Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
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@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Marshall would do a far better job today than Smith would back then, whatever that means.
So basically don't dine out too much on Marshall talking absolute nonsense today, he was a fucken good All Black. Slimly better than a somewhat limited, though brilliant Aaron Smith, I reckonReally? I think our game has moved on. Look at almost all of our best halfbacks and they're predominantly passers - Smith, TTT, Drummond, Webber etc. The Marshall-style halfbacks are largely out of the frame because they don't fit into the system at all - Pulu, Hall to name a couple. TJP is only there because of his prolific try-scoring and as insurance when we need to move away from our preferred system.
I'm also not sure that Smith would have been as bad as you think during Marshy's era. I would have thought that our frail first-fives and powerhouse wings and fullbacks would have absolutely loved playing with the extra time and space his quicker and more accurate pass would give. That's also without mentioning that a quick and accurate pass could have made up for our weak forward efforts to some extent.
@junior said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Marshall would do a far better job today than Smith would back then, whatever that means.
So basically don't dine out too much on Marshall talking absolute nonsense today, he was a fucken good All Black. Slimly better than a somewhat limited, though brilliant Aaron Smith, I reckonReally? I think our game has moved on. Look at almost all of our best halfbacks and they're predominantly passers - Smith, TTT, Drummond, Webber etc. The Marshall-style halfbacks are largely out of the frame because they don't fit into the system at all - Pulu, Hall to name a couple. TJP is only there because of his prolific try-scoring and as insurance when we need to move away from our preferred system.
Yeah, TJP is pretty clearly in better form than Smith right now but Smith continues to be selected as his passing game is light years ahead. No doubt it is a massive part of the way the ABs play.
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Smith is a far better halfback than Marshall was. The quality of service is night and day. Very different styles of course and Marshall had a fine career. I think Marshall suited his era more than he would the current era - Pulu reminds me of a typical halfback from Marshall's time playing in the current day (obviously Marshall was far superior than Pulu is but just in terms of styles).
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Smith is a far better halfback than Marshall was. The quality of service is night and day. Very different styles of course and Marshall had a fine career. I think Marshall suited his era more than he would the current era - Pulu reminds me of a typical halfback from Marshall's time playing in the current day (obviously Marshall was far superior than Pulu is but just in terms of styles).
@kiwimurph I think you mean Pulu is in the Marshall mould.
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Smith is also a gun organiser. He runs the attack half the time, and doesn't mind chewing out his forwards
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@mooshld said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I say it every time we play. But "Come on Boys I need this win" My misses and all my outlaws are Irish! I can dine off this for the next year. But if we lose, I cop it nonstop.
Sadly if your in-laws are anything like many of the Irish 'fans' on the interweb you will cop it anyway. They will find a reason (like 'you played too hard').
Fern company excluded of course. We seem to attract a better quality
@crucial said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@mooshld said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I say it every time we play. But "Come on Boys I need this win" My misses and all my outlaws are Irish! I can dine off this for the next year. But if we lose, I cop it nonstop.
Sadly if your in-laws are anything like many of the Irish 'fans' on the interweb you will cop it anyway. They will find a reason (like 'you played too hard').
Fern company excluded of course. We seem to attract a better qualityThere was a time this was true. But since they have been so successful lately they are copping the same sort of criticism. When they beat England it was injuries when they beat Wales the ref was in their favour etc....
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@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Imagine if Meg had a decent pass?
He's not even the best AB halfback to come out of Canterbury. No, not Bruce Deans but Bachop.
Can't remember Bachop playing 80 odd games.
But facts don't matter with opinions huh?
Marshall pass wasn't the liability that Smith's defence is against a decent forward pack. Smith was poor against the books last 2 games, just not up to the physicality.
Both are great players but Marshall had less limitations, scored more tries (24 - 16), kicked better and never cried on telly
For sure Smith has a better pass but apart from recency bias, name one other attribute he is distinctly better than Marsh at?
