Black Caps v India
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@Damo said in Black Caps v India:
Bracewell is the key now.
So long as the remaining batsmen can support him we're still a chance.
We are reliant on Guppy, Kane and Rosco going big against quality opposition. They've all failed two games in a row now.
That's been the fundamental problem. Kane and Rossco got themselves out to a certain extent today - well, Rossco was a bit sloppy.
Guptill looked almost like he was trying to get himself out - woefully out of form.
Those three guys in particular have not done themselves close to justice, so far.
@Mokey is right about trying to play both de Grandhomme and Munro. They're both sort of "gambit" batsmen. Sloggers who will come off occasionally and virtually win the game with strike rate - but, they'll both fail (together) more often than not.
It's pretty questionable whether either should be in ODI eleven and Neesham and Bracewell look to me to be pushing CdG out - possibly out of the WC squad.
BUT, I'd be somewhat inclined to send Guptill away to get an innings in domestic cricket for the next game and open with Latham and Munro.
@Chris-B coming out of the Sri Lanka series, wasn't everyone "in-form"?
after two games, we're out of form?
we're getting exposed.Bowlers...at the moment only Fergusson and Boult should be locked in. We need wicket takers. The way ODIs have gone, wickets keep run rates down. Dibbly dobblies don't cut it.
So Southee is out, CDG = no threat
What ever happened to Mitch McClenaghan? he was a wicket taking monster for a season there.
I'm glad we picked Sodhi, he feels like a wicket-taker - at least he wasn't expensive in the scheme of things.
Bracewell I'd consider as a bowler who can bat, but then thats Neesham also.
Santner is the same, doesn't ever seem like he'll take wickets.
I wish we'd given Ajaz a go.
Could Milne come back in?Batting? Guptill, Williamson, Taylor & Latham would be locked in. Maybe Nicholls too. Right now I'd try Devcich once more, at least he can bowl too. And spin in England is apparently important.
Munro needs to score some Biiiiiiiiig 50's from here on to convince me.But geez hats off to India, they're looking strong eh?
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@Chris-B coming out of the Sri Lanka series, wasn't everyone "in-form"?
after two games, we're out of form?
we're getting exposed.Bowlers...at the moment only Fergusson and Boult should be locked in. We need wicket takers. The way ODIs have gone, wickets keep run rates down. Dibbly dobblies don't cut it.
So Southee is out, CDG = no threat
What ever happened to Mitch McClenaghan? he was a wicket taking monster for a season there.
I'm glad we picked Sodhi, he feels like a wicket-taker - at least he wasn't expensive in the scheme of things.
Bracewell I'd consider as a bowler who can bat, but then thats Neesham also.
Santner is the same, doesn't ever seem like he'll take wickets.
I wish we'd given Ajaz a go.
Could Milne come back in?Batting? Guptill, Williamson, Taylor & Latham would be locked in. Maybe Nicholls too. Right now I'd try Devcich once more, at least he can bowl too. And spin in England is apparently important.
Munro needs to score some Biiiiiiiiig 50's from here on to convince me.But geez hats off to India, they're looking strong eh?
@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
@Chris-B coming out of the Sri Lanka series, wasn't everyone "in-form"?
after two games, we're out of form?
we're getting exposed.Bowlers...at the moment only Fergusson and Boult should be locked in. We need wicket takers. The way ODIs have gone, wickets keep run rates down. Dibbly dobblies don't cut it.
So Southee is out, CDG = no threat
What ever happened to Mitch McClenaghan? he was a wicket taking monster for a season there.
I'm glad we picked Sodhi, he feels like a wicket-taker - at least he wasn't expensive in the scheme of things.
Bracewell I'd consider as a bowler who can bat, but then thats Neesham also.
Santner is the same, doesn't ever seem like he'll take wickets.
I wish we'd given Ajaz a go.
Could Milne come back in?Batting? Guptill, Williamson, Taylor & Latham would be locked in. Maybe Nicholls too. Right now I'd try Devcich once more, at least he can bowl too. And spin in England is apparently important.
Munro needs to score some Biiiiiiiiig 50's from here on to convince me.But geez hats off to India, they're looking strong eh?
