Hurricanes 2020
-
@Stargazer Not always.
-
-
Looking at all the NZ franchises, only the Blues have now filled all their first five-spots. Assuming the Highlanders will re-sign Josh Ioane, and have signed Mitch Hunt (which still hasn't been confirmed), they don't need another 10 either. The Crusaders will need at least one to replace Hunt, but I suspect they'll promote Burke to the squad (despite being unconvincing for the NZU20s).
The Chiefs should re-sign Debreczeni, but shouldn't make the same mistake and sign Dmac as a first-five. He's a fullback covering 10 at best. So they need two more. Maybe they'll re-sign Falcon, and for lack of other options, MMac, but they might look at alternatives (they should).
That makes the situation at the Canes the most urgent - with only a very average Jackson Garden-Bachop signed and Fletcher Smith still to re-sign as far as we know (would the Chiefs chase him?). The Canes may still have to compete with the Chiefs for a signature though. There aren't many options in NZ, other than young rookies or other players who've never made the step up.
The Highlanders have used Hollinshead as injury cover. Maybe they'll consider him.
Talented rookies with Mitre 10 Cup experience I can think of are Lincoln McClutchie and Willi Havili. Maybe someone can confirm, but Kaleb Trask is first and foremost a fullback, isn't he, although he can play first five? The Chiefs might already have locked him in, anyway.Of the other 2018 Mitre 10 Cup first fives, the Turbos have lost Jade Te Rure to Yorkshire Carnegie. Beaudein Waaka has moved to Oz and will probably play for a spot in the Melbourne Rebels (he was part of their WTG).
At the moment, I can't think of any other first five-eighths, who may be talented or experienced enough for the step up to SR. Despite all his injuries, the Canes will be hoping Cruden is keen to return, or that Hayden Parker is released from his Japanese contract, but the pickings are slim.
If one thing is clear, the SR franchises must put a lot of development effort in young first five-eights. That won't help them much during the 2020 season, but maybe the following seasons.
-
Danny Toala played at 10 for his club side as they won their semi-final over the weekend. He made a decent fist of it, with good tactical kicking. I would want to see him play a few games in that position in Mitre 10 Cup though before saying that was a option at Super level.
-
Looking at all the NZ franchises, only the Blues have now filled all their first five-spots. Assuming the Highlanders will re-sign Josh Ioane, and have signed Mitch Hunt (which still hasn't been confirmed), they don't need another 10 either. The Crusaders will need at least one to replace Hunt, but I suspect they'll promote Burke to the squad (despite being unconvincing for the NZU20s).
The Chiefs should re-sign Debreczeni, but shouldn't make the same mistake and sign Dmac as a first-five. He's a fullback covering 10 at best. So they need two more. Maybe they'll re-sign Falcon, and for lack of other options, MMac, but they might look at alternatives (they should).
That makes the situation at the Canes the most urgent - with only a very average Jackson Garden-Bachop signed and Fletcher Smith still to re-sign as far as we know (would the Chiefs chase him?). The Canes may still have to compete with the Chiefs for a signature though. There aren't many options in NZ, other than young rookies or other players who've never made the step up.
The Highlanders have used Hollinshead as injury cover. Maybe they'll consider him.
Talented rookies with Mitre 10 Cup experience I can think of are Lincoln McClutchie and Willi Havili. Maybe someone can confirm, but Kaleb Trask is first and foremost a fullback, isn't he, although he can play first five? The Chiefs might already have locked him in, anyway.Of the other 2018 Mitre 10 Cup first fives, the Turbos have lost Jade Te Rure to Yorkshire Carnegie. Beaudein Waaka has moved to Oz and will probably play for a spot in the Melbourne Rebels (he was part of their WTG).
At the moment, I can't think of any other first five-eighths, who may be talented or experienced enough for the step up to SR. Despite all his injuries, the Canes will be hoping Cruden is keen to return, or that Hayden Parker is released from his Japanese contract, but the pickings are slim.
If one thing is clear, the SR franchises must put a lot of development effort in young first five-eights. That won't help them much during the 2020 season, but maybe the following seasons.
