NBA season 2019/20
-
I watched the ESPN 30/30 on Rodman the other day that was cool
-
@raznomore said in NBA season 2019/20:
The whole part where management wanted him to tank when he was coming back from injury was fantastic. He was young 20s and sitting on the bench disgusted he was not allowed to play more than 7 minutes per 1/4. Other players, at that age, would be disappointed but he already knew he was the whole show. I think you can draw a lot of parallels between his first season and Ja Morant.
his face in that close game where he wasn't allowed in for the final seconds was the face of a man who was piiiiiiiissed
@mariner4life said in NBA season 2019/20:
@raznomore said in NBA season 2019/20:
The whole part where management wanted him to tank when he was coming back from injury was fantastic. He was young 20s and sitting on the bench disgusted he was not allowed to play more than 7 minutes per 1/4. Other players, at that age, would be disappointed but he already knew he was the whole show. I think you can draw a lot of parallels between his first season and Ja Morant.
his face in that close game where he wasn't allowed in for the final seconds was the face of a man who was piiiiiiiissed
But then showed his colours as a team guy by being straight off the bench to congratulate John Paxson on sinking the winning basket.
-
The Pippen salary stuff was mad. He sold himself drastically short signing for 7 seasons for USD18m. This made him only the 122nd best paid player in the NBA and only the sixth best paid on his team! Crazy. His justification was that he just wanted certainty and to be able to look after his family, which he did. But he could have probably negotiated harder and got paid at the time, or gone elsewhere. Even the owner acknowledged he sold himself short. Then eventually over time he got pissed off with it and acted like a petulant brat. I was pleased though that he got a good deal at the Rockets (USD11m for one year?), and presumably another pay day at the Blazers over four years. Still, when you think about it in relative terms, USD2.6m (NZD3.5m or so in todays' terms) isn't exactly living on the breadline, plus throw in private jet travel, five/six star accommodation, organisational and societal pampering and endorsements.
-
The Pippen salary stuff was mad. He sold himself drastically short signing for 7 seasons for USD18m. This made him only the 122nd best paid player in the NBA and only the sixth best paid on his team! Crazy. His justification was that he just wanted certainty and to be able to look after his family, which he did. But he could have probably negotiated harder and got paid at the time, or gone elsewhere. Even the owner acknowledged he sold himself short. Then eventually over time he got pissed off with it and acted like a petulant brat. I was pleased though that he got a good deal at the Rockets (USD11m for one year?), and presumably another pay day at the Blazers over four years. Still, when you think about it in relative terms, USD2.6m (NZD3.5m or so in todays' terms) isn't exactly living on the breadline, plus throw in private jet travel, five/six star accommodation, organisational and societal pampering and endorsements.
-
Pippen's $109.19 million career on court earnings were greater than Michael Jordan's $93.29 million, which even includes His Airness' salary during his 18-month baseball hiatus.@KiwiMurph said in NBA season 2019/20:
Pippen's $109.19 million career on court earnings were greater than Michael Jordan's $93.29 million, which even includes His Airness' salary during his 18-month baseball hiatus.How did he get to $109m when from 1991 - 98 at the Bulls he earned $18m, earned a rookie contract prior, then $11m in one year at the Rockets, and he only played another four with the Blazers and a brief final stint back with the Bulls?? That's close to $80m for five years???
-
@KiwiMurph said in NBA season 2019/20:
Pippen's $109.19 million career on court earnings were greater than Michael Jordan's $93.29 million, which even includes His Airness' salary during his 18-month baseball hiatus.How did he get to $109m when from 1991 - 98 at the Bulls he earned $18m, earned a rookie contract prior, then $11m in one year at the Rockets, and he only played another four with the Blazers and a brief final stint back with the Bulls?? That's close to $80m for five years???
I found the below
Scottie Pippen’s earnings came mostly after he left Chicago. He played with the Houston Rockets on a five-year, $67.2 million deal. He was traded to the Portland Trail Blazers. He finished his career in Chicago on a 23-game stretch, netting $10 million in the process. -
I found the below
Scottie Pippen’s earnings came mostly after he left Chicago. He played with the Houston Rockets on a five-year, $67.2 million deal. He was traded to the Portland Trail Blazers. He finished his career in Chicago on a 23-game stretch, netting $10 million in the process.@KiwiMurph said in NBA season 2019/20:
I found the below
Scottie Pippen’s earnings came mostly after he left Chicago. He played with the Houston Rockets on a five-year, $67.2 million deal. He was traded to the Portland Trail Blazers. He finished his career in Chicago on a 23-game stretch, netting $10 million in the process.Funny, I remember him playing for Portland but don't remember him playing in Houston
-
@KiwiMurph said in NBA season 2019/20:
I found the below
Scottie Pippen’s earnings came mostly after he left Chicago. He played with the Houston Rockets on a five-year, $67.2 million deal. He was traded to the Portland Trail Blazers. He finished his career in Chicago on a 23-game stretch, netting $10 million in the process.Funny, I remember him playing for Portland but don't remember him playing in Houston
-
I found the below
Scottie Pippen’s earnings came mostly after he left Chicago. He played with the Houston Rockets on a five-year, $67.2 million deal. He was traded to the Portland Trail Blazers. He finished his career in Chicago on a 23-game stretch, netting $10 million in the process.@KiwiMurph said in NBA season 2019/20:
I found the below
Scottie Pippen’s earnings came mostly after he left Chicago. He played with the Houston Rockets on a five-year, $67.2 million deal. He was traded to the Portland Trail Blazers. He finished his career in Chicago on a 23-game stretch, netting $10 million in the process.Ah nice one; that explains it.
