Hurricanes 2020
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Geez, what a load of cr*p. If they want franchises other than the Crusaders to be better, start improving your player identification and development. Give young players an opportunity to play at SR level instead of keeping them on ice. Improve culture, where needed. Get better coaches, who can develop better players and better game plans.
You can't convince me that there is not enough talent in the Blues, Chiefs and Hurricanes catchment to develop into good SR players, or even ABs. The Highlanders may depend on players from other catchments for demographic reasons. If franchises don't have enough talent in their squad, it's because they haven't identified the right talent, haven't developed that talent well, or their culture sucks. Most talented players don't want to move away from family if they can stay at a franchise that can develop them into good SR players and/or ABs.
If the rumoured move from Ofa Tu'ungafasi to the Saders happens, I'd not be in favour of that. The Blues sure need him, he's achieved becoming an AB, and he has come through their academy.
If Frizell moves to the Saders, at least he's going to the franchise of his NPC team ( Ta$man). But the Landers are already losing so many players and he became an AB while playing for them, so I'd not support that either, although he played 2 seasons for Ta$man before joining the Landers, so he's possibly been in the Crusaders set-up before moving.
If Jordie moves to the Saders, I've less of a problem with it, because he has been developed by Canterbury and the Crusaders academy, and if BB moves on from the Canes, he'll just want to join his other brother in Chch. Instead of saying that "he will look (much) better playing for a Crusader team stacked with ABs", you could just make the honest assessment that he may actually improve as a player and will not only look better, but become a better player at the Crusaders due to better coaching etc. But still, I'm not convinced the Crusaders need him, so unless he's unhappy at the Canes, let him stay there.
However, limiting the number of All Blacks at franchises (read: Crusaders), denies the truth that all of the Crusaders' current ABs were developed into All Blacks by the Crusaders. If you limit the number of ABs (by capping the allocated budget for ABs per franchise), you're forcing some players to move to other franchises. Have you ever thought of the possibility that that might result in those players having to play for teams they don't want to play for (possibly affecting their motivation)? Or those players performance dropping because they work with lesser coaches and trainers, play under inadequate game plans, or function in a team culture that doesn't suit them?
So I've some sympathy for putting some mild restrictions on player movement (i.e. established SR players, who have been developed by and get sufficient game time at their current franchise) and to a degree it already happens; I'm quite sure NZR had a big role in keeping Akira (and Rieko?) Ioane at the Blues before the last time he re-signed.
However, I'm absolutely against forcing players to move from one franchise to the other (read: from the Crusaders to another franchise). I'm quite sure if NZR would want to force some of the Crusaders players to play for other franchises, they'd opt for playing overseas instead. Actually, that may also be the consequence if you completely stop players from other franchises from moving to the Crusaders.
I'm also against stopping a player, whose development is stalling at another franchise, or who doesn't get sufficient game time at that franchsie, or who doesn't even get a contract at that franchise, from moving to another franchise if he can improve his carreer prospects. It happens in every profession. If you can't improve, can't get a promotion or a pay rise, you look for another employer where you can achieve that.
And while we're at it, some people are full of hypocrisy, too. They are complaining about good players, who are important to a franchise, moving to the Crusaders. But what about Lomax, who's extremely important to the Highlanders, moving to the Hurricanes? I haven't heard a Canes fan saying that that should not be possible because it's damaging the Highlanders (who have by far the smallest player pool). I don't know how Blues fans rate Scrafton, but he's also moving from a weaker performing team to the Canes. Should NZR stop that, too?
@Stargazer said in Hurricanes 2020:
And while we're at it, some people are full of hypocrisy, too. They are complaining about good players, who are important to a franchise, moving to the Crusaders. But what about Lomax, who's extremely important to the Highlanders, moving to the Hurricanes? I haven't heard a Canes fan saying that that should not be possible because it's damaging the Highlanders (who have by far the smallest player pool). I don't know how Blues fans rate Scrafton, but he's also moving from a weaker performing team to the Canes. Should NZR stop that, too?
Neither of these two are current ABs.
Scrafton got a 4/10 rating in stuff for the Blues season recently. And Lomax was born in the Canes region and is moving back home for family reasons.
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That's what needs to be addressed. something I can almost ensure the NZRU hasn't done. And its not just about the Canes. i want to want to watch the Blues playing the Crusaders again. Or watch a final with the outcome unknown.
