Bledisloe #2
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@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe #2:
@African-Monkey yup that's what worries me. People forget how damn close that game was, it was real trench warfare.
Yeah I was, and still am, of the opinion that leaving Charles Piutau out of the 2015 squad for two rookies was a mistake. NMS provided some good highlights, but was a liability in our one stinker of a knockout game.
Big difference to this time though, Piutau was absolutely awesome back then, in 2019 we have guys who are flat, mediocre, or maybe just gotten too old.
@Rapido i dont recall Piutau being that far ahead of the rest back then, it was more when he hit Europe he was elevated.
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@African-Monkey said in Bledisloe #2:
@No-Quarter That's why I'd have JB on the right wing, and yes, I'm still shocked to this day that the Boks threw long with 10 to go 5 metres out and missed the target when I was certain they would go to their strength and go to front and rumble over or at the very least, win a penalty for Pollard to knock over because he wasn't missing that day.
Jordie is outstanding under the high ball but he's been really inconsistent this year, for both the Canes and the ABs. Some great mixed in with some awful, we can't afford brain farts in a tight knockout game.
That said, Bridge doesn't have a heap of experience either. The right wing spot is wide open.
@No-Quarter Yeah I get that. I do feel though that if he's told at he'll be playing in the one position instead of being thrown around everywhere, then we'll see the best of him. He gets my (irrelevant) vote to start on the right wing and is still a very good player in my eyes.
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@mariner4life Yeah they seemed to drop their heads once Leali'ifano missed those penalties when they were in control. They also should have scored before he missed his 2nd kick.
Well done and great to see a lot of guys put their hands up and it's been long overdue (people will say keeping the powder dry etc.), but this is to be expected against an average Aussie outfit with all respect who got a touch up not long ago by a 2nd string Springbok side.
So, is that the end of Franks and Bender? I think yes for Franks who has had a great career but he's slowed down dramatically and doesn't look like he has another gear left in him. Bender I'd take as I feel that he still has something to offer and I'm still not fully convinced by Mo'unga and BB despite it going better this week. I still prefer it happening in the 2nd half of big tests against more tired opposition but if they go with it then so be it.
Tuipulotu or Scott Barrett? I think both will go and although I feel Tuipulotu offers more when in full flight and is more dominating in the contact as was shown last night, Barrett at this stage may get the gig on the bench (assuming Retallick is back) because he can cover 6 with Todd as the other loosie on the bench. We don't really need Todd and I'd rather we had someone who can cover everywhere (mainly 6 or no.8) in the back row like Papali'i/Jacobsen/Akira (I know his name is forbidden on here these days for obvious reasons) as we already have 2 great 7s in the squad but again, if he goes then so be it.
What do we do with the midfield? Plenty of decent options there. Goodhue would almost be a certainty at 13 if fit (or is he), but inside him will always be up for debate. I think they go with SBW but either way I'm not fussed. ALB was awesome last night and has the ability to play both 12 and 13 equally as well. I don't think even the coaches know who they're gonna go with there, it really is a tough one. I guess they'll take Crotty as back up as well with Laumape missing out.
What do we do with our back 3? Before the test last night I would have said Ben Smith, Ioane and JB and I would still stick to it in big tests as those NH sides are really gonna test us under the high ball but lets be honest here, the RM/BB combo is here to stay so the big debate remains as to who we're gonna pick on the wings. Reece and Bridge were both outstanding last night that can't be denied, but for defensive purposes, I'd still have Rieko and JB on the wings. Yes I know nothing got past Bridge and Reece last night, but we're gonna have much tougher tests to come and 1 test where the Aussies went back to their old ways doesn't change my opinion on that. Rieko will come right (he hasn't really been that bad tbh), and despite JB being hated by a lot of people rightly or wrongly, he still remains a very good player in my eyes and a very solid bet on the right wing and also made some big defensive plays out there yesterday when he came on.
Then there are other debates such as Moli or Tu'inukuafe. For me, it's a no brainer, Tu'inukuafe goes. He's performed there before and is currently playing very well in the Mitre 10 Cup after suffering with his health during the Super Rugby season. Moli is a project player who has barely done anything to be there in the first place and should be back learning his trade at the lower levels before coming back.
Who starts out of Coles and Taylor. I'm a huge fan of Codie Taylor and although he's probably behind a fully fit Coles, that may change if Coles continues to do dumb shit like he did last night. Throwing White around like he did was unneessary and will cost us in more important situations so again, Coles is probably slightly ahead at this stage, but that could easily change. Who gets the third spot? Probably Harris. Coltman is good over the ball but can't throw to save his life and Aumua is far too raw if an injury happens. I like the kid but he needs to learn his trade at the lower levels similar to Atu Moli, so Harris probably gets it by default.
