Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
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@akan004 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crucial Agreed, they have looked flat. I thought this was the year that they wouldn't be flat on the EOYT considering a lot of our forwards had not played many minutes. Perhaps Shag is getting stale, not sure...but in the three big games this year (Pretoria, London, Dublin), we have looked out of sorts.
Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I just hope that the coaches didn't want to play the game they have in mind for the RWC, just because they don't want to give anything away.
@stargazer while I think there is some truth in what you are saying, I think they needed to be able to adjust when it was evident the game plan wasnt working, rather than persist...so why we didnt respond and adjust our game is more concernign to me.
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@canefan said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
If Nonu is serious about making a tilt, and he's 85% as good as 2015 or better, he'll walk in
Yeah, but who would Ma'a replace in our settled midfield combination?
(Irony alert)
@victor-meldrew said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
If Nonu is serious about making a tilt, and he's 85% as good as 2015 or better, he'll walk in
Yeah, but who would Ma'a replace in our settled midfield combination?
(Irony alert)
I think I'm leading the Ma'a fan club, he would definitely give us some midfield presence that we're missing. But he won't be the panacea.
Ma'a version 2.015 and Goodhue in the midfield would be amazing. Big question mark over whether Ma'a can come back like that. -
The one massive positive from this game is that we have finally found a top class blindside flanker. Thought Scott Barrett was outstanding. Now we need to find his back up as Squire, Frizell and Fifita are not up to it.
@akan004 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
The one massive positive from this game is that we have finally found a top class blindside flanker. Thought Scott Barrett was outstanding. Now we need to find his back up as Squire, Frizell and Fifita are not up to it.
He's played really well this year at every opportunity hasn't he this year - and played a lot of minutes also. If Squire doesn't go down injured (and had been playing a bit better) I think we would've seen Scott on for Retallick or Whitelock.
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Thats it! We can't win the RWC now. The golden reign is over! Darkness descending upon our national game. Wait for the journos to go batshit...
This is what I find interesting...
In Test 1 v the BIL. We demonstrated a clinically brutal and efficient game - and then we put it away. We've brought it out in patches, the odd half, but thats it.
Some of the reason is Aaron Smith - go back and watch highlights of the AB's 2013-2016 - he used to skip to each ruck. Get it and fling accurate 20m passes and give us momentum - thats just not happening - except today, when TJ did it - what the hell is up with Smith?Theres so many little 1%-ers we're not nailing, 3 time in tests we've dropped the ball at the end chasing the W, Sam Cane v Australia, Dmac v SA, Retallick v Ireland today. Droppsies at the end don't lose a test but they're a sign we're a. fatigued, or b. not mentally getting it right - why aren't we getting the clarity we used to?
Was Richie such a standard setter and a freak in this regard - he was able to demand it?
I read a story on Read & Whitelock who say they operate differently and don't demand things quite the same - issue?I really don't believe Barrett is the issue. I think it lies with who is around him.
2016 he was incredible, when he was getting quick ball, and Crotty was on his shoulder.
I think hes shown in the last two tests he can control things and push us into parts of the field we want to be (not without saying, a few of his grubbers were a bit long v England)I like that we can scramble through game-plans to find one that works - I wonder though - are we getting a bit muddled because we have too many options?
We're a great chance to get the RWC three-peat, we'll win through our pool, quarters will be fine. As long as our coaches get clarity and we sharpen our focus over the summer.Lastly, what pisses me off, is that we just seem to be playing dumb & loose. The Irish showed the value of keeping possession. If you've got it, they can't score. And thats what happened today.
All of our starters can fuck-off for summer. They don't get to fix it vs. Italy. They can go let that niggly little rock fester all several months.@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I really don't believe Barrett is the issue. I think it lies with who is around him.
Good point. Carter & Cruden had stability outside them - almost always Nonu - plus a firing on all cylinders Aaron Smith,
BB had SBW, Crotty, ALB, Laumape - almost like a revolving door - and a strangely out-of-form Smith
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Akira Ioane says hello
@nightmarehitter said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Akira Ioane says hello
Not in top-50 AB's remember...
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Akira Ioane says hello
@nightmarehitter said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Akira Ioane says hello
Uh oh when @Bones sees this....
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Unlike some, I'm not hitting the panic button yet. Still plenty of time to go until the RWC. Need to get things right during the shortened Rugby Championship though.
Fair point. Better to clean up the shit from the fan now rather than in 9 months time
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This was not a game for 2018 Akira at all.
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ALB and Goodhue are the next long term midfielders if they ever get a chance to form a combo.
Totally agree.
I'd really like to know what is in Hansen's head with his midfield selections. It's like Graham Henry's Rotation policy at 12/13.
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@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I really don't believe Barrett is the issue. I think it lies with who is around him.
Good point. Carter & Cruden had stability outside them - almost always Nonu - plus a firing on all cylinders Aaron Smith,
BB had SBW, Crotty, ALB, Laumape - almost like a revolving door - and a strangely out-of-form Smith
@victor-meldrew said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I really don't believe Barrett is the issue. I think it lies with who is around him.
