Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
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@nepia the irish comms were so biased it was crazy. They were calling for a yellow card on the new suitcase's supposedly high tackle which was actually not even a high tackle. Then ignored BBBR getting a shoulder to the chin and called it a good front on tackle. All after us a "very cynical side" calling Irish comms are the worst. Just blatant cheerleading and not anywhere near close to an impartial call.
@raznomore said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@nepia the irish comms were so biased it was crazy. They were calling for a yellow card on the new suitcase's supposedly high tackle which was actually not even a high tackle. Then ignored BBBR getting a shoulder to the chin and called it a good front on tackle. All after us a "very cynical side" calling Irish comms are the worst. Just blatant cheerleading and not anywhere near close to an impartial call.
Yeah, it was so nuts I felt the need to create my first thread since we changed over to the new software (as I'm such a noob that I it took me longer than it should to figure out I needed to pick a section to post it in).
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@nepia the irish comms were so biased it was crazy. They were calling for a yellow card on the new suitcase's supposedly high tackle which was actually not even a high tackle. Then ignored BBBR getting a shoulder to the chin and called it a good front on tackle. All after us a "very cynical side" calling Irish comms are the worst. Just blatant cheerleading and not anywhere near close to an impartial call.
@raznomore said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@nepia the irish comms were so biased it was crazy. They were calling for a yellow card on the new suitcase's supposedly high tackle which was actually not even a high tackle.
Not sure why Squire's getting a hard time over this game. He was a bit anonymous vs England, but in this game he seemed to be pretty busy to me. Plenty of carries in the tight and I'm pretty sure it was him under Stander when the Irish drove over the line. Only blemish was the high tackle penalty.
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@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Is that you Enoka?
I’d love to know when theses so called generations started and ended, because all of them have lost tight games and won tight ones as well.
I'd say the three eras were pretty clear, lining up approximately with the captaincies of Umaga, McCaw and Read. The first group that effected the culture change and restored the meritocracy out of the ashes of the '03 World Cup - most left after 2007 or shortly after. The second group were their replacements many of who were 'complicated' players who blossomed in the new culture/environment many of whom had been discarded at international level previously (Nonu, SBW, Weepu, Kaino, even Thorn). The third generation is essentially the class of 2012.
Because Hansen and Read are still around and Barrett/Smith/Brodie won a RWC with the old guard there is a natural inclination to draw a line between the whole Henry/Hansen era. But the truth is no one in this side has lost a World Cup and Read is the only one who played more than a handful of tests with the World Cup hoodoo hanging over the team. The dark shit that fueled the two RWC wins is gone and we are left with a side of players and coaches who were born on third base and think they hit a triple.
Hansen has often said something along the lines of the team always looking to add to the AB legacy. What has been added since 2016? Historic losses to Ireland and couldn't close out a Lions series.
Forget the RWC. This side needs to start thinking about how they could be the ones to give the Bledisloe back.
@rotated said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
we are left with a side of players and coaches who were born on third base and think they hit a triple.
That's quality fella, love your work
Our attacking game has really struggled the last few weeks. Just have not managed to get going. We could still have won that game if we could hold some of those passes.
Now I've settled down a bit, I'm less frustrated. Ireland are a quality outfit, and hard to beat at home. In fact, all the NH teams (except France) have lifted their game from the last world cup. Basically it's the same message that we should get: don't bitch, just get better. Go away, and get better.
This year has been a mixed bag. We burgled one against SA, and lost one we should have won. We scraped home against England - and I do wonder if the effort from last week drained the tank a bit. That side today looked as flat as any I've seen.
Still, we've won 11/13, with one to go and we think it's a terrible year.
I go back a bit to 2007, and wonder if there is a bit of a plan going on. We were looking at superbly conditioned athletes going into that tournament - and playing it in France in Autumn can mean some hard ,fast, tracks. Despite our loss in that tourney, it felt like our game plan had one eye on the weather.
Oct/Nov in Japan next year will be hottish - probably low 20's - and probably support some open, fast rugby. Here's hoping that the different conditions, and playing these top sides away from their home make mor ethan a 7 poitn difference to us
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Think the better team won.
Only thing I would change is that aaron Smith needs to go. TJP is just better.