@African-Monkey you don’t want Coltman because he can’t throw to save himself, yet you want Harris, who is guaranteed to throw his first 2 line outs crooked...
Personally I can’t see them going back to Harris after being overlooked for Coltman and Aumua in TRC squad. Coltman hasn’t had enough chances to play himself out out of the squad.
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@African-Monkey you don’t want Coltman because he can’t throw to save himself, yet you want Harris, who is guaranteed to throw his first 2 line outs crooked...
Personally I can’t see them going back to Harris after being overlooked for Coltman and Aumua in TRC squad. Coltman hasn’t had enough chances to play himself out out of the squad.
@Gunner Hey, I'm not high on Harris either but I think they sent him back to play for BOP for more gametime to sharpen up instead of carrying tackle bags and they obviously want to see the other 2 in the enviroment. It's only for the 3rd hooker spot but they've had him for the last 3-4 years around the squad and Coltman and Aumua haven't done anything amazing limited opportunity or not to overtake him so I think Harris makes the squad.
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@No-Quarter That's why I'd have JB on the right wing, and yes, I'm still shocked to this day that the Boks threw long with 10 to go 5 metres out and missed the target when I was certain they would go to their strength and go to front and rumble over or at the very least, win a penalty for Pollard to knock over because he wasn't missing that day.
@African-Monkey said in Bledisloe #2:
@No-Quarter That's why I'd have JB on the right wing, and yes, I'm still shocked to this day that the Boks threw long with 10 to go 5 metres out and missed the target when I was certain they would go to their strength and go to front and rumble over or at the very least, win a penalty for Pollard to knock over because he wasn't missing that day.
Sam Whitelock winning that lineout ball is one of the great AB moments.
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I remember the coaches saying, rightly or wrongly they thought of Charles as a left winger , so he wasn’t going to displace Jules ( at the time )
And nms was carving it up on the right when given an opportunity. I thought he and bender on the right as a 1-2 punch worked well
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Great performance but hard to truly assess where they are at. Australia brought so little line speed and made it easy for us, the other teams won't do this.
@akan004 said in Bledisloe #2:
Great performance but hard to truly assess where they are at. Australia brought so little line speed and made it easy for us, the other teams won't do this.
I thought we made it hard for them with the changes we made defensively around the fringes and also our territory game.
Much harder to try things with ball in hand when you are camped down in your half. That happened to us last week. Happened to OZ this week.
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@Stargazer haha Cane trying to cut Shag out of the selfie.
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@nzzp said in Bledisloe #2:
Crowd was in fine voice. Plenty of voice, plenty of vocal support. Our reputation as a library is probably not deserved any more... we're not shy of getting stuck in now. Would have felt pretty hostile. 3 minutes to go Aussies were leaving, and the whole north stand stood up and farewelled them. Quality.
Showed that on tele. Looked like the Aussies were owning it so credit to them.
@booboo said in Bledisloe #2:
@nzzp said in Bledisloe #2:
Crowd was in fine voice. Plenty of voice, plenty of vocal support. Our reputation as a library is probably not deserved any more... we're not shy of getting stuck in now. Would have felt pretty hostile. 3 minutes to go Aussies were leaving, and the whole north stand stood up and farewelled them. Quality.
Showed that on tele. Looked like the Aussies were owning it so credit to them.
yes the aussies who left early were very magnanimous - they sensibly wanted to be first to get to the bar
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So, the Sunday morning thread read isn't nearly as much fun when we win comfortably.
So my random thoughts on the game:
So I think I was correct in thinking we haven't been playing direct this year, however in this must win match we played really direct and smashed them up in the forwards. I think the TWM must be disappointed they had to play direct in this match as I think they were saving it for the cup finals themselves. We also massively tidied up our defence, although TBF last week we just had so little ball that we had to make so many tackles that we were always going to miss a few.
There seems to be a bit of a loss of perspective on the wings. Yes they both played well (Reece especially played better than I thought he would in defence and without the ball, Bridge as I expected) but it's impossible to make a comparison between this week and last week - last week the forwards played like fairies and the backs suffered because of it (and they were down to 14 for 40 minutes) and this week the pack kicked arse and the wings benefited from decent front foot and counter attack ball. I think Ioane would have carved up just like Bridge did last night with that extra space. Can't believe some are genuinely suggesting he'll be dropped.
Coles is getting shit but I thought he played well outside of his yellow and getting a yellow for dumping a mouthy halfback out of a maul which we were dominating isn't too bad in the scheme of things.
