would prefer Wilson out of those two.
In a nutshell
-
Wilson it is
@margin_walker Given the squad that's not such a bad outcome, though who is going to make way for Tuilagi? Slade to 12? Ford to 10 and Farrell to 12? Keep Teo alongside Tuilagi? Not sure I like any of those options really.
-
@margin_walker Given the squad that's not such a bad outcome, though who is going to make way for Tuilagi? Slade to 12? Ford to 10 and Farrell to 12? Keep Teo alongside Tuilagi? Not sure I like any of those options really.
Am fine with Wilson starting given the situation. Rarely has a bad game for Newcastle and has some dog about him. Not a proper 8, but beggars cant be choosers. Tuilagi onto the wing obviously...
Lawes is a big loss Crucial. Has become quietly very important to this England pack. Just seen the back row has 10 caps between them (and a debutant on the bench) and the starting props have started a total of 4 international starts. Shields needs to show us why he's been fast tracked. Hasn't really shown anything over the summer or in his limited gametime for Wasps to justify him being there.
-
Am fine with Wilson starting given the situation. Rarely has a bad game for Newcastle and has some dog about him. Not a proper 8, but beggars cant be choosers. Tuilagi onto the wing obviously...
Lawes is a big loss Crucial. Has become quietly very important to this England pack. Just seen the back row has 10 caps between them (and a debutant on the bench) and the starting props have started a total of 4 international starts. Shields needs to show us why he's been fast tracked. Hasn't really shown anything over the summer or in his limited gametime for Wasps to justify him being there.
@margin_walker said in 2018 November Internationals:
Am fine with Wilson starting given the situation. Rarely has a bad game for Newcastle and has some dog about him. Not a proper 8, but beggars cant be choosers. Tuilagi onto the wing obviously...
Lawes is a big loss Crucial. Has become quietly very important to this England pack. Just seen the back row has 10 caps between them (and a debutant on the bench) and the starting props have started a total of 4 internationals. Shields needs to show us why he's been fast tracked. Hasn't really shown anything over the summer or in his limited gametime for Wasps to justify him being there.
I doubt anyone will disagree on Shields. No one ever shed a tear when he didn't get selected for the ABs so I don't know why anyone would think he'd become world class by shifting.
-
I'm astonished Shields has been fast tracked into the England setup. It's not like England are short of his type of player. Must be difficult for other players to fathom.
-
I'm astonished Shields has been fast tracked into the England setup. It's not like England are short of his type of player. Must be difficult for other players to fathom.
Good guy, a tough man, close mates with Beauden Barrett. Won the fitness tests at the Hurricanes each year, made the most tackles in games and was a reasonable captain. A man in John Mitchell's own image so that might explain his selection. Probably a better player than Elliott Dixon.
But weak hands and not being great at lineout or as a ball-carrier meant he was behind Liam Squire, Shannon Frizell and Vaea Fifita in the AB Blindside pecking order. He would probably be on the AB bench this weekend instead of Gareth Evans if he had stuck with the NZRU.
-
Good guy, a tough man, close mates with Beauden Barrett. Won the fitness tests at the Hurricanes each year, made the most tackles in games and was a reasonable captain. A man in John Mitchell's own image so that might explain his selection. Probably a better player than Elliott Dixon.
But weak hands and not being great at lineout or as a ball-carrier meant he was behind Liam Squire, Shannon Frizell and Vaea Fifita in the AB Blindside pecking order. He would probably be on the AB bench this weekend instead of Gareth Evans if he had stuck with the NZRU.
@sparky said in 2018 November Internationals:
Good guy, a tough man, close mates with Beauden Barrett. Won the fitness tests at the Hurricanes each year, made the most tackles in games and was a reasonable captain. A man in John Mitchell's own image so that might explain his selection. Probably a better player than Elliott Dixon.
But weak hands and not being great at lineout or as a ball-carrier meant he was behind Liam Squire, Shannon Frizell and Vaea Fifita in the AB Blindside pecking order. He would probably be on the AB bench this weekend instead of Gareth Evans if he had stuck with the NZRU.
All true, except swap the term 'weak' with 'tits for'.
I fail to see what relevance being mates with BB is. I'd say BB has some mates that haven't laced up since high school and whose rugby prowess is limited to drinking games.