-
@Stargazer Fletcher Smith signed a 2 year deal last year so he’s locked in next year.
@mikey07 Do you have an (online) source for that, because I've never seen any contract duration published?
Edit: just found an article on Stuff. Not really the kind of source I'm looking for, but since I can't find anything on the Hurricanes website, that will have to do.
So the Hurricanes will only need to sign one experienced first five-eighth. That will have to be a damn good one.
-
@mikey07 Do you have an (online) source for that, because I've never seen any contract duration published?
Edit: just found an article on Stuff. Not really the kind of source I'm looking for, but since I can't find anything on the Hurricanes website, that will have to do.
So the Hurricanes will only need to sign one experienced first five-eighth. That will have to be a damn good one.
@Stargazer do we try for a foreigner for 2020? I reckon we could make a reasonable case and post RWC there could be some quality options floating around.
Snagging cruden would be gold. But seems highly unlikely. Parker would be 50/50 at best imo - better than what we've currently got, but will he ever be a top drawer 1st 5? Hmm prob not.
I dont think JGB has had enough time to show his potential, but would agree that he's been more rocks than diamonds so far.
-
@Stargazer do we try for a foreigner for 2020? I reckon we could make a reasonable case and post RWC there could be some quality options floating around.
Snagging cruden would be gold. But seems highly unlikely. Parker would be 50/50 at best imo - better than what we've currently got, but will he ever be a top drawer 1st 5? Hmm prob not.
I dont think JGB has had enough time to show his potential, but would agree that he's been more rocks than diamonds so far.
JGB hasn't had enough time. When he did get game time this year against the Blues he had a VG game. Cruden's too injury prone now isn't he. Toala I was impressed with at 2nd vs the Blues and maybe he can become an option at first. I'd still like to see Jordan Barrett tried there is he stays at the Canes.
-
The Canes have said they've talked to a few first five options who are currently overseas who have shown interest in challenging for the Canes 10 jersey. I, however, find it hard to take anything the Canes say seriously after last year's promise of attracting a monster lock to the franchise came to nothing.
I would like them to lock up McLutchie as I think he has class written all over him. A proper game manager who knows how to use his weapons outside him. Obviously, he's had limited game time at NPC level to prove his worth so I am hoping he has a big tournament to prove he is upto the next level. Hopefully he brings his mate Fakatava along with him if he ends up signing for the Canes.
-
we've got a young but improved pack for next year. Esp at lock.
I think we got stuffed around by that SA lock we recruited. He was a big bopper but an absolute fizzle in the end. Plumtree will learn from that episode.
-
JGB hasn't had enough time. When he did get game time this year against the Blues he had a VG game. Cruden's too injury prone now isn't he. Toala I was impressed with at 2nd vs the Blues and maybe he can become an option at first. I'd still like to see Jordan Barrett tried there is he stays at the Canes.
@Winger said in Hurricanes 2020:
JGB hasn't had enough time. When he did get game time this year against the Blues he had a VG game.
He's 24 and played 13 games for the Rebels.
It's pretty optimistic to regard him as untried.
-
@Winger said in Hurricanes 2020:
JGB hasn't had enough time. When he did get game time this year against the Blues he had a VG game.
He's 24 and played 13 games for the Rebels.
It's pretty optimistic to regard him as untried.
-
They should try and get Perofeta out of his contract with the Blues. Bit of a punt but I like the jibe of the kid, he just needs time to mature and could learn a lot from Perenara partnering him in the halves.
-
@Chester-Draws on the other hand Jack Debreczeni is 26 and played 54 games for the Rebels.
@KiwiMurph said in Hurricanes 2020:
@Chester-Draws on the other hand Jack Debreczeni is 26 and played 54 games for the Rebels.
Yes, and?
Debreczeni got to play lots of games for them because he's quite good. And as soon as he got game time for the Chiefs he showed that.
Meanwhile Garden-Bachop has struggled to make the starting position, because he's not as good. Maybe he'll come better, but saying he "hasn't had enough time" is rather bizarre -- he's played most of a season of Super Rugby (including starting a decent number of times), a season of ITM starting for Wellington, and even been selected for the Maori ABs. How much do you have to play before it is "enough" that people know how good you are?
