Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
-
@crucial said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I wouldnât want to be a 10 receiving Megs passes in this era. The chances of surviving a game without broken ribs would be low.
You wouldn't want to be something you have no chance of being?
Weird@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crucial said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I wouldnât want to be a 10 receiving Megs passes in this era. The chances of surviving a game without broken ribs would be low.
You wouldn't want to be something you have no chance of being?
WeirdYou have no idea the offers I get from the selectors, but I simply refuse to come out of retirement.
-
@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Imagine if Meg had a decent pass?
He's not even the best AB halfback to come out of Canterbury. No, not Bruce Deans but Bachop.
Can't remember Bachop playing 80 odd games.
But facts don't matter with opinions huh?
Marshall pass wasn't the liability that Smith's defence is against a decent forward pack. Smith was poor against the books last 2 games, just not up to the physicality.
Both are great players but Marshall had less limitations, scored more tries (24 - 16), kicked better and never cried on telly
For sure Smith has a better pass but apart from recency bias, name one other attribute he is distinctly better than Marsh at?
@siam Best to just accept that Marshall had many good attributes as a halfback but passing wasn't one of them. That's why Bachop was always my choice in an all-time AB XV in the modern era until Smith came along.
Smith has his weaknesses too, as you mentioned, and can be bullied if his forwards aren't giving him a good platform. An abrasive halfback can get in his face, TKB used to regularly do that.
I was watching an interview with Hansen today where he mentions how much the AB gameplan has changed due to Smith's passing and speed to the rucks.
-
@siam Best to just accept that Marshall had many good attributes as a halfback but passing wasn't one of them. That's why Bachop was always my choice in an all-time AB XV in the modern era until Smith came along.
Smith has his weaknesses too, as you mentioned, and can be bullied if his forwards aren't giving him a good platform. An abrasive halfback can get in his face, TKB used to regularly do that.
I was watching an interview with Hansen today where he mentions how much the AB gameplan has changed due to Smith's passing and speed to the rucks.
@bovidae based on that it'll be interesting post-smith. Is his level of passing skill a once in 5-10 year thing? Ie a Richie level phenom that we'll be pressed to match again?
In terms of passing accuracy and speed there are days of daylight to the chasing pack. Hmm who would be next fastest? TTT? Weber maybe? TJP would trail those guys imo, but has plenty of other strengths which make him clear #2.
-
@bovidae based on that it'll be interesting post-smith. Is his level of passing skill a once in 5-10 year thing? Ie a Richie level phenom that we'll be pressed to match again?
In terms of passing accuracy and speed there are days of daylight to the chasing pack. Hmm who would be next fastest? TTT? Weber maybe? TJP would trail those guys imo, but has plenty of other strengths which make him clear #2.
@paekakboyz reckon Tahuriorangi looks very promising in that regard.
-
@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Imagine if Meg had a decent pass?
He's not even the best AB halfback to come out of Canterbury. No, not Bruce Deans but Bachop.
Can't remember Bachop playing 80 odd games.
But facts don't matter with opinions huh?
Marshall pass wasn't the liability that Smith's defence is against a decent forward pack. Smith was poor against the books last 2 games, just not up to the physicality.
Both are great players but Marshall had less limitations, scored more tries (24 - 16), kicked better and never cried on telly
For sure Smith has a better pass but apart from recency bias, name one other attribute he is distinctly better than Marsh at?
@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Imagine if Meg had a decent pass?
He's not even the best AB halfback to come out of Canterbury. No, not Bruce Deans but Bachop.
Can't remember Bachop playing 80 odd games.
But facts don't matter with opinions huh?
Marshall pass wasn't the liability that Smith's defence is against a decent forward pack. Smith was poor against the books last 2 games, just not up to the physicality.
Both are great players but Marshall had less limitations, scored more tries (24 - 16), kicked better and never cried on telly
For sure Smith has a better pass but apart from recency bias, name one other attribute he is distinctly better than Marsh at?
Isn't Marshall the losingest All Black? More losses than any other?
-
@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Imagine if Meg had a decent pass?
He's not even the best AB halfback to come out of Canterbury. No, not Bruce Deans but Bachop.
Can't remember Bachop playing 80 odd games.
But facts don't matter with opinions huh?
Marshall pass wasn't the liability that Smith's defence is against a decent forward pack. Smith was poor against the books last 2 games, just not up to the physicality.
Both are great players but Marshall had less limitations, scored more tries (24 - 16), kicked better and never cried on telly
For sure Smith has a better pass but apart from recency bias, name one other attribute he is distinctly better than Marsh at?
Isn't Marshall the losingest All Black? More losses than any other?
@booboo Randell??
-
@bovidae based on that it'll be interesting post-smith. Is his level of passing skill a once in 5-10 year thing? Ie a Richie level phenom that we'll be pressed to match again?
