Italy vs All Blacks

pukunui

The good stuff:

Jordie on the wing, thought he looked good there. Not just because it was Italy too. Showed good pace and aerial skills. Probably doesn't have the same pressure to pull things off on the wing as Fullback. Good to have another option for that tight wing spot.
Coles looking like he used to was great to see.

The bad stuff:

the obsession with kicking the ball away continues. Even worse is they scored off it several times so will think it works now. Im starting to think the only powder they had in this tour was the kicking powder. Maybe the rest of it got lost at heathrow.
Naholo, who was anonymous

The question marks:

Fifita, looked good. But we already knew he could run rampant against second tier teams. Papalii didn't really get enough time to make any judgements.
Midfield, borh guys went well. First choice pair in no clearer though.
Dmac, he scored 3 tries but is still a massive question mark for me. So often his team mates look as confused about what he is doing as the opposition. Still loves to run across field like Lote Tuqiri. Unfortunately they subbed BB so we didn't get a look the Mounga/BB combo.

Bovidae

@pukunui said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Unfortunately they subbed BB so we didn't get a look the Mounga/BB combo.

We've seen this combo in the last 3 tests so what was to be gained by doing it again? I thought it was great that BB was the player subbed so different combinations could be looked at.

mariner4life

Sorry @pukunui but that's just bullshit about DMac, in this game and the whole tour. It's preconception not reality

mariner4life

I've been a champion for mo'unga but i thought in this game he overplayed his hand, tried to make things happen every time he got the ball

pukunui

@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Sorry @pukunui but that's just bullshit about DMac, in this game and the whole tour. It's preconception not reality

Meh, just my opinion vs yours. I much prefer the cool, calm and collected style of Ben Smith at fullback. You know, Ben Smith, the best fullback in the world.
For me Dmac is better suited to the super sub role.

mariner4life

@pukunui said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Sorry @pukunui but that's just bullshit about DMac, in this game and the whole tour. It's preconception not reality

Meh, just my opinion vs yours. I much prefer the cool, calm and collected style of Ben Smith at fullback. You know, Ben Smith, the best fullback in the world.
For me Dmac is better suited to the super sub role.

That's not what you said though is it?

pukunui

@bovidae said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@pukunui said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Unfortunately they subbed BB so we didn't get a look the Mounga/BB combo.

We've seen this combo in the last 3 tests so what was to be gained by doing it again? I thought it was great that BB was the player subbed so different combinations could be looked at.

Building the combination? That combo has had very few minutes together. It could be a very important one next year and time to build it is running out.

pukunui

@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@pukunui said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Sorry @pukunui but that's just bullshit about DMac, in this game and the whole tour. It's preconception not reality

Meh, just my opinion vs yours. I much prefer the cool, calm and collected style of Ben Smith at fullback. You know, Ben Smith, the best fullback in the world.
For me Dmac is better suited to the super sub role.

That's not what you said though is it?

I said he is a massive question mark FOR ME. A massive question mark in the role they seem to be playing him in, which is starting fullback. You just read it as an attack and jumped to his defence.

mariner4life

@pukunui said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@pukunui said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Sorry @pukunui but that's just bullshit about DMac, in this game and the whole tour. It's preconception not reality

Meh, just my opinion vs yours. I much prefer the cool, calm and collected style of Ben Smith at fullback. You know, Ben Smith, the best fullback in the world.
For me Dmac is better suited to the super sub role.

That's not what you said though is it?

I said he is a massive question mark FOR ME. A massive question mark in the role they seem to be playing him in, which is starting fullback. You just read it as an attack and jumped to his defence.

I think it deserves defense when he has been arguably our best player on tour, and you're still trotting out 2017 cliches about team mates standing around wondering what he is going to do next.

After this tour i am happier with DMac 15 and B Smith at 14, than B Smith at 15 and ? at 14

pukunui

@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@pukunui said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@pukunui said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Sorry @pukunui but that's just bullshit about DMac, in this game and the whole tour. It's preconception not reality

Meh, just my opinion vs yours. I much prefer the cool, calm and collected style of Ben Smith at fullback. You know, Ben Smith, the best fullback in the world.
For me Dmac is better suited to the super sub role.

That's not what you said though is it?

I said he is a massive question mark FOR ME. A massive question mark in the role they seem to be playing him in, which is starting fullback. You just read it as an attack and jumped to his defence.

I think it deserves defense when he has been arguably our best player on tour, and you're still trotting out 2017 cliches about team mates standing around wondering what he is going to do next.

After this tour i am happier with DMac 15 and B Smith at 14, than B Smith at 15 and ? at 14

I would agree that he has been better this year than last and I would have him in the 23 definitely.
However i don't see that he has eliminated those aspects enough to be the confirmed starting 15 at this stage.
He still runs sideways and still has guys around him not knowing where to put themselves to support. He is also not afraid to take a high risk option. You call it cliches, I call it observations.