McClenaghan basically turned his back on NZ to trundle around T20 comps. I think he was getting to be out of favour anyway. Don't think he would have made a difference today.
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@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
@Chris-B coming out of the Sri Lanka series, wasn't everyone "in-form"?
after two games, we're out of form?
we're getting exposed.Bowlers...at the moment only Fergusson and Boult should be locked in. We need wicket takers. The way ODIs have gone, wickets keep run rates down. Dibbly dobblies don't cut it.
So Southee is out, CDG = no threat
What ever happened to Mitch McClenaghan? he was a wicket taking monster for a season there.
I'm glad we picked Sodhi, he feels like a wicket-taker - at least he wasn't expensive in the scheme of things.
Bracewell I'd consider as a bowler who can bat, but then thats Neesham also.
Santner is the same, doesn't ever seem like he'll take wickets.
I wish we'd given Ajaz a go.
Could Milne come back in?Batting? Guptill, Williamson, Taylor & Latham would be locked in. Maybe Nicholls too. Right now I'd try Devcich once more, at least he can bowl too. And spin in England is apparently important.
Munro needs to score some Biiiiiiiiig 50's from here on to convince me.But geez hats off to India, they're looking strong eh?
McClenaghan basically turned his back on NZ to trundle around T20 comps. I think he was getting to be out of favour anyway. Don't think he would have made a difference today.
@hydro11 nah probably not, but he seems to have disappeared from the scene completely. Cricinfo said he has an average in the mid-20s for bowling. We need that.
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[cut] Surely we’re keeping our powder dry for the World Cup later this year [/paste]
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That's the series over, now it's about testing combinations and fringe players for the CWC.
Like to see a Guptill/Latham opening pair for the next 2 games (see if Tommy can handle wicketkeeping and opening) and Guptill/Nicholls for the last one. Give Munro a chance in the lower order as well at 6/7 where he's better suited.
Bracewell appears to have taken the bowling allrounder spot from CdG in the squad.
Is George Worker injured? If not he should be given a chance, as should Scott K.
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@Chris-B coming out of the Sri Lanka series, wasn't everyone "in-form"?
after two games, we're out of form?
we're getting exposed.Bowlers...at the moment only Fergusson and Boult should be locked in. We need wicket takers. The way ODIs have gone, wickets keep run rates down. Dibbly dobblies don't cut it.
So Southee is out, CDG = no threat
What ever happened to Mitch McClenaghan? he was a wicket taking monster for a season there.
I'm glad we picked Sodhi, he feels like a wicket-taker - at least he wasn't expensive in the scheme of things.
Bracewell I'd consider as a bowler who can bat, but then thats Neesham also.
Santner is the same, doesn't ever seem like he'll take wickets.
I wish we'd given Ajaz a go.
Could Milne come back in?Batting? Guptill, Williamson, Taylor & Latham would be locked in. Maybe Nicholls too. Right now I'd try Devcich once more, at least he can bowl too. And spin in England is apparently important.
Munro needs to score some Biiiiiiiiig 50's from here on to convince me.But geez hats off to India, they're looking strong eh?
@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
@Chris-B coming out of the Sri Lanka series, wasn't everyone "in-form"?
after two games, we're out of form?
we're getting exposed.Guptill is the only one who is not in form - he should have been after that 138, but he followed up with 13, 2 and 1 vs Sri Lanka. In his two brief innings vs India he could have been out seven or eight times.
To be honest, I'm not that worried about most of the batsmen - Kane, Rossco, Latham, Nicholls - they can all bat and on another day might collectively have made enough runs to win that game - especially if they'd got decent help from the top order. Munro is what he is - Guptill is the one who concerns me for this series.
The bowling is of much greater concern - Boult is our only genuinely good bowler and even he is not particularly good at the death by international standards. Ferguson is improving and developing variations, but he's not accurate enough and I suspect likely to become pretty wild if he gets taken to. Southee, Henry, Bracewell all pretty hittable. CdG is cannon-fodder unless it is nipping about.
