Black Caps v India
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@canefan said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.
The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.
I'd still go Michael Bevan but I get your point.
I'm so fucked off my boy the Neesh is injured yet again.
Bevan is the other name that springs to mind but he didn't have the same destructive hitting power that Dhoni has. They're almost a different era though, I don't think Bevan would be as effective today where batsmen are expected to hit their teams up to 350+ with 6 after 6.
I recall him being great between the wickets and very good at keeping the runs ticking over. Different game then as you say
i think what gets overlooked is Dhoni between the wickets, he's way quicker than a solidly-built 37 year old has any reason to be. Watch Tuesday night's chase for an example of ones turned in to twos that turned a tricky chase into a pretty easy one despite the boundaries not flowing.
@mariner4life that was such a masterful chase. So calm. And it worked. Even the last bat knew the script.
Watching this (and the ABs) live your reminded how fucken good they are in the flesh. TV casts a production type performance for the viewer, viewing angles are pretty standard so its easy to overlook the significance of a few moments or the physics of the skill execution.
They made it look like chasing 250, and most of the way I thought that Oz would win. Nup. Quality team, hope we do fucken well against them
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Must say this upcoming series has me nervously excited or excitedly nervous.
It's a great indicator of how good we actually are, or how we're tracking.
Can't go past hoping we do well, rather than a full swagger of " we've got this ". Only ask for a live 5th game, that'd be good.
Sensed a bit of fatigue in Kohli last game and maybe a big factor for us might be the tiredness after an historical trip to oz, tempered with what Indian batsmen could do on our wickets, if 3 batting performances from an average Sri Lanka was any guide.
Really dont know how it'll pan out but i suspect we'll have to be at the top of our game
Should be bloody interesting.
C'mon lads! Let's see whatcha got
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Indians will have a freakishly strong batting lineup....nothing new.
....they'll also have an ordinary bowling line up....nothing new.
Exploit the latter as best you can BCs.
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@Siam said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 bless you
3 quick reasons backing the ordinary bowling line up appraisal?
@Siam said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 bless you
3 quick reasons backing the ordinary bowling line up appraisal?
It's obvious he didn't watch a minute of their Australian tour.
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Indians will have a freakishly strong batting lineup....nothing new.
....they'll also have an ordinary bowling line up....nothing new.
Exploit the latter as best you can BCs.
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
Indians will have a freakishly strong batting lineup....nothing new.
....they'll also have an ordinary bowling line up....nothing new.
Exploit the latter as best you can BCs.
Those bowlers could run through NZ I fear. They are good quality. India are in the top 2 teams in every format, they are a seriously good side now. And they have the money and the population; they seem to have started to put together some pathways to generate decent players. Watch out the rest of the world, I think India could easily become a dominant force in world cricket indefinitely.
Also, they produced Sehwag. What a farking genius with the bat, someone I made time to watch.
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India traditionally were strong at home and pussies on the road. Great stroke players - the occasional obdurate opening batsman, a truck load of quality spinners and once in a generation a genuinely world class quickie.
All of the above made them a very tough proposition at home and to a slightly lesser extent in the sub-continent.
Away from hone - I dunno what it was, the bland food, miserable weather, away from their families, different players and conditions but they used to be a totally different proposition. In the immortal words of Corporal Jones "they didn't like it up 'em" and frequently folded often tanking it.
All this has changed. I think IPL has had a lot to do with this. Despite having no affection for the game I do concede that the travelling T/20 global circuit seems to have emboldened Indian players. Whatever their mental reservations about playing overseas they have overcome them. Plus pitches in India are more encouraging to seamers than in the past. Throw in the vast amount of money/power BCCI wields and voila, as @nzzp writes - they seem to be on the verge of producing a dynasty.
It's akin in some respects to the rise of "plucky" Ireland in rugby to being a (for now) world power, but it seems certain to be more sustained. I have no problem with this on the cricketing front. India are and almost always have been an entertaining bunch. Following a BC's tour to India is on my bucket list. However I have massive reservations about the fluffybunnies at BCCI controlling world cricket
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India traditionally were strong at home and pussies on the road. Great stroke players - the occasional obdurate opening batsman, a truck load of quality spinners and once in a generation a genuinely world class quickie.
