MOTM v England
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@victor-meldrew said in MOTM v England:
@machpants said in MOTM v England:
Disagree with McKenzie, five turnovers conceded. Not good enough in the wet, despite bravery and great on attack
England targeted him with the high ball in wet conditions and he was often isolated with bugger-all support. His only other option, other than to concede a turnover, was to concede a kickable penalty in his own 22/half. DMac's decision-making on defence was bloody impressive.
I agree. Watched the game twice, DMac was excellent.
I presume the 5 turnovers from the stats quoted above must include conceding the 5m scrum and the ball and all tackle into touch? Maybe even his attacking chase of an up and under which he knocked on? Because I didn't seem him conceding what I consider a turnover.
@rapido said in MOTM v England:
I presume the 5 turnovers from the stats quoted above must include conceding the 5m scrum and the ball and all tackle into touch? Maybe even his attacking chase of an up and under which he knocked on? Because I didn't seem him conceding what I consider a turnover.
he also got barrelled by Owen Farrell during his break up the middle in the second half causing him to knock on - but I agree DMac was terrific.
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@rapido said in MOTM v England:
I presume the 5 turnovers from the stats quoted above must include conceding the 5m scrum and the ball and all tackle into touch? Maybe even his attacking chase of an up and under which he knocked on? Because I didn't seem him conceding what I consider a turnover.
he also got barrelled by Owen Farrell during his break up the middle in the second half causing him to knock on - but I agree DMac was terrific.
@kiwimurph said in MOTM v England:
@rapido said in MOTM v England:
I presume the 5 turnovers from the stats quoted above must include conceding the 5m scrum and the ball and all tackle into touch? Maybe even his attacking chase of an up and under which he knocked on? Because I didn't seem him conceding what I consider a turnover.
he also got barrelled by Owen Farrell during his break up the middle in the second half causing him to knock on - but I agree DMac was terrific.
Actually, That also probable counts as one of the 5 turnovers.
It wasn't a loose carry, it's not even a mistake IMO. It was a great tackle that deliberately attempted to punch the ball out.
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@kiwimurph said in MOTM v England:
@rapido said in MOTM v England:
I presume the 5 turnovers from the stats quoted above must include conceding the 5m scrum and the ball and all tackle into touch? Maybe even his attacking chase of an up and under which he knocked on? Because I didn't seem him conceding what I consider a turnover.
he also got barrelled by Owen Farrell during his break up the middle in the second half causing him to knock on - but I agree DMac was terrific.
Actually, That also probable counts as one of the 5 turnovers.
It wasn't a loose carry, it's not even a mistake IMO. It was a great tackle that deliberately attempted to punch the ball out.
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@machpants said in MOTM v England:
Disagree with McKenzie, five turnovers conceded. Not good enough in the wet, despite bravery and great on attack
England targeted him with the high ball in wet conditions and he was often isolated with bugger-all support. His only other option, other than to concede a turnover, was to concede a kickable penalty in his own 22/half. DMac's decision-making on defence was bloody impressive.
@victor-meldrew said in MOTM v England:
England targeted him with the high ball in wet conditions and he was often isolated with bugger-all support.
I thought Garces was very liberal with his interpretation of contesting high balls. Ashton took out DMac once in the air without ever competing for the ball, and the time SBW knocked the ball on he was clearly bumped before he even caught the ball.
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Disagree with McKenzie, five turnovers conceded. Not good enough in the wet, despite bravery and great on attack
@machpants If BB can get votes (and he's getting them) then DMac can. BB put the ABs under pressure with poor execution in the first half.
However, BBBR, Ardie and Whitelock for me.
@paekakboyz said in MOTM v England:
. On reflection I think that is where SBW has fallen down in the last 12-18 months. He's looking for a single touch to make an offload or a grubber, and isn't bending or breaking the line like he used too.
Yep, he's reverted to his pre Chiefs style of play. Agreed he needs to just tuck the ball and run like he was doing a few years ago. Mix it up a bit.
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@machpants If BB can get votes (and he's getting them) then DMac can. BB put the ABs under pressure with poor execution in the first half.
However, BBBR, Ardie and Whitelock for me.
@paekakboyz said in MOTM v England:
. On reflection I think that is where SBW has fallen down in the last 12-18 months. He's looking for a single touch to make an offload or a grubber, and isn't bending or breaking the line like he used too.
Yep, he's reverted to his pre Chiefs style of play. Agreed he needs to just tuck the ball and run like he was doing a few years ago. Mix it up a bit.
@nepia whereas the work ons for laumape are to distribute and kick! He's doing a better job of rounding out his toolkit than SBW at the moment. I hope SBW hits form though in super rugby so we have as much competition as poss. But really hope that we dont pick him if he's only showing glimpses. Nonu here to save us anyway
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BTW, not exactly MoM stuff, but there was a wrap-tackle that Beauden put in on Sinckler that hammered the fat prick into the turf. If I'm ever in a position to I'm buying BB a beer just for that one joyous moment.
@jc said in MOTM v England:
BTW, not exactly MoM stuff, but there was a wrap-tackle that Beauden put in on Sinckler that hammered the fat prick into the turf. If I'm ever in a position to I'm buying BB a beer just for that one joyous moment.
Yeah that was good timing that, much like putting a stick in bike spokes and making a rider wipe out.