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@crucial said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I wouldn’t want to be a 10 receiving Megs passes in this era. The chances of surviving a game without broken ribs would be low.
You wouldn't want to be something you have no chance of being?
Weird@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crucial said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I wouldn’t want to be a 10 receiving Megs passes in this era. The chances of surviving a game without broken ribs would be low.
You wouldn't want to be something you have no chance of being?
WeirdYou have no idea the offers I get from the selectors, but I simply refuse to come out of retirement.
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@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Imagine if Meg had a decent pass?
He's not even the best AB halfback to come out of Canterbury. No, not Bruce Deans but Bachop.
Can't remember Bachop playing 80 odd games.
But facts don't matter with opinions huh?
Marshall pass wasn't the liability that Smith's defence is against a decent forward pack. Smith was poor against the books last 2 games, just not up to the physicality.
Both are great players but Marshall had less limitations, scored more tries (24 - 16), kicked better and never cried on telly
For sure Smith has a better pass but apart from recency bias, name one other attribute he is distinctly better than Marsh at?
@siam Best to just accept that Marshall had many good attributes as a halfback but passing wasn't one of them. That's why Bachop was always my choice in an all-time AB XV in the modern era until Smith came along.
Smith has his weaknesses too, as you mentioned, and can be bullied if his forwards aren't giving him a good platform. An abrasive halfback can get in his face, TKB used to regularly do that.
I was watching an interview with Hansen today where he mentions how much the AB gameplan has changed due to Smith's passing and speed to the rucks.
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@siam Best to just accept that Marshall had many good attributes as a halfback but passing wasn't one of them. That's why Bachop was always my choice in an all-time AB XV in the modern era until Smith came along.
Smith has his weaknesses too, as you mentioned, and can be bullied if his forwards aren't giving him a good platform. An abrasive halfback can get in his face, TKB used to regularly do that.
I was watching an interview with Hansen today where he mentions how much the AB gameplan has changed due to Smith's passing and speed to the rucks.
@bovidae based on that it'll be interesting post-smith. Is his level of passing skill a once in 5-10 year thing? Ie a Richie level phenom that we'll be pressed to match again?
In terms of passing accuracy and speed there are days of daylight to the chasing pack. Hmm who would be next fastest? TTT? Weber maybe? TJP would trail those guys imo, but has plenty of other strengths which make him clear #2.
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@bovidae based on that it'll be interesting post-smith. Is his level of passing skill a once in 5-10 year thing? Ie a Richie level phenom that we'll be pressed to match again?
In terms of passing accuracy and speed there are days of daylight to the chasing pack. Hmm who would be next fastest? TTT? Weber maybe? TJP would trail those guys imo, but has plenty of other strengths which make him clear #2.
@paekakboyz reckon Tahuriorangi looks very promising in that regard.
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@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Imagine if Meg had a decent pass?
He's not even the best AB halfback to come out of Canterbury. No, not Bruce Deans but Bachop.
Can't remember Bachop playing 80 odd games.
But facts don't matter with opinions huh?
Marshall pass wasn't the liability that Smith's defence is against a decent forward pack. Smith was poor against the books last 2 games, just not up to the physicality.
Both are great players but Marshall had less limitations, scored more tries (24 - 16), kicked better and never cried on telly
For sure Smith has a better pass but apart from recency bias, name one other attribute he is distinctly better than Marsh at?
@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Imagine if Meg had a decent pass?
He's not even the best AB halfback to come out of Canterbury. No, not Bruce Deans but Bachop.
Can't remember Bachop playing 80 odd games.
But facts don't matter with opinions huh?
Marshall pass wasn't the liability that Smith's defence is against a decent forward pack. Smith was poor against the books last 2 games, just not up to the physicality.
Both are great players but Marshall had less limitations, scored more tries (24 - 16), kicked better and never cried on telly
For sure Smith has a better pass but apart from recency bias, name one other attribute he is distinctly better than Marsh at?