And i agree that Dmac 15, B Smith 14 might end up the best combination. However i don't think it is ideal and it may well change before the rwc. Hence the question mark.

Gunner

Don’t get the hate for Naholo.
He’s not first choice, but he’s a handy back up. I though he was ok today. The game didn’t really go his way but he went looking for work.

Dane, how I have missed you and your wide running game.

Loved seeing Fifita bumping blokes off and making a few dominant tackles, good to know he can get amongst the physical stuff as well as run around blokes.

Loving our propping depth right now.

Laumape simply must be Goodhue’s midfield partner next year, with ALB on the bench. As good as they’ve been, it’s time to ship the other two blokes off to the retirement village.

DMac, great tour.

Bovidae

@pukunui said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Building the combination? That combo has had very few minutes together. It could be a very important one next year and time to build it is running out.

It's actually more games than I had thought:
vs SA 29 mins
vs Arg 21 mins
vs Aust 12 mins
vs England 17 mins
vs Ireland 24 mins

Mo'unga and DMac before the Italian test = 0 mins

The coaches should be looking at all combinations because you never know when an injury can occur.

And for the record, I've always been in the BFA at fullback camp but I can understand why they want him on the right wing. One of the most important reasons is that he is the best AB at challenging high kicks which is easier to do from the wing as the fullback is often putting the high kicks up. For the Highlanders Sopoaga would have to drop back to do that as a second fullback.

Bovidae

@gunner said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Don’t get the hate for Naholo.
He’s not first choice, but he’s a handy back up. I though he was ok today. The game didn’t really go his way but he went looking for work.

Agree with that assessment. The other thing is that if Ioane didn't play Naholo is the best option as the power winger.

Loved seeing Fifita bumping blokes off and making a few dominant tackles, good to know he can get amongst the physical stuff as well as run around blokes.

Fifita played much tighter than we all expected and did more of the hard work he says he doesn't enjoy. His runs were up the middle not on the flanks.

booboo

@pukunui said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@pukunui said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@pukunui said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Sorry @pukunui but that's just bullshit about DMac, in this game and the whole tour. It's preconception not reality

Meh, just my opinion vs yours. I much prefer the cool, calm and collected style of Ben Smith at fullback. You know, Ben Smith, the best fullback in the world.
For me Dmac is better suited to the super sub role.

That's not what you said though is it?

I said he is a massive question mark FOR ME. A massive question mark in the role they seem to be playing him in, which is starting fullback. You just read it as an attack and jumped to his defence.

I think it deserves defense when he has been arguably our best player on tour, and you're still trotting out 2017 cliches about team mates standing around wondering what he is going to do next.

After this tour i am happier with DMac 15 and B Smith at 14, than B Smith at 15 and ? at 14

I would agree that he has been better this year than last and I would have him in the 23 definitely.
However i don't see that he has eliminated those aspects enough to be the confirmed starting 15 at this stage.
He still runs sideways and still has guys around him not knowing where to put themselves to support. He is also not afraid to take a high risk option. You call it cliches, I call it observations.

And i agree that Dmac 15, B Smith 14 might end up the best combination. However i don't think it is ideal and it may well change before the rwc. Hence the question mark.

Last night when he didn't run straight he was running into gaps ... his team matea seemed to know exactly what he was doing

cgrant

Is Owen Franks still the best THP in NZ ?
From what I have seen this year's competitions and EOYT, Laulala, Tu'ungafasi and Ta'avao look better.

ACT Crusader

@cgrant said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Is Owen Franks still the best THP in NZ ?
From what I have seen this year's competitions and EOYT, Laulala, Tu'ungafasi and Ta'avao look better.

Is Dan Carter still the best 1st 5?
Is McCaw still the best openside?
Is Woodcock past it?

booboo

@act-crusader said in Italy vs All Blacks:

@cgrant said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Is Owen Franks still the best THP in NZ ?
From what I have seen this year's competitions and EOYT, Laulala, Tu'ungafasi and Ta'avao look better.

Is Dan Carter still the best 1st 5? No
Is McCaw still the best openside? No
Is Woodcock past it? Yes

Just in case these were serious questions ...

ACT Crusader

@booboo I don’t know if they were serious questions, but they were questions we heard going into previous World Cup campaigns and all of them played their role in delivering the goods.

Franks will be there.

pakman

@cgrant said in Italy vs All Blacks:

Is Owen Franks still the best THP in NZ ?
From what I have seen this year's competitions and EOYT, Laulala, Tu'ungafasi and Ta'avao look better.

If referring to scrummaging, the answer is yes. Laulala also world class there.

Ofa an excellent all round prop, but not a top drawer starter. Angus developing well, and along with Hames (fitness permitting) will be in back ups for RWC.

For me, Ofa, Moody and Karl T our best ball carrying props.

antipodean

I noticed Laulala dropped off a number of tackles against Italy.

The Silver Fern

Italy vs All Blacks