Good point. Carter & Cruden had stability outside them - almost always Nonu - plus a firing on all cylinders Aaron Smith,
BB had SBW, Crotty, ALB, Laumape - almost like a revolving door - and a strangely out-of-form Smith
And again, in 2016, BB slayed it.
This is how our backline should look...
9. A halfback who gets to the ball quickly and gives it to our 10 to run things quickly - TTT is probably the best at this currently, TJP 2nd, Aaron Smith 3rd.
10. Beaudy
11. Ioane - who we need to give some fucking space to do some stuff in
12. A midfielder who can bend the line - SBW isn't doing it, so Ma'a and Laumape should come into reckoning.
13. Goodhue
14 & 15. Ben Smith, and another fullback who can do the business at FB or wing. Naholo might've been a better bet today, bend the line. -
@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I really don't believe Barrett is the issue. I think it lies with who is around him.
Good point. Carter & Cruden had stability outside them - almost always Nonu - plus a firing on all cylinders Aaron Smith,
BB had SBW, Crotty, ALB, Laumape - almost like a revolving door - and a strangely out-of-form Smith
@victor-meldrew said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I really don't believe Barrett is the issue. I think it lies with who is around him.
Good point. Carter & Cruden had stability outside them - almost always Nonu - plus a firing on all cylinders Aaron Smith,
BB had SBW, Crotty, ALB, Laumape - almost like a revolving door - and a strangely out-of-form Smith
Carter and Cruden are completely different styled 10s to Barrett. Barrett relies on individual brilliance more than Carter and Cruden did.
I always think about what Barrett will be like as a 10 when he loses his pace - it's not a pretty thought.
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Great stuff Ireland. Played outstanding rugby and justly got the result. They are the bench mark. For now.
Read is old.
Box kicks suck and just turn over possession.
Ben Smith is the worlds best full back but lets play him on the wing..
Mckenzie is just above Jordie Barrett in suitability to test rugby...near enough isn't good enough.
We seriously miss Cane and Id play both him and Ardie if the former wasnt injured.
Aaron Smith is not currently our best option. And has not been for a while.
Moody's absence is clearly a proplem.
The best midfielder we have didnt come on until 3 1/4s of the game was gone.
And Beuden Barrett is not a player deserving of a world player of the year nod. We were decidedly better organised once Mounga came on.I am not panicking and saying throw the baby out with the bathwater. But Read looks like 2019 might be a bridge too far. He needs one hell of an off season.
We need to stop using the box kick like its a high percentage play. It's fucking not anymore. We are simply giving the ball back to teams who are expecting the box kick now. We do not have a monopoly on aerial kick reception but we put up ineffectual kicks like we think we do.
I can not understand the selection of Mckenzie ahead of Smith other than future proofing. Mckenzie is often out of position on kick reception and he drops them at a fair clip. Mckenzie is an amazing player but he is not better than Smith and on that notion should not be selected ahead of him.
TJ is better suited to NH teams. He is more combative and does not get bullied as much as Smith does when the pack is going backwards. You can say it was a tiring Irish pack when TJ came on, maybe it was, but IMO TJ is edging Smith currently and would have been better for this game.
Savea was the pick of the forwards for me, closely followed by BBBR. But these guys need some help. With Read slowing down , Whitelock looking in similar shape and the second coming of Rueben Thorne we were easily out played by Stander and co. Same vs England. Cane is a huge loss and provided he gets back to full health I think the way forward is Ardie at 8, Cane 7 and Barrett at 6. Barrett is probably a stop gap. Squires shoukd just not be selected though. Hes woefully shit.
Our scrum has either been amazing or rubbish and no real inbetween. Moody being injured is hurting though and the big fulla is finding these NH scrums a bit tougher than the Argies, Wobblies and Boks.
BB is playing too flat footed and not giving any room to his outsides. Hes just so out of sorts as a play maker and yiu could only really see in structure in our play once Mounga came on. Not sure Mounga is ready to take over but he looked more in control than Barrett. Kicking boits are working though...
Biggest problem for me are the coaches selections. Yes they are 100% experimental and geared towards the WC but still frustrating to watch over the last 2 games. ALB is our best attacking midfielder and hes getting sweet fa in time on the field. just hurry the fuck up play goodhue and him fron start to finish.
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Pretty simple for me, we lost this in the forwards. Get more direct, go up the guts and win the physical battle before we go wide
@canefan said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Pretty simple for me, we lost this in the forwards. Get more direct, go up the guts and win the physical battle before we go wide
And this looks something like our best gameplan - again, check the first test vs BIL.
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@canefan said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Pretty simple for me, we lost this in the forwards. Get more direct, go up the guts and win the physical battle before we go wide
And this looks something like our best gameplan - again, check the first test vs BIL.
@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Pretty simple for me, we lost this in the forwards. Get more direct, go up the guts and win the physical battle before we go wide
And this looks something like our best gameplan - again, check the first test vs BIL.