Isn't Marshall the losingest All Black? More losses than any other?
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@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Imagine if Meg had a decent pass?
He's not even the best AB halfback to come out of Canterbury. No, not Bruce Deans but Bachop.
Can't remember Bachop playing 80 odd games.
But facts don't matter with opinions huh?
Marshall pass wasn't the liability that Smith's defence is against a decent forward pack. Smith was poor against the books last 2 games, just not up to the physicality.
Both are great players but Marshall had less limitations, scored more tries (24 - 16), kicked better and never cried on telly
For sure Smith has a better pass but apart from recency bias, name one other attribute he is distinctly better than Marsh at?
Isn't Marshall the losingest All Black? More losses than any other?
@booboo Randell??
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@bovidae based on that it'll be interesting post-smith. Is his level of passing skill a once in 5-10 year thing? Ie a Richie level phenom that we'll be pressed to match again?
In terms of passing accuracy and speed there are days of daylight to the chasing pack. Hmm who would be next fastest? TTT? Weber maybe? TJP would trail those guys imo, but has plenty of other strengths which make him clear #2.
@paekakboyz They like TTT because he is similar to a young Smith. It's not just the speed of the pass that is important but the length you can pass too. The 1st 5 can not only stand flatter but wider.
It will be interesting to see who starts for the Chiefs next year.
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@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Imagine if Meg had a decent pass?
He's not even the best AB halfback to come out of Canterbury. No, not Bruce Deans but Bachop.
Can't remember Bachop playing 80 odd games.
But facts don't matter with opinions huh?
Marshall pass wasn't the liability that Smith's defence is against a decent forward pack. Smith was poor against the books last 2 games, just not up to the physicality.
Both are great players but Marshall had less limitations, scored more tries (24 - 16), kicked better and never cried on telly
For sure Smith has a better pass but apart from recency bias, name one other attribute he is distinctly better than Marsh at?
Isn't Marshall the losingest All Black? More losses than any other?
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Isn't Marshall the losingest All Black? More losses than any other?
I think he is. 19 losses in 81 tests. Edit: Mehrts also had 19 test losses but in 70 tests.
@Paekakboyz Randell had 14 losses in 51 tests.
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@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Isn't Marshall the losingest All Black? More losses than any other?
I think he is. 19 losses in 81 tests. Edit: Mehrts also had 19 test losses but in 70 tests.
@Paekakboyz Randell had 14 losses in 51 tests.
@bovidae ah, including the year we shall not talk about!
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@derm-mccrum said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@sparky said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@machpants Don't know what Foster hopes to gain from criticising Aki for doing what was best for his career when Foster didn't pick him for higher honours.
Aki has been copping a fair bit this week from various sources. It's kind of like people just worked out that he's playing for Ireland now, but hey I'm sure he's shrugged it off.
There was some quite animated discussion about it here a few years back, some twat from the emerald Isle tried to claim it wasn't poaching . Apparently its not poaching there was a "tacit agreement" according to him.
There was talk/mockery about how ridiculous it was to give Michael Bent a jersey when he turned up at Dublin airport too.
@jegga said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@derm-mccrum said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@sparky said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@machpants Don't know what Foster hopes to gain from criticising Aki for doing what was best for his career when Foster didn't pick him for higher honours.
Aki has been copping a fair bit this week from various sources. It's kind of like people just worked out that he's playing for Ireland now, but hey I'm sure he's shrugged it off.
There was some quite animated discussion about it here a few years back, some twat from the emerald Isle tried to claim it wasn't poaching . Apparently its not poaching there was a "tacit agreement" according to him.
There was talk/mockery about how ridiculous it was to give Michael Bent a jersey when he turned up at Dublin airport too.
Eh Tacit agreement was a phrase someone on here invented. What was the name of this twat?