Gutting that Ireland stole our move and scored from it.
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@rotated said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
we are left with a side of players and coaches who were born on third base and think they hit a triple.
That's quality fella, love your work
Our attacking game has really struggled the last few weeks. Just have not managed to get going. We could still have won that game if we could hold some of those passes.
Now I've settled down a bit, I'm less frustrated. Ireland are a quality outfit, and hard to beat at home. In fact, all the NH teams (except France) have lifted their game from the last world cup. Basically it's the same message that we should get: don't bitch, just get better. Go away, and get better.
This year has been a mixed bag. We burgled one against SA, and lost one we should have won. We scraped home against England - and I do wonder if the effort from last week drained the tank a bit. That side today looked as flat as any I've seen.
Still, we've won 11/13, with one to go and we think it's a terrible year.
I go back a bit to 2007, and wonder if there is a bit of a plan going on. We were looking at superbly conditioned athletes going into that tournament - and playing it in France in Autumn can mean some hard ,fast, tracks. Despite our loss in that tourney, it felt like our game plan had one eye on the weather.
Oct/Nov in Japan next year will be hottish - probably low 20's - and probably support some open, fast rugby. Here's hoping that the different conditions, and playing these top sides away from their home make mor ethan a 7 poitn difference to us
@nzzp I agree they are trying new things, we have drifted from what made us 'great' but to keep trying the same 'innovative' things over and over when it is ineffective and not changing up was the dumb part, probably being a bit too cute and expecting the Irish to roll over.
Ireland played well, and played smart, we didnt play well, but we were dumb too, not ideal combination when you opposition isnt giving you much to deal with.
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@steven-harris said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Outplayed and out coached by the Irish on the day,no real complaints from me.
Not the end of the world, but I have seen plenty of evidence to suggest signs of staleness within this coaching group.No question it was a points decision to Joe Schmidt after this mornings match and that what’s worrying me
We have the players,but is this coaching group getting the best of out of this group..?I guess it all depends on if you believe Hansen, that we're trying new things and they're taking time to bed in (along with the powder dry theory) or if this is currently all we've got and the best we can hope for is a few players freshening up and some marginal improvements from the likes of Moody and Cane coming back (seemed like Ireland were missing more key players than us?).
Really we could easily have lost four games this year and something that seems to have changed in recent weeks (since the loss to SA) is that we've been kicking the ball a lot more. Understandable in the wet against England, but it hasn't worked for us.
What might prove to be a bit of a mistake is is Hansen's sticking too rigidly to his idea that you don't lose your place through injury. I'm inclined to think George Bridge should have been picked for TRC instead of NMS and maybe we would have discovered that our best back three is Ioane, Bridge and Smith. (Since Squire is apparently broken, I'd put him on a plane home and replace him with Bridge - and play George).
Other one is SBW. They've tried playing him into form when maybe he should have been sent to M10 Cup and Laumape been given a chance. Today's backline configuration seems to lack a really big munter who can punch holes in the line. Which is why I can see why they've been keen to retain SBW, but maybe they should have backed Laumape.
All in all, we seem to have quite a few problems in the backs. We also have some potential solutions, but those solutions are green as grass and I'm pretty convinced Hansen will stick with experience unless his hand is forced through injury.
In the forwards, I'd like to think it's just a matter of fine-tuning, freshening up and bringing back a few key players. We won the lineouts today, bounced back in the scrums and it wasn't the forwards (very often) who wastefully kicked possession away and forced us to defend for most of the first 60 minutes.
@chris-b hoping you are right,and I hate to state the obvious,these end of season tours wether it’s the North heading South in July or us heading up to the their autumn..how full are the tanks both mentally and physically for both parties...?..
Several looked flat today,I would have gone for pace in the loose and started both Ardie and Todd -
@steven-harris said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Outplayed and out coached by the Irish on the day,no real complaints from me.
Not the end of the world, but I have seen plenty of evidence to suggest signs of staleness within this coaching group.No question it was a points decision to Joe Schmidt after this mornings match and that what’s worrying me
We have the players,but is this coaching group getting the best of out of this group..?I guess it all depends on if you believe Hansen, that we're trying new things and they're taking time to bed in (along with the powder dry theory) or if this is currently all we've got and the best we can hope for is a few players freshening up and some marginal improvements from the likes of Moody and Cane coming back (seemed like Ireland were missing more key players than us?).