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Beaudy seemed to use some clever judo stuff and momentum did the rest, I'm still not sure how he did it, but it was great
@machpants said in MOTM v England:
Beaudy seemed to use some clever judo stuff and momentum did the rest, I'm still not sure how he did it, but it was great
Definitely a judo style toss. Sinclair went down hard and fast
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@victor-meldrew said in MOTM v England:
England targeted him with the high ball in wet conditions and he was often isolated with bugger-all support.
I thought Garces was very liberal with his interpretation of contesting high balls. Ashton took out DMac once in the air without ever competing for the ball, and the time SBW knocked the ball on he was clearly bumped before he even caught the ball.
@bovidae said in MOTM v England:
I thought Garces was very liberal with his interpretation of contesting high balls. Ashton took out DMac once in the air without ever competing for the ball, and the time SBW knocked the ball on he was clearly bumped before he even caught the ball.
YEah - weird consistency from week to week. Some weeks, that's approaching a yellow, this week it's all 'play on'. As we all say - all we want from refs is consistency
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BTW, not exactly MoM stuff, but there was a wrap-tackle that Beauden put in on Sinckler that hammered the fat prick into the turf. If I'm ever in a position to I'm buying BB a beer just for that one joyous moment.
Yeah, that was bloody impressive. He threw him into the ground like he was made of straw.
As an aside, the idiot English "supporters" (you know the type, disrupt the view as they get in 3 rounds of drinks per half) near us thought it was a spear tackle.
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@bones said in MOTM v England:
I like this being confused about turnover stats. I think the clue is in the word "turnover".
I'm genuinely surprised that they are considered turnovers. Its just retarded.
A turnover is taking it into a maul, ruck, or upright tackle and the opposition coming away with possession.
Not playing text book perfect defense 1m from your line which concedes a 5m scrum.
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@bones said in MOTM v England:
I like this being confused about turnover stats. I think the clue is in the word "turnover".
I'm genuinely surprised that they are considered turnovers. Its just retarded.
A turnover is taking it into a maul, ruck, or upright tackle and the opposition coming away with possession.
Not playing text book perfect defense 1m from your line which concedes a 5m scrum.
@rapido said in MOTM v England:
@bones said in MOTM v England:
I like this being confused about turnover stats. I think the clue is in the word "turnover".
I'm genuinely surprised that they are considered turnovers. Its just retarded.
A turnover is taking it into a maul, ruck, or upright tackle and the opposition coming away with possession.
Not playing text book perfect defense 1m from your line which concedes a 5m scrum.
Or taking the ball into touch?
And then how do you differentiate between that and when it's a genuine mistake by the player? Player catching the ball and stepping out or dotting down might be idiotic play at times. Like Naholo catching the ball and stepping out...
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Crotty, Savea and BFA for me the locks were massive in the tight but it was the loose where the English were cutting us open. When Crotty came on that all stopped.
I also don't think England get that soft try in the corner with Crotty on. Guys like Crotty and before him Conrad Smith who take on the role of organising the defense, can add so much to a team, yet you will never see it in the stats.
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Crotty, Savea and BFA for me the locks were massive in the tight but it was the loose where the English were cutting us open. When Crotty came on that all stopped.
I also don't think England get that soft try in the corner with Crotty on. Guys like Crotty and before him Conrad Smith who take on the role of organising the defense, can add so much to a team, yet you will never see it in the stats.
@mooshld said in MOTM v England:
I also don't think England get that soft try in the corner with Crotty on. Guys like Crotty and before him Conrad Smith who take on the role of organising the defense, can add so much to a team, yet you will never see it in the stats.
I think they read that as a planned move against our defnesive systems. So - quite probably get that try even with Conrad around ... it was a really slick piece of rugby. Well done to the Poms
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@mooshld said in MOTM v England:
I also don't think England get that soft try in the corner with Crotty on. Guys like Crotty and before him Conrad Smith who take on the role of organising the defense, can add so much to a team, yet you will never see it in the stats.
I think they read that as a planned move against our defnesive systems. So - quite probably get that try even with Conrad around ... it was a really slick piece of rugby. Well done to the Poms
@nzzp said in MOTM v England:
@mooshld said in MOTM v England:
I also don't think England get that soft try in the corner with Crotty on. Guys like Crotty and before him Conrad Smith who take on the role of organising the defense, can add so much to a team, yet you will never see it in the stats.
I think they read that as a planned move against our defnesive systems. So - quite probably get that try even with Conrad around ... it was a really slick piece of rugby. Well done to the Poms
So maybe one of the work-ons is that, since we know every team is going to give it heaps straight out of the block, we need to win that first kickoff at all costs. Keep hold of the ball until their tails start to droop.
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@mooshld said in MOTM v England:
I also don't think England get that soft try in the corner with Crotty on. Guys like Crotty and before him Conrad Smith who take on the role of organising the defense, can add so much to a team, yet you will never see it in the stats.
I think they read that as a planned move against our defnesive systems. So - quite probably get that try even with Conrad around ... it was a really slick piece of rugby. Well done to the Poms
I don't know about that, I'm watching the replay and went through it a few times, and it's true that Ioane is narrow and not looking to cover, but also SBW goes hairing back across field (the other way) leaving Good hue and Ioane covering three men (I count six on the replay including the England HB, with only A smith, Goodhue and Ioane there and Dmac coming in cover). It was always on and I think that if SBW had stayed they might have numbered up.