The loosies were awesome. Savea spent the first 40 minutes emulating his brother on the wing (the good version, not the fatty version), dare I say it very Fifita like, then spent the second 40 in the middle more making tackles and hitting rucks. I wonder if that was the gameplan. Also, we may as well just give Ardie the number 8 jumper. He's playing 8, Read is playing 6 and Cane is playing his brand of hard tackling 7 for 60 minutes until they bring Todd on. I still don't get Todd, good rugby player, but 3 7's in the team just seems overkill.
Patty T stood up and didn't get himself red carded so that's a bonus. Whitelock had a new haircut, he doesn't quite look like the missing link as much anymore, and that coincided with his best test of the year.
Beaunga is starting to gel I reckon. I was generally worried when Mo'unga came off injured. Not for the game, BB could easily slot into 10, but for the RWC. Thankfully it looks like it's not serious. SBW and ALB were both good. Smith ran the game well, like he used to.
JB still worries the shit out of me, even though I thought he was decent, but he still looks like he's 30 seconds away from doing something stupid. I guess I have to trust he'll come right like DMac did (who copped far worse from some posters than JB does for arguably less stupidity).
White looked shit this week, Genia looked good when he came on. The number 6 who changed his name was awesome last week, he was terrible this week. My non regular rugby watching Aussie mate picked up how bad he was early in the game and then spent the rest of the game shouting at the screen to get him off. Kervei was irrelevant without as much ball as last week and O'Connor was just left to tackle all day. Beale had his worst test in a while.
Best thing about the win (aside from keeping the Aussies scoreless), my Aussie mate who was in Singapore for last weeks match and spammed the shit out of me for two days after the match was sitting right next to me on the couch for this match. I'd like to say I was a magnanimous winner ... but I wasn't, I rubbed that win in his face all through the match and then for the next couple of hours at dinner, where to his credit he still proudly wore his wallabies jumper (which looks like a soccer shirt) all night.
Edit: Must proof better next time and not start three sentences in a row with 'so'.
Second Edit: How could I forget, how awesome was it seeing our 7 man scrum smash the Wallabies! Rugby porn of the highest order. -
I think the biggest lessons for both teams out of the last 8 days are:
The Wallabies' best is good enough to win
NZ can no longer have an off day, as below our best probably isn't good enough.
I think they are lessons both coaches will be happy with
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just re-watched it (fast forwarding to the good bits)
THat period under the pump 10 mins in was some great defence, granted we pushed the off-side line a bit...someone drove Beale back from the ingoal area into the field of play.
But as we started the 29th minute, the score was still 3-0...Aus were on attack, an average pass went to deck, Richie swooped and he was gone.
IIRC up until that point the stats were favouring the Aussies comfortably, but for no reward (2 missed kicks) nek minut 10-0, then 17-0...think the 28-31 min period broke the wallabies.
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just re-watched it (fast forwarding to the good bits)
THat period under the pump 10 mins in was some great defence, granted we pushed the off-side line a bit...someone drove Beale back from the ingoal area into the field of play.
But as we started the 29th minute, the score was still 3-0...Aus were on attack, an average pass went to deck, Richie swooped and he was gone.
IIRC up until that point the stats were favouring the Aussies comfortably, but for no reward (2 missed kicks) nek minut 10-0, then 17-0...think the 28-31 min period broke the wallabies.
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe #2:
THat period under the pump 10 mins in was some great defence, granted we pushed the off-side line a bit...someone drove Beale back from the ingoal area into the field of play.
Tuipolotu! Really stepped up
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe #2:
THat period under the pump 10 mins in was some great defence, granted we pushed the off-side line a bit...someone drove Beale back from the ingoal area into the field of play.
Tuipolotu! Really stepped up
@nzzp I watched the game again,Tuipulotu defensively wise was outstanding..may have played his way into the squad..we need this sort of form him every time he steps on the field.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe #2:
THat period under the pump 10 mins in was some great defence, granted we pushed the off-side line a bit...someone drove Beale back from the ingoal area into the field of play.
Tuipolotu! Really stepped up
@nzzp not quite as dramatic looking, but equally as important as a tackle on Digby Ioane around 8 years back...
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I think the biggest lessons for both teams out of the last 8 days are:
The Wallabies' best is good enough to win
NZ can no longer have an off day, as below our best probably isn't good enough.
I think they are lessons both coaches will be happy with
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe #2:
I think the biggest lessons for both teams out of the last 8 days are:
The Wallabies' best is good enough to win
NZ can no longer have an off day, as below our best probably isn't good enough.
I think they are lessons both coaches will be happy with
Agree. Lessons happily learned knowing the Bledisloe is locked away for another 12 months
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Beaudy played with a touch of Suzie's disease
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Beaudy played with a touch of Suzie's disease
@canefan said in Bledisloe #2:
Beaudy played with a touch of Suzie's disease
So we're even training for 1995 conditions!