Really we could easily have lost four games this year and something that seems to have changed in recent weeks (since the loss to SA) is that we've been kicking the ball a lot more. Understandable in the wet against England, but it hasn't worked for us.
What might prove to be a bit of a mistake is is Hansen's sticking too rigidly to his idea that you don't lose your place through injury. I'm inclined to think George Bridge should have been picked for TRC instead of NMS and maybe we would have discovered that our best back three is Ioane, Bridge and Smith. (Since Squire is apparently broken, I'd put him on a plane home and replace him with Bridge - and play George).
Other one is SBW. They've tried playing him into form when maybe he should have been sent to M10 Cup and Laumape been given a chance. Today's backline configuration seems to lack a really big munter who can punch holes in the line. Which is why I can see why they've been keen to retain SBW, but maybe they should have backed Laumape.
All in all, we seem to have quite a few problems in the backs. We also have some potential solutions, but those solutions are green as grass and I'm pretty convinced Hansen will stick with experience unless his hand is forced through injury.
In the forwards, I'd like to think it's just a matter of fine-tuning, freshening up and bringing back a few key players. We won the lineouts today, bounced back in the scrums and it wasn't the forwards (very often) who wastefully kicked possession away and forced us to defend for most of the first 60 minutes.
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@chris-b hoping you are right,and I hate to state the obvious,these end of season tours wether it’s the North heading South in July or us heading up to the their autumn..how full are the tanks both mentally and physically for both parties...?..
Several looked flat today,I would have gone for pace in the loose and started both Ardie and Todd@steven-harris I think without a doubt the EOSTs are tough on the travelling teams. Reading about Sam Whitelock's injury problems earlier this week - no wonder he's not looked his usual self.
Also I'm thinking Beauden's probably pretty mentally fatigued. Who else has played big minutes this season - Codie Taylor, Aaron Smith, Reiko Ioane - probably Ben Smith.
Some of the others have had truncated seasons due to injury, but even then, maybe they're just not quite as hungry as they need to be.
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@steven-harris I think without a doubt the EOSTs are tough on the travelling teams. Reading about Sam Whitelock's injury problems earlier this week - no wonder he's not looked his usual self.
Also I'm thinking Beauden's probably pretty mentally fatigued. Who else has played big minutes this season - Codie Taylor, Aaron Smith, Reiko Ioane - probably Ben Smith.
Some of the others have had truncated seasons due to injury, but even then, maybe they're just not quite as hungry as they need to be.
@chris-b suspect both are banged up,even Read took a knock just before halftime..quite frankly I would not play any of them against Italy especially if they are carrying injuries ..
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@chris-b Agreed on carrying frequently injured players. Add Squire to that list.
Hansen is a pretty arrogant coach, who has proven unwilling to tailor selections to the opposition, or to put results before loyalty.
@tim said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@chris-b Agreed on carrying frequently injured players. Add Squire to that list.
Hansen is a pretty arrogant coach, who has proven unwilling to tailor selections to the opposition, or to put results before loyalty.
Yes, well, I'm still mystified as to why Joe Moody needed to get those warm-up minutes in that semi-final, but Liam Squire didn't.
Bad news for Blues fans - Hansen doesn't answer his phone when Leon calls!
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ABs complacent, and only got serious in last 20 or so. Trying things, and not playing to win.
Suspect the result would have been different if this was the RWC final.
That said, hard to feel comfortable about our 9 -10 axis. We seem to be vulnerable if plan A doesn't work.
Hope Shag really rubs it in tonight.
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@chris-b Agreed on carrying frequently injured players. Add Squire to that list.
Hansen is a pretty arrogant coach, who has proven unwilling to tailor selections to the opposition, or to put results before loyalty.
@tim TBH I think while Shag is part of the problem, I think it's his 'team' that just isnt up to it anymore, but this is where Shag as top dog needs to sort shit.
There have always been question marks over Foster, although I think the presence of Wayne SMith papered over some of his definciencies.
Seems today, we had 1 game plan, and refused to deviate.