For me its always been our best game plan. Monster the opposition up front and in defence, control the breakdown and the set piece, let the backs seal the deal. IIRC we played that way in the 2015 final too. We weren't able to do any of that tonight and I think much of that was attitude and mindset. Just got to man up
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I guess some consolation is that despite being outmuscled, outplayed and outcoached and the questionable tactics and errors, the difference was that freakish try.
It's disappointing, but no reason to shit the bed. They looked good to storm home in the last 20 but seemed to panic.
Ireland's commitment and heart were astonishing, but how many games can they do that for? They could win a RWC with a performance like that, but would they have enough in the tank to do that for 3 games straight? Will be interesting to see. Astonishing physicality.
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@victor-meldrew said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I really don't believe Barrett is the issue. I think it lies with who is around him.
Good point. Carter & Cruden had stability outside them - almost always Nonu - plus a firing on all cylinders Aaron Smith,
BB had SBW, Crotty, ALB, Laumape - almost like a revolving door - and a strangely out-of-form Smith
Carter and Cruden are completely different styled 10s to Barrett. Barrett relies on individual brilliance more than Carter and Cruden did.
I always think about what Barrett will be like as a 10 when he loses his pace - it's not a pretty thought.
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@victor-meldrew said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I really don't believe Barrett is the issue. I think it lies with who is around him.
Good point. Carter & Cruden had stability outside them - almost always Nonu - plus a firing on all cylinders Aaron Smith,
BB had SBW, Crotty, ALB, Laumape - almost like a revolving door - and a strangely out-of-form Smith
Carter and Cruden are completely different styled 10s to Barrett. Barrett relies on individual brilliance more than Carter and Cruden did.
I always think about what Barrett will be like as a 10 when he loses his pace - it's not a pretty thought.
Yet today and vs England, I think Barrett played a bit more traditionally. I think hes learnt a few lessons, and just needs to find that balance.
I don't think we were any better or worse with Mounga on today, some say more organised, but its not like Richie was suddenly the most dangerous player on the park.
We did look better at the back however, BB gobbled up any kicks that came his way. -
Great stuff Ireland. Played outstanding rugby and justly got the result. They are the bench mark. For now.
Read is old.
Box kicks suck and just turn over possession.
Ben Smith is the worlds best full back but lets play him on the wing..
Mckenzie is just above Jordie Barrett in suitability to test rugby...near enough isn't good enough.
We seriously miss Cane and Id play both him and Ardie if the former wasnt injured.
Aaron Smith is not currently our best option. And has not been for a while.
Moody's absence is clearly a proplem.
The best midfielder we have didnt come on until 3 1/4s of the game was gone.
And Beuden Barrett is not a player deserving of a world player of the year nod. We were decidedly better organised once Mounga came on.I am not panicking and saying throw the baby out with the bathwater. But Read looks like 2019 might be a bridge too far. He needs one hell of an off season.
We need to stop using the box kick like its a high percentage play. It's fucking not anymore. We are simply giving the ball back to teams who are expecting the box kick now. We do not have a monopoly on aerial kick reception but we put up ineffectual kicks like we think we do.
I can not understand the selection of Mckenzie ahead of Smith other than future proofing. Mckenzie is often out of position on kick reception and he drops them at a fair clip. Mckenzie is an amazing player but he is not better than Smith and on that notion should not be selected ahead of him.
TJ is better suited to NH teams. He is more combative and does not get bullied as much as Smith does when the pack is going backwards. You can say it was a tiring Irish pack when TJ came on, maybe it was, but IMO TJ is edging Smith currently and would have been better for this game.
Savea was the pick of the forwards for me, closely followed by BBBR. But these guys need some help. With Read slowing down , Whitelock looking in similar shape and the second coming of Rueben Thorne we were easily out played by Stander and co. Same vs England. Cane is a huge loss and provided he gets back to full health I think the way forward is Ardie at 8, Cane 7 and Barrett at 6. Barrett is probably a stop gap. Squires shoukd just not be selected though. Hes woefully shit.
Our scrum has either been amazing or rubbish and no real inbetween. Moody being injured is hurting though and the big fulla is finding these NH scrums a bit tougher than the Argies, Wobblies and Boks.
BB is playing too flat footed and not giving any room to his outsides. Hes just so out of sorts as a play maker and yiu could only really see in structure in our play once Mounga came on. Not sure Mounga is ready to take over but he looked more in control than Barrett. Kicking boits are working though...
Biggest problem for me are the coaches selections. Yes they are 100% experimental and geared towards the WC but still frustrating to watch over the last 2 games. ALB is our best attacking midfielder and hes getting sweet fa in time on the field. just hurry the fuck up play goodhue and him fron start to finish.
@raznomore said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I can not understand the selection of Mckenzie ahead of Smith other than future proofing.
DMac should be used as super-sub and as cover for 15/10 until his wrinkles get ironed out. He way too good a player not to be in the 23.