All of the above made them a very tough proposition at home and to a slightly lesser extent in the sub-continent.
Away from hone - I dunno what it was, the bland food, miserable weather, away from their families, different players and conditions but they used to be a totally different proposition. In the immortal words of Corporal Jones "they didn't like it up 'em" and frequently folded often tanking it.
All this has changed. I think IPL has had a lot to do with this. Despite having no affection for the game I do concede that the travelling T/20 global circuit seems to have emboldened Indian players. Whatever their mental reservations about playing overseas they have overcome them. Plus pitches in India are more encouraging to seamers than in the past. Throw in the vast amount of money/power BCCI wields and voila, as @nzzp writes - they seem to be on the verge of producing a dynasty.
It's akin in some respects to the rise of "plucky" Ireland in rugby to being a (for now) world power, but it seems certain to be more sustained. I have no problem with this on the cricketing front. India are and almost always have been an entertaining bunch. Following a BC's tour to India is on my bucket list. However I have massive reservations about the fluffybunnies at BCCI controlling world cricket
@dogmeat said in Black Caps v India:
However I have massive reservations about the fluffybunnies at BCCI controlling world cricket
Yep, potentially either corrupt, or engaging in 'sharp practice'. BUT they generate 70% of revenue in world cricket. Our domestic game only exists because India inject so much money when they tour here. It's remarkable.
BCCI have an operating income of $1.4B USD (just over $2B NZD). It's an insane amount of money - and that's why I think they are so different to Ireland in your example above. Ireland have a good team, with a good coach, but I can't see them forming a dynasty. India, with that kind of money and a billion people should start churning out high quality cricketers. Once they start, they won't stop -- and arguably they are starting to get their systems in place to do this. England and Australia hate it, because they dominated world cricket for so long.
Frankly, all the administrators are muppets, so I'm not too fussed whether it's an indian, australian or english foot on the throat of NZ cricket :). Financially, we're just a minnow that punches above our weight on the cricket field.
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@Siam said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 bless you
3 quick reasons backing the ordinary bowling line up appraisal?
Got home after a night out and was extremely pissed. I think I thought I was posting in the mid 2000s. It's my only explanation cos I seriously don't remember writing that.
I got the batting part right at least....
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@Siam said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 bless you
3 quick reasons backing the ordinary bowling line up appraisal?
Got home after a night out and was extremely pissed. I think I thought I was posting in the mid 2000s. It's my only explanation cos I seriously don't remember writing that.
I got the batting part right at least....
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@Siam said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 bless you
3 quick reasons backing the ordinary bowling line up appraisal?
Got home after a night out and was extremely pissed. I think I thought I was posting in the mid 2000s. It's my only explanation cos I seriously don't remember writing that.
I got the batting part right at least....
Well at least your not stuck in the mid 90s anymore. Progress.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@Siam said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 bless you
3 quick reasons backing the ordinary bowling line up appraisal?
Got home after a night out and was extremely pissed. I think I thought I was posting in the mid 2000s. It's my only explanation cos I seriously don't remember writing that.
I got the batting part right at least....
Well at least your not stuck in the mid 90s anymore. Progress.
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@Siam said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 bless you
3 quick reasons backing the ordinary bowling line up appraisal?
Got home after a night out and was extremely pissed. I think I thought I was posting in the mid 2000s. It's my only explanation cos I seriously don't remember writing that.
I got the batting part right at least....
Well at least your not stuck in the mid 90s anymore. Progress.
I always will be with music
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@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
@canefan said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.
The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.
I'd still go Michael Bevan but I get your point.
I'm so fucked off my boy the Neesh is injured yet again.
Bevan is the other name that springs to mind but he didn't have the same destructive hitting power that Dhoni has. They're almost a different era though, I don't think Bevan would be as effective today where batsmen are expected to hit their teams up to 350+ with 6 after 6.