And face it. Super rugby is boring and a bit pointless at present. As the winner is known with 99% certainty before the season kicks off. It appalling that NZR has sat back and watch this outcome occur.
@Winger said in Hurricanes 2020:
That's what needs to be addressed. something I can almost ensure the NZRU hasn't done. And its not just about the Canes. i want to want to watch the Blues playing the Crusaders again. Or watch a final with the outcome unknown.
And face it. Super rugby is boring and a bit pointless at present. As the winner is known with 99% certainty before the season kicks off. It appalling that NZR has sat back and watch this outcome occur.
What needs to be addressed? The NZRU clearly take an interest in ensuring that franchises are competent as they've stepped in to the blues to try and revive the franchise. Likewise they've be involved with the Highlanders in the past.
They already have a salary cap in place as there are spending limits and maximum salaries for players. So it's not possible for a franchise to buy up all the talent. Direct contracting further eases the spread of talent as a team can't hoard players in an NPC team and prevent anyone else from getting them.
The only other options are for the NZRU to further reduce salary caps, taking money out of players pockets, or forcing players to move when a franchise is to good, be it via a regular redraft, an all black cap (no more than ten in a squad or something), or just discretionary decisions from the centre. All are terrible ideas and won't achieve what you want but will be players and teams unhappy.
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The main advantage the Crusaders have is a core group of very very good players who have been there a long time, and form the bulk of the team. That's an advantage that can not be over looked.
Of course, the fact that this group of players follows another group of very very good players who were there a long time should probably indicate they are are doing something right, and the other sides should be looking at it. And you know what, if they haven't after 20 years of sustained success, then more fool them.
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Well said
I'm hearing alot of whinging which essentially boils down to the Crusaders are too good atm
Lets screw them up a little by forcing players to move to weaker NZ teams in Super Rugby
But that won't work
Who the fuck in their right mind want to play for the Blues
Highlanders are bordering on a development team with a good hooker and halfback combination
@Jaguares4real said in Hurricanes 2020:
Highlanders are bordering on a development team with a good hooker and halfback combination
Yet still good enough to defeat the Jaguares 32 - 27
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The main advantage the Crusaders have is a core group of very very good players who have been there a long time, and form the bulk of the team. That's an advantage that can not be over looked.
Of course, the fact that this group of players follows another group of very very good players who were there a long time should probably indicate they are are doing something right, and the other sides should be looking at it. And you know what, if they haven't after 20 years of sustained success, then more fool them.
@mariner4life said in Hurricanes 2020:
The main advantage the Crusaders have is a core group of very very good players who have been there a long time, and form the bulk of the team. That's an advantage that can not be over looked.
Of course, the fact that this group of players follows another group of very very good players who were there a long time should probably indicate they are are doing something right, and the other sides should be looking at it. And you know what, if they haven't after 20 years of sustained success, then more fool them.
Yeah, it can't hurt young guys to come in and see the standards being set by the likes of Read, Todd, Whitelock and Crotty and think 'right, this is what it means to play pro rugby.'
I think in was telling that when there was that injury break around the 30 minute mark and the crusaders went into a huddle Read was right there laying down the law. Whitelock is definitely a great leader, but there are plenty of other guys who are immense leaders and command the respect of the whole group.
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@Jaguares4real said in Hurricanes 2020:
Highlanders are bordering on a development team with a good hooker and halfback combination
Yet still good enough to defeat the Jaguares 32 - 27
@Higgins said in Hurricanes 2020:
@Jaguares4real said in Hurricanes 2020:
Highlanders are bordering on
Yet still good enough to defeat the Jaguares 32 - 27
In 2019 they did
In 2020 the Highlanders will resemble a development team with a good hooker and halfback combination
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@mariner4life said in Hurricanes 2020:
The main advantage the Crusaders have is a core group of very very good players who have been there a long time, and form the bulk of the team. That's an advantage that can not be over looked.
Of course, the fact that this group of players follows another group of very very good players who were there a long time should probably indicate they are are doing something right, and the other sides should be looking at it. And you know what, if they haven't after 20 years of sustained success, then more fool them.
Yeah, it can't hurt young guys to come in and see the standards being set by the likes of Read, Todd, Whitelock and Crotty and think 'right, this is what it means to play pro rugby.'