In terms of passing accuracy and speed there are days of daylight to the chasing pack. Hmm who would be next fastest? TTT? Weber maybe? TJP would trail those guys imo, but has plenty of other strengths which make him clear #2.
@paekakboyz They like TTT because he is similar to a young Smith. It's not just the speed of the pass that is important but the length you can pass too. The 1st 5 can not only stand flatter but wider.
It will be interesting to see who starts for the Chiefs next year.
-
@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Imagine if Meg had a decent pass?
He's not even the best AB halfback to come out of Canterbury. No, not Bruce Deans but Bachop.
Can't remember Bachop playing 80 odd games.
But facts don't matter with opinions huh?
Marshall pass wasn't the liability that Smith's defence is against a decent forward pack. Smith was poor against the books last 2 games, just not up to the physicality.
Both are great players but Marshall had less limitations, scored more tries (24 - 16), kicked better and never cried on telly
For sure Smith has a better pass but apart from recency bias, name one other attribute he is distinctly better than Marsh at?
Isn't Marshall the losingest All Black? More losses than any other?
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Isn't Marshall the losingest All Black? More losses than any other?
I think he is. 19 losses in 81 tests. Edit: Mehrts also had 19 test losses but in 70 tests.
@Paekakboyz Randell had 14 losses in 51 tests.
-
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Isn't Marshall the losingest All Black? More losses than any other?
I think he is. 19 losses in 81 tests. Edit: Mehrts also had 19 test losses but in 70 tests.
@Paekakboyz Randell had 14 losses in 51 tests.
@bovidae ah, including the year we shall not talk about!
-
@derm-mccrum said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@sparky said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@machpants Don't know what Foster hopes to gain from criticising Aki for doing what was best for his career when Foster didn't pick him for higher honours.
Aki has been copping a fair bit this week from various sources. It's kind of like people just worked out that he's playing for Ireland now, but hey I'm sure he's shrugged it off.
There was some quite animated discussion about it here a few years back, some twat from the emerald Isle tried to claim it wasn't poaching . Apparently its not poaching there was a "tacit agreement" according to him.
There was talk/mockery about how ridiculous it was to give Michael Bent a jersey when he turned up at Dublin airport too.
@jegga said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@derm-mccrum said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@sparky said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@machpants Don't know what Foster hopes to gain from criticising Aki for doing what was best for his career when Foster didn't pick him for higher honours.
Aki has been copping a fair bit this week from various sources. It's kind of like people just worked out that he's playing for Ireland now, but hey I'm sure he's shrugged it off.
There was some quite animated discussion about it here a few years back, some twat from the emerald Isle tried to claim it wasn't poaching . Apparently its not poaching there was a "tacit agreement" according to him.
There was talk/mockery about how ridiculous it was to give Michael Bent a jersey when he turned up at Dublin airport too.
Eh Tacit agreement was a phrase someone on here invented. What was the name of this twat?
-
Those 1014 lads give Owen Franks an easy time, stating that the ABs look for something else in there TH prop, which they clearly don't have the numbers for, because as you go through it you see no carries, consistent 2 missed tackles per 80 minutes, and a much lower tackle percentage. Is our scrum that good? Is the that good of a cleaner?
Interesting how they point out some of the difficulties for us in the midfield.
-
Those 1014 lads give Owen Franks an easy time, stating that the ABs look for something else in there TH prop, which they clearly don't have the numbers for, because as you go through it you see no carries, consistent 2 missed tackles per 80 minutes, and a much lower tackle percentage. Is our scrum that good? Is the that good of a cleaner?
Interesting how they point out some of the difficulties for us in the midfield.
@junior Although our forwards catching those bullets are standing very flat, much more so than in previous years.
-
@crucial said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Look. Tana and BOD have buried the hatchet and are sharing a laugh.
This needs a new caption,
â they paid you how much and you won how many games?
â yeah I know rightâ
Sound of uncontrollable laughter@jegga said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crucial said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Look. Tana and BOD have buried the hatchet and are sharing a laugh.
This needs a new caption,
â they paid you how much and you won how many games?
â yeah I know rightâ
Sound of uncontrollable laughterFirst thing I thought - that's a great photo for a "Caption Competition"
-
Those 1014 lads give Owen Franks an easy time, stating that the ABs look for something else in there TH prop, which they clearly don't have the numbers for, because as you go through it you see no carries, consistent 2 missed tackles per 80 minutes, and a much lower tackle percentage. Is our scrum that good? Is the that good of a cleaner?
Interesting how they point out some of the difficulties for us in the midfield.
@gt12 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Those 1014 lads give Owen Franks an easy time, stating that the ABs look for something else in there TH prop, which they clearly don't have the numbers for, because as you go through it you see no carries, consistent 2 missed tackles per 80 minutes, and a much lower tackle percentage. Is our scrum that good? Is the that good of a cleaner?