I recall him being great between the wickets and very good at keeping the runs ticking over. Different game then as you say
i think what gets overlooked is Dhoni between the wickets, he's way quicker than a solidly-built 37 year old has any reason to be. Watch Tuesday night's chase for an example of ones turned in to twos that turned a tricky chase into a pretty easy one despite the boundaries not flowing.
He's a strange one, though. He's got a tendency to fuck around until he's the only person who can win it for them - and if he gets out they're sunk. I thought he helped get Kohli out the other night with a lack of urgency - and in the first game he dabbed around getting something like 6 runs off 35 balls.
If his powers have waned at all, then this could be an achilles heel for the Indians.
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v India:
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
@canefan said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.
The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.
I'd still go Michael Bevan but I get your point.
I'm so fucked off my boy the Neesh is injured yet again.
Bevan is the other name that springs to mind but he didn't have the same destructive hitting power that Dhoni has. They're almost a different era though, I don't think Bevan would be as effective today where batsmen are expected to hit their teams up to 350+ with 6 after 6.
I recall him being great between the wickets and very good at keeping the runs ticking over. Different game then as you say
i think what gets overlooked is Dhoni between the wickets, he's way quicker than a solidly-built 37 year old has any reason to be. Watch Tuesday night's chase for an example of ones turned in to twos that turned a tricky chase into a pretty easy one despite the boundaries not flowing.
He's a strange one, though. He's got a tendency to fuck around until he's the only person who can win it for them - and if he gets out they're sunk. I thought he helped get Kohli out the other night with a lack of urgency - and in the first game he dabbed around getting something like 6 runs off 35 balls.
If his powers have waned at all, then this could be an achilles heel for the Indians.
He certainly doesn't panic when the RR starts creeping up. Where others would play a rash shot and get out, he takes full responsibility for getting the job done and makes sure he gets his eye in properly. I agree he can take that a bit far - first ODI he definitely went too slowly, but as m4l says he gets it done way more than not so hard to be too critical.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v India:
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
@canefan said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.
The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.
I'd still go Michael Bevan but I get your point.
I'm so fucked off my boy the Neesh is injured yet again.
Bevan is the other name that springs to mind but he didn't have the same destructive hitting power that Dhoni has. They're almost a different era though, I don't think Bevan would be as effective today where batsmen are expected to hit their teams up to 350+ with 6 after 6.
I recall him being great between the wickets and very good at keeping the runs ticking over. Different game then as you say
i think what gets overlooked is Dhoni between the wickets, he's way quicker than a solidly-built 37 year old has any reason to be. Watch Tuesday night's chase for an example of ones turned in to twos that turned a tricky chase into a pretty easy one despite the boundaries not flowing.
He's a strange one, though. He's got a tendency to fuck around until he's the only person who can win it for them - and if he gets out they're sunk. I thought he helped get Kohli out the other night with a lack of urgency - and in the first game he dabbed around getting something like 6 runs off 35 balls.
If his powers have waned at all, then this could be an achilles heel for the Indians.
He certainly doesn't panic when the RR starts creeping up. Where others would play a rash shot and get out, he takes full responsibility for getting the job done and makes sure he gets his eye in properly. I agree he can take that a bit far - first ODI he definitely went too slowly, but as m4l says he gets it done way more than not so hard to be too critical.
@No-Quarter Yeah - just that I've watched on several occasions where he's dug them (and himself) deep into a strike rate hole and then got out - and the cause is completely lost. The first ODI vs Oz was a good example.
Might be that he simply doesn't rate the guys who come after him and thinks that him blocking the ball is more valuable than anyone else facing a ball - no matter how many times he does it. Could be right and probably he just has a better understanding than me (and most others) of how to play the game.
But, his past 12 months haven't been stellar, so maybe like everyone else, Father Time is catching up. Look at the average and strike rate - and the strike rates of individual innings.
Could be a point of weakness if he's going to dig them into holes along with the long tail that they're bringing.
Knock over a couple early - two of Rohit, Kohli or Dhawan - and then Rayadu and Karthik aren't quite as fearsome.