I think we'll do better if the pitches in England suit playing two spinners, though pretty clearly Ish and Santner aren't in the same class as the frontline Indian spinners.
Don't think this team is as strong as our 2015 CWC team, with BMac, Vettori, Elliott, Milne and even the lower order threat of Ronchi.
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@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
@Chris-B coming out of the Sri Lanka series, wasn't everyone "in-form"?
after two games, we're out of form?
we're getting exposed.Guptill is the only one who is not in form - he should have been after that 138, but he followed up with 13, 2 and 1 vs Sri Lanka. In his two brief innings vs India he could have been out seven or eight times.
To be honest, I'm not that worried about most of the batsmen - Kane, Rossco, Latham, Nicholls - they can all bat and on another day might collectively have made enough runs to win that game - especially if they'd got decent help from the top order. Munro is what he is - Guptill is the one who concerns me for this series.
The bowling is of much greater concern - Boult is our only genuinely good bowler and even he is not particularly good at the death by international standards. Ferguson is improving and developing variations, but he's not accurate enough and I suspect likely to become pretty wild if he gets taken to. Southee, Henry, Bracewell all pretty hittable. CdG is cannon-fodder unless it is nipping about.
I think we'll do better if the pitches in England suit playing two spinners, though pretty clearly Ish and Santner aren't in the same class as the frontline Indian spinners.
Don't think this team is as strong as our 2015 CWC team, with BMac, Vettori, Elliott, Milne and even the lower order threat of Ronchi.
@Chris-B fingers x'd we get Milne back I'd say - extra pace does help.
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I thought Milne has slowed down to mid to late thirties in an attempt to beat the injuries?
Milne is one of those players that get better the less he plays. Can't believe the number of people talking him up for the squad based on what? Playing one game every two seasons?
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I thought Milne has slowed down to mid to late thirties in an attempt to beat the injuries?
Milne is one of those players that get better the less he plays. Can't believe the number of people talking him up for the squad based on what? Playing one game every two seasons?
@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v India:
I thought Milne has slowed down to mid to late thirties in an attempt to beat the injuries?
Milne is one of those players that get better the less he plays. Can't believe the number of people talking him up for the squad based on what? Playing one game every two seasons?
Crickets Charlie Ngatai?
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@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
geezus that round arm Indian bowler just doesn't seem right.
How long before ICC mandates the arm must be no more than 30deg to the verticalThey won’t, because India.
@Gunner So Thompson can be roundarm, at pace. And its not a problem. So can Malinga.
But a spinner does it, and suddenly somehow its not kosher.
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@Gunner So Thompson can be roundarm, at pace. And its not a problem. So can Malinga.
But a spinner does it, and suddenly somehow its not kosher.
@newsjunkie I didn;t think Malinga was kosher, and don't think Yadav is. A simple rule like the ball must be released above the head would help. How low does the release point have to be before its at odds with the spirit of bowling?
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oh thats completely bullshit
lights going off aren't out. his toe would've been down. and what the fuck happened to benefit of the doubt not a single person in the world can 100% say thats out@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
oh thats completely bullshit
lights going off aren't out. his toe would've been down. and what the fuck happened to benefit of the doubt not a single person in the world can 100% say thats outYep. Just because in the first frame when he absolutely does have his toe squished into the turf the lights were on, doesn't 100% mean thta in the previous frame when the lights were on that his toe wasn't touching the turf. There's no way anyone can definitively see a gap in between.
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@Gunner So Thompson can be roundarm, at pace. And its not a problem. So can Malinga.
But a spinner does it, and suddenly somehow its not kosher.
@newsjunkie said in Black Caps v India:
@Gunner So Thompson can be roundarm, at pace. And its not a problem. So can Malinga.
But a spinner does it, and suddenly somehow its not kosher.
I don’t recall saying I had a problem with it..????
I’m all for something different.
You may be referring to me saying the ICC won’t look into it because it’s India... which was a nod towards who calls the shots in cricket, nothing else.
And who is Thompson?