I think in was telling that when there was that injury break around the 30 minute mark and the crusaders went into a huddle Read was right there laying down the law. Whitelock is definitely a great leader, but there are plenty of other guys who are immense leaders and command the respect of the whole group.
@Cyclops said in Hurricanes 2020:
@mariner4life said in Hurricanes 2020:
The main advantage the Crusaders have is a core group of very very good players who have been there a long time, and form the bulk of the team. That's an advantage that can not be over looked.
Of course, the fact that this group of players follows another group of very very good players who were there a long time should probably indicate they are are doing something right, and the other sides should be looking at it. And you know what, if they haven't after 20 years of sustained success, then more fool them.
Yeah, it can't hurt young guys to come in and see the standards being set by the likes of Read, Todd, Whitelock and Crotty and think 'right, this is what it means to play pro rugby.'
I think in was telling that when there was that injury break around the 30 minute mark and the crusaders went into a huddle Read was right there laying down the law. Whitelock is definitely a great leader, but there are plenty of other guys who are immense leaders and command the respect of the whole group.
i made pretty much the same point in the Blues thread i think. Great leaders in the playing group is a huge thing for player development. It also allows mid-level players to raise their performances above what they may otherwise produce.
The Crusaders are benefiting now from really good balance to their list as well. A perfect mix of veterans, mid-career pros, and excited youngsters. Not every team has that right now. The key is retention.
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@Jaguares4real said in Hurricanes 2020:
Highlanders are bordering on a development team with a good hooker and halfback combination
Yet still good enough to defeat the Jaguares 32 - 27
@Higgins said in Hurricanes 2020:
@Jaguares4real said in Hurricanes 2020:
Highlanders are bordering on a development team with a good hooker and halfback combination
Yet still good enough to defeat the Jaguares 32 - 27
Remember, the Jaguares were probably the better team on the day :winking_face:
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The Hurricanes also need a new assistant coach. Richard Watt has left.
https://www.hurricanes.co.nz/news/article/richard-watts-dedication-recognised-by-the-hurricanes/
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The Hurricanes also need a new assistant coach. Richard Watt has left.
https://www.hurricanes.co.nz/news/article/richard-watts-dedication-recognised-by-the-hurricanes/
@Stargazer Watt a shame....sorry couldn’t help myself, I wonder if they already have a replacement lined up.
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Reports coming through that BB will sign a 4 year deal to play for the Blues. Rumours still suggest JB will take his talents to the Saders next season. Canes about to head into rebuild mode
@canefan classic Hurricanes, we will finally have a decent pack next year but now we don't have the backs.
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How long is TJ signed for?
Canes should ask TJ who he wants outside him.
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@sparky said in Hurricanes 2020:
Not as big a loss as when Conrad and Ma'a left IMHO.
FOH
It's alot easier to replace a centre than a 1st five especially in a team that depend on 5-6 star players to be successful & generally lacks quality across their squad
Saying that Canes will have a much better squad in 2020 but they won't sniff beating the Crusaders or Jaguares in all likelihood
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@sparky said in Hurricanes 2020:
Not as big a loss as when Conrad and Ma'a left IMHO.
FOH
It's alot easier to replace a centre than a 1st five especially in a team that depend on 5-6 star players to be successful & generally lacks quality across their squad
Saying that Canes will have a much better squad in 2020 but they won't sniff beating the Crusaders or Jaguares in all likelihood
@Jaguares4real lol the only reason the Jaguares made the final was because of the conference system, Crusaders and Hurricanes are clearly the two best teams and have been for the last four years.
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@Jaguares4real lol the only reason the Jaguares made the final was because of the conference system, Crusaders and Hurricanes are clearly the two best teams and have been for the last four years.
@Canes4life said in Hurricanes 2020:
@Jaguares4real lol the only reason the Jaguares made the final was because of the conference system, Crusaders and Hurricanes are clearly the two best teams and have been for the last four years.
Speaking of that, is it the same system for next year or are there changes?
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes 2020:
@Jaguares4real lol the only reason the Jaguares made the final was because of the conference system, Crusaders and Hurricanes are clearly the two best teams and have been for the last four years.
Speaking of that, is it the same system for next year or are there changes?