Interesting how they point out some of the difficulties for us in the midfield.
I think Franks is rated on his handling skills and playmaking in those pods. I have no evidence to support that but it is all I can think of.
-
@gt12 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Those 1014 lads give Owen Franks an easy time, stating that the ABs look for something else in there TH prop, which they clearly don't have the numbers for, because as you go through it you see no carries, consistent 2 missed tackles per 80 minutes, and a much lower tackle percentage. Is our scrum that good? Is the that good of a cleaner?
Interesting how they point out some of the difficulties for us in the midfield.
I think Franks is rated on his handling skills and playmaking in those pods. I have no evidence to support that but it is all I can think of.
It could be that, and I'm not having a go at you at all, but if so why the fuck did we get rid of Charlie Faimuina? As a runner, passer, and pretty much any kind of athlete, he was superior, plus his scrummaging was catching up and certainly at international level as a starter. I get that due to their ages, we had to commit to one, but I can't help but feel that during the last two years the ABs would have been been if Charlie stayed and Owen cashed out.
-
It could be that, and I'm not having a go at you at all, but if so why the fuck did we get rid of Charlie Faimuina? As a runner, passer, and pretty much any kind of athlete, he was superior, plus his scrummaging was catching up and certainly at international level as a starter. I get that due to their ages, we had to commit to one, but I can't help but feel that during the last two years the ABs would have been been if Charlie stayed and Owen cashed out.
@gt12 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
It could be that, and I'm not having a go at you at all, but if so why the fuck did we get rid of Charlie Faimuina? As a runner, passer, and pretty much any kind of athlete, he was superior, plus his scrummaging was catching up and certainly at international level as a starter. I get that due to their ages, we had to commit to one, but I can't help but feel that during the last two years the ABs would have been been if Charlie stayed and Owen cashed out.
I agree. I have been baffled by Franks continued high standing with the selectors. From my eye it looks like a case of 'trains like Tarzan, plays like Jane'.
Charlie would have been great to hold on to but I tend to remember that the opportunity for his family was slightly bigger than the jersey and Franks wouldn't have been ditched immediately anyway. -
Those 1014 lads give Owen Franks an easy time, stating that the ABs look for something else in there TH prop, which they clearly don't have the numbers for, because as you go through it you see no carries, consistent 2 missed tackles per 80 minutes, and a much lower tackle percentage. Is our scrum that good? Is the that good of a cleaner?
Interesting how they point out some of the difficulties for us in the midfield.
@gt12 so he misses 1 tackle a game then. Thatâs hardly a sackable offence. There is a sting in how he hits rucks and is a nuisance in slowing ball. His tight play has allowed other props to flourish that are more ball running inclined. He is a key lifter at lineout time and his hands are superb when he is used to catch flat bullets from Smith.
-
NZ have been blessed with half backs with an outstanding pass. Loveridge, Donaldson, Bachop and now Smith. Australia were fine too with Hipwell (he did impress me when I was a young kid and was my model when I began to play half back), Farr-Jones and Gregan.
-
@gt12 so he misses 1 tackle a game then. Thatâs hardly a sackable offence. There is a sting in how he hits rucks and is a nuisance in slowing ball. His tight play has allowed other props to flourish that are more ball running inclined. He is a key lifter at lineout time and his hands are superb when he is used to catch flat bullets from Smith.
Thought that would send off the bat sign.
Lately (i.e., last five or 6 games), it's pretty much always two actual missed tackles, and I wonder if that is because he is getting tired?
He did well against Australia, but less well against the French. Overall, I have him at about 78% success for this year, and 1.9 missed tackles over 80 minutes across 10 matches - including the three matches where he missed none. Source: ESPN stats
vs England, 44 minutes, made 6, missed 2 (75%, 3.6 for 80 minutes)
vs Australia (Tokyo), 52 minutes, made 5, missed 2 (71%, 3.1 for 80 minutes)
vs SA (in SA), 45 minutes, made 9, missed 2 (82%, 3.6 for 80 minutes)
vs SA (Wellington), 48 minutes, made 2, missed 1 (66%, 1.7 for 80 minutes)
vs Argentina (Nelson), 46 minutes, made 3, missed 2 (60%, 3.5 for 80 minutes)
vs Aus (Auckland), 51 minutes, made 11, missed 0 (100%, 0 for 80 minutes)
vs Aus (Sydney), 58 minutes, made 8, missed 0 (100%, 0 for 80 minutes)
vs France (Dunedin), 45 minutes, made 10, missed 2 (83%, 3.6 for 80 minutes)
vs France (Wellington), 33 minutes, made 3, missed 3 (50%, 7.3 for 80 minutes)
vs France (Auckland), 57 minutes, made 5, missed 0 (100%, 0 for 80 minutes)