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Some things that we are doing is puzzling to me.
For instance, it seems strange as to why we are not employing a rush defence when all the top teams are doing it. It's not like our current D is so great anyway. Ireland pretty much won that game on the back of their rush defence. Am sure they wouldn't have made the easy metres in the 1st half either if we had been in their faces.
I have always had a lot of confidence in the coaching team but that's gone this year. Worrying times.
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The squad has passengers like Franks , A Smith, SBW, and NMS. These guys are average repeatedly, and yet other up and comers aren't being given an opportunity.
I know McCaw was a once in a lifetime player, but where we miss him more is captaincy. His head was so cool it was Arctic. You think Smith and co would be fucking about with box kicks every two mins with Richie in charge? Or players acting like headless chooks? Read was once a great player, but his legs look tired, and he's not a great captain under pressure at all. The ABs lacked direction today, like each of them was waiting for someone else to do the brilliant thing that would snatch the win. And nobody did. Ireland beat us up in the forwards, and forced us onto the back foot for most of the game. Our backline had no structure. it wasn't pretty. Meh.
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@steven-harris said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Outplayed and out coached by the Irish on the day,no real complaints from me.
Not the end of the world, but I have seen plenty of evidence to suggest signs of staleness within this coaching group.No question it was a points decision to Joe Schmidt after this mornings match and that what’s worrying me
We have the players,but is this coaching group getting the best of out of this group..?I guess it all depends on if you believe Hansen, that we're trying new things and they're taking time to bed in (along with the powder dry theory) or if this is currently all we've got and the best we can hope for is a few players freshening up and some marginal improvements from the likes of Moody and Cane coming back (seemed like Ireland were missing more key players than us?).
Really we could easily have lost four games this year and something that seems to have changed in recent weeks (since the loss to SA) is that we've been kicking the ball a lot more. Understandable in the wet against England, but it hasn't worked for us.
What might prove to be a bit of a mistake is is Hansen's sticking too rigidly to his idea that you don't lose your place through injury. I'm inclined to think George Bridge should have been picked for TRC instead of NMS and maybe we would have discovered that our best back three is Ioane, Bridge and Smith. (Since Squire is apparently broken, I'd put him on a plane home and replace him with Bridge - and play George).
Other one is SBW. They've tried playing him into form when maybe he should have been sent to M10 Cup and Laumape been given a chance. Today's backline configuration seems to lack a really big munter who can punch holes in the line. Which is why I can see why they've been keen to retain SBW, but maybe they should have backed Laumape.
All in all, we seem to have quite a few problems in the backs. We also have some potential solutions, but those solutions are green as grass and I'm pretty convinced Hansen will stick with experience unless his hand is forced through injury.
In the forwards, I'd like to think it's just a matter of fine-tuning, freshening up and bringing back a few key players. We won the lineouts today, bounced back in the scrums and it wasn't the forwards (very often) who wastefully kicked possession away and forced us to defend for most of the first 60 minutes.
@chris-b actually I think both forwards and backs were crap. But much harder to be good in backs if forwards not going forward. Issues with forwards - those first half penalties were primarily them and some just very poor from senior players, we didn’t win contact ( poor ) or tackle ball, two penalties in first half at scrum time when we were dominated.
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@chris-b actually I think both forwards and backs were crap. But much harder to be good in backs if forwards not going forward. Issues with forwards - those first half penalties were primarily them and some just very poor from senior players, we didn’t win contact ( poor ) or tackle ball, two penalties in first half at scrum time when we were dominated.
@kev Yeah - they got dominated for 60 minutes today, but generally I think they're a pretty solid pack. I don't have too many concerns that when we need a big effort from them at the RWC that we will get it.
I think there's a few more fundamental issues in the backs, right now.
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Was a good game of rugby to watch. Loved seeing the ABs under huge pressure two weeks in a row. Just an English foot away from being a complete horror of EOY tour.
Thought Ardie and Scott Barret were the pick of the forwards while the midfield defended strongly. We really need a plan b when plan a (Bbbr) doesn't play well.
Beaudy continues to struggle but I didn't think RM looked much better. Just played a different game that Ireland took in their stride. Heaps of flat and short passes but they never seemed like scoring.