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@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
oh thats completely bullshit
lights going off aren't out. his toe would've been down. and what the fuck happened to benefit of the doubt not a single person in the world can 100% say thats outYep. Just because in the first frame when he absolutely does have his toe squished into the turf the lights were on, doesn't 100% mean thta in the previous frame when the lights were on that his toe wasn't touching the turf. There's no way anyone can definitively see a gap in between.
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
oh thats completely bullshit
lights going off aren't out. his toe would've been down. and what the fuck happened to benefit of the doubt not a single person in the world can 100% say thats outYep. Just because in the first frame when he absolutely does have his toe squished into the turf the lights were on, doesn't 100% mean thta in the previous frame when the lights were on that his toe wasn't touching the turf. There's no way anyone can definitively see a gap in between.
@shark @westcoastie looked pretty out to me
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@newsjunkie I didn;t think Malinga was kosher, and don't think Yadav is. A simple rule like the ball must be released above the head would help. How low does the release point have to be before its at odds with the spirit of bowling?
@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
@newsjunkie I didn;t think Malinga was kosher, and don't think Yadav is. A simple rule like the ball must be released above the head would help. How low does the release point have to be before its at odds with the spirit of bowling?
When cricket was first invented, the bowling was underarm.
As batsmen got better the bowlers sought an edge by bowling roundarm (or sidearm - arm @ 90 degrees to body). Lots of controversy, but eventually it was legalized.
Next stage was overarm - again it was highly controversial, before being legalized.
More recently, strictures on keeping your arm straight have been loosened and underarm bowling has been banned. Evolution I supposed.
Jadhav's the roundarm guy - he's fine - completely legal and adds interest IMO.
Thomson I expect is Jeff.
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@shark said in Black Caps v India:
@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
oh thats completely bullshit
lights going off aren't out. his toe would've been down. and what the fuck happened to benefit of the doubt not a single person in the world can 100% say thats outYep. Just because in the first frame when he absolutely does have his toe squished into the turf the lights were on, doesn't 100% mean thta in the previous frame when the lights were on that his toe wasn't touching the turf. There's no way anyone can definitively see a gap in between.
@shark @westcoastie looked pretty out to me
@booboo said in Black Caps v India:
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
oh thats completely bullshit
lights going off aren't out. his toe would've been down. and what the fuck happened to benefit of the doubt not a single person in the world can 100% say thats outYep. Just because in the first frame when he absolutely does have his toe squished into the turf the lights were on, doesn't 100% mean thta in the previous frame when the lights were on that his toe wasn't touching the turf. There's no way anyone can definitively see a gap in between.
@shark @westcoastie looked pretty out to me
So you could see a gap between Taylors' toe and the turf?
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@booboo said in Black Caps v India:
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
oh thats completely bullshit
lights going off aren't out. his toe would've been down. and what the fuck happened to benefit of the doubt not a single person in the world can 100% say thats outYep. Just because in the first frame when he absolutely does have his toe squished into the turf the lights were on, doesn't 100% mean thta in the previous frame when the lights were on that his toe wasn't touching the turf. There's no way anyone can definitively see a gap in between.
@shark @westcoastie looked pretty out to me
So you could see a gap between Taylors' toe and the turf?
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
@booboo said in Black Caps v India:
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
@westcoastie said in Black Caps v India:
oh thats completely bullshit
lights going off aren't out. his toe would've been down. and what the fuck happened to benefit of the doubt not a single person in the world can 100% say thats outYep. Just because in the first frame when he absolutely does have his toe squished into the turf the lights were on, doesn't 100% mean thta in the previous frame when the lights were on that his toe wasn't touching the turf. There's no way anyone can definitively see a gap in between.
@shark @westcoastie looked pretty out to me
So you could see a gap between Taylors' toe and the turf?
As desparately as I tried not to, yes.
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I see where you're going with this so I looked up the laws and it appears I may be less right ...
29.1 Wicket put down
29.1.1 The wicket is put down if a bail is completely removed from the top of the stumps, or a stump is struck out of the ground,
...
29.1.2 The disturbance of a bail, whether temporary or not, shall not constitute its complete removal from the top of the stumps, but if a bail in falling lodges between two of the stumps this shall be regarded as complete removal.
(My bolding)