-
@KiwiMurph said in Hurricanes 2020:
@Chester-Draws on the other hand Jack Debreczeni is 26 and played 54 games for the Rebels.
Yes, and?
Debreczeni got to play lots of games for them because he's quite good. And as soon as he got game time for the Chiefs he showed that.
Meanwhile Garden-Bachop has struggled to make the starting position, because he's not as good. Maybe he'll come better, but saying he "hasn't had enough time" is rather bizarre -- he's played most of a season of Super Rugby (including starting a decent number of times), a season of ITM starting for Wellington, and even been selected for the Maori ABs. How much do you have to play before it is "enough" that people know how good you are?
Debreczeni got dropped last year for Rebels (2018) because he was so poor - they ended up shifting Hodge out of position to play 10 instead.
For what it's worth I'm no huge JGB fan - my point is to be wary of performances in Australia as there are other cases of players who look far better when they come to NZ (Taavao and Robbie Abel are two other recent examples).
-
@KiwiMurph said in Hurricanes 2020:
@Chester-Draws on the other hand Jack Debreczeni is 26 and played 54 games for the Rebels.
Yes, and?
Debreczeni got to play lots of games for them because he's quite good. And as soon as he got game time for the Chiefs he showed that.
Meanwhile Garden-Bachop has struggled to make the starting position, because he's not as good. Maybe he'll come better, but saying he "hasn't had enough time" is rather bizarre -- he's played most of a season of Super Rugby (including starting a decent number of times), a season of ITM starting for Wellington, and even been selected for the Maori ABs. How much do you have to play before it is "enough" that people know how good you are?
@Chester-Draws and being not as good as BB means he hasn't had opportunities - nor should that be a black mark against a less experienced player. Particularly when they were also trying out Smith and toying with Marshall providing cover. So unless we expect him to rock up as a fully polished and influential super rugby player there has to be some time to develop. He's had 6 games for the canes which isn't enough imo to make a full judgement on where he'll end up.
I'm not sold on him by any means, but think he offers as much as Smith, who also hasn't dominated in his appearances.
Unless we snag an established player we are going to have to try a few options. And even if we do get someone proven we'll still need back ups in the squad.
-
What about chucking money at Josh McKay? He looks like he could go bloody well at 10 and correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t he play 10 at school for CBH? Josh Ioane is a lock at 10 for the Landers atm so it would make sense if he broke his contract for more opportunity. Whether he actually wants to play 10 at Super is another question. He just looks to have more of a ceiling over the likes of JGB and Smith.
-
@Chester-Draws and being not as good as BB means he hasn't had opportunities - nor should that be a black mark against a less experienced player. Particularly when they were also trying out Smith and toying with Marshall providing cover. So unless we expect him to rock up as a fully polished and influential super rugby player there has to be some time to develop. He's had 6 games for the canes which isn't enough imo to make a full judgement on where he'll end up.
I'm not sold on him by any means, but think he offers as much as Smith, who also hasn't dominated in his appearances.
Unless we snag an established player we are going to have to try a few options. And even if we do get someone proven we'll still need back ups in the squad.
@Paekakboyz said in Hurricanes 2020:
I'm not sold on him by any means, but think he offers as much as Smith, who also hasn't dominated in his appearances.
I think this is where teams go wrong -- they insist on trying to get guys who can dominate. If there was anyone that good, then they'd already be long since snapped up.
Instead of the Hurricanes trying to get some dominant star, why not get the best guy who can do his job and make the others look good? The Hurricanes have got good centres, they don't need an all-star first five. Smith strikes me as a guy who does his core job well enough, and allows others to do their job well.
Meanwhile the Blues have continued to try and find a star #10, so getting guys like Black, West, etc -- guys who don't kick goals well, and shovel the ball out, but once in a while look spectacular with ball in hand. They could have just got someone steady, won a few more games, and then a better player might think it's a franchise he could join. Meanwhile the Highlanders have been better served by just having Ioane do his business without trying to win the game by himself. And the Chiefs managed better with a plodding MMac than a star like DMac.