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@No-Quarter Yeah - just that I've watched on several occasions where he's dug them (and himself) deep into a strike rate hole and then got out - and the cause is completely lost. The first ODI vs Oz was a good example.
Might be that he simply doesn't rate the guys who come after him and thinks that him blocking the ball is more valuable than anyone else facing a ball - no matter how many times he does it. Could be right and probably he just has a better understanding than me (and most others) of how to play the game.
But, his past 12 months haven't been stellar, so maybe like everyone else, Father Time is catching up. Look at the average and strike rate - and the strike rates of individual innings.
Could be a point of weakness if he's going to dig them into holes along with the long tail that they're bringing.
Knock over a couple early - two of Rohit, Kohli or Dhawan - and then Rayadu and Karthik aren't quite as fearsome.
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@dogmeat said in Black Caps v India:
However I have massive reservations about the fluffybunnies at BCCI controlling world cricket
Yep, potentially either corrupt, or engaging in 'sharp practice'. BUT they generate 70% of revenue in world cricket. Our domestic game only exists because India inject so much money when they tour here. It's remarkable.
BCCI have an operating income of $1.4B USD (just over $2B NZD). It's an insane amount of money - and that's why I think they are so different to Ireland in your example above. Ireland have a good team, with a good coach, but I can't see them forming a dynasty. India, with that kind of money and a billion people should start churning out high quality cricketers. Once they start, they won't stop -- and arguably they are starting to get their systems in place to do this. England and Australia hate it, because they dominated world cricket for so long.
Frankly, all the administrators are muppets, so I'm not too fussed whether it's an indian, australian or english foot on the throat of NZ cricket :). Financially, we're just a minnow that punches above our weight on the cricket field.
@nzzp yep, might even be an argument that India have been better running the game than poms and ockers.
Made cricket a genuine high earning career on their watch, everyone plays each other more (poms used to go to sub continent once every decade, aus similar), have spread the money around (we get a year's revenue from one full indian tour).
After the Drs refusals a few years ago, cricket has been relatively issue free for a few years now.
Besides if the poms ran the game it'd have to be "bats-they" or "bats-them" in a year or two!
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@No-Quarter Yeah - just that I've watched on several occasions where he's dug them (and himself) deep into a strike rate hole and then got out - and the cause is completely lost. The first ODI vs Oz was a good example.
Might be that he simply doesn't rate the guys who come after him and thinks that him blocking the ball is more valuable than anyone else facing a ball - no matter how many times he does it. Could be right and probably he just has a better understanding than me (and most others) of how to play the game.
But, his past 12 months haven't been stellar, so maybe like everyone else, Father Time is catching up. Look at the average and strike rate - and the strike rates of individual innings.
Could be a point of weakness if he's going to dig them into holes along with the long tail that they're bringing.
Knock over a couple early - two of Rohit, Kohli or Dhawan - and then Rayadu and Karthik aren't quite as fearsome.
@Chris-B It is similar to Taylor before he sorted out his eyes and to some degree at the moment. He struggles to keep the scoreboard ticking over early on but if he does get towards the end of the innings then he catches up fast. Whereas someone like KW is much better at keeping close to a run a ball but can't put the pedal to the metal like other batsmen. Worst case is Dhoni gets to 20 off 50 balls and then gets out .....
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@Chris-B Good points.
I do think it's a bit like worrying if Dan Carter was going to fail us come World cup time - definitely possible but the career pedigree suggests it's quite low on the list of forcastable banana skins
@Siam said in Black Caps v India:
@Chris-B Good points.
I do think it's a bit like worrying if Dan Carter was going to fail us come World cup time - definitely possible but the career pedigree suggests it's quite low on the list of forcastable banana skins
Yeah - it's always hard as people approach the end of their careers to know whether they've had a genuine slowing of reactions, or they're just having a lean patch.
But, sooner or later, Father Time gets everyone. And I won't shed anywhere near as many tears for Dhoni if he's run out of gas as I would've if Danny had run out in 2015!
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