So Portland took over that chunky contract from the Rockets.
-
@KiwiMurph said in NBA season 2019/20:
I found the below
Scottie Pippen’s earnings came mostly after he left Chicago. He played with the Houston Rockets on a five-year, $67.2 million deal. He was traded to the Portland Trail Blazers. He finished his career in Chicago on a 23-game stretch, netting $10 million in the process.Funny, I remember him playing for Portland but don't remember him playing in Houston
-
@canefan He and CB had a big spat. Sir Charles questioned his ethics and Pippen questioned Chucks' fat ass.
@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
@canefan He and CB had a big spat. Sir Charles questioned his ethics and Pippen questioned Chucks' fat ass.
Yeah, Wiki told me so. He was good for Portland so the deal worked out for them. Pippen said Charles was lazy, I guess he was telling the truth and his credibility was dangling from the bling on 6 of his fingers
-
-
Am loving the Last Dance so far, even got the wife into it.
Jerry Krause gets a rough deal, he got treated like sh*t by the players and all he was trying to do was get the best players / maximum chance of winning by cutting deals, i.e. his exact job. Which he was excellent at. All the "lol ur really short and fat" nonsense, from MJ and others reflects badly on them IMO.
Pippen comes across as a knob given the crying over his contract as others have detailed above. And then not getting surgery on time so he could "enjoy the summer" is ridiculous. Hard to reconcile the fact he was so good, given he could be that unprofessional in other areas.
Controversial opinion time....I've always thought LeBron was the GOAT over MJ, and I actually think this more having watched the first two episodes.
Hear me out....the NBA wasn't as good in the 1990s. There were 7 new expansion teams The elite level (i.e. All Star) was comparable to today, but the overall standard in 2020 is way higher. Basketball is a proper international game now, and the money involved is so much higher, its hugely lifted the average talent level across the league. There are no "easy nights/opponents" like MJ had in the 1990s. People give modern stars sh*t over load management etc, but its a logical outcome of the much tougher grind during the regular season today. I also think the season length should be reduced for this reason, but that's for another thread...
LeBron is a much more rounded player, which appeals to me. He can really do it all in every position. Stat lines like MJ dropping 60 with 5 rebounds and 4 assists doesn't do it for me like a 35pt triple double from LeBron does, but that's a personal preference.
The other thing is longevity. LeBron made the first team All-NBA in his second year in the league, as a 20yr old, at a time when MJ was a college sophomore at North Carolina. LBJ took a terrible Cleveland team to the finals the next year, while MJ was still at college. Fast forward to the other end of his career, and LBJ is still one of the best players in the NBA at age 35. He'd have my vote for MVP this year over Giannis (narrowly), and without the virus suspension I think LA would've won the title. That's absurd after 17 seasons of excellence, and for me means his overall body of work is greater than MJ's.
MJ had a higher peak for sure, with 6 rings and never losing in Finals. But he also got knocked out of the playoffs a lot, especially in the 80s. LBJ went to 8 straight finals, and 9 in total. Winning rings with outstanding teams like the 90s Bulls is less impressive (to me) than dragging fairly poor teams to the finals year after year. Although the Miami teams LBJ won with were great. If LBJ wins a 4th title with LA, and 3 different teams overall, then it seals it I reckon.
-
Am loving the Last Dance so far, even got the wife into it.
Jerry Krause gets a rough deal, he got treated like sh*t by the players and all he was trying to do was get the best players / maximum chance of winning by cutting deals, i.e. his exact job. Which he was excellent at. All the "lol ur really short and fat" nonsense, from MJ and others reflects badly on them IMO.
Pippen comes across as a knob given the crying over his contract as others have detailed above. And then not getting surgery on time so he could "enjoy the summer" is ridiculous. Hard to reconcile the fact he was so good, given he could be that unprofessional in other areas.
Controversial opinion time....I've always thought LeBron was the GOAT over MJ, and I actually think this more having watched the first two episodes.
Hear me out....the NBA wasn't as good in the 1990s. There were 7 new expansion teams The elite level (i.e. All Star) was comparable to today, but the overall standard in 2020 is way higher. Basketball is a proper international game now, and the money involved is so much higher, its hugely lifted the average talent level across the league. There are no "easy nights/opponents" like MJ had in the 1990s. People give modern stars sh*t over load management etc, but its a logical outcome of the much tougher grind during the regular season today. I also think the season length should be reduced for this reason, but that's for another thread...
LeBron is a much more rounded player, which appeals to me. He can really do it all in every position. Stat lines like MJ dropping 60 with 5 rebounds and 4 assists doesn't do it for me like a 35pt triple double from LeBron does, but that's a personal preference.
The other thing is longevity. LeBron made the first team All-NBA in his second year in the league, as a 20yr old, at a time when MJ was a college sophomore at North Carolina. LBJ took a terrible Cleveland team to the finals the next year, while MJ was still at college. Fast forward to the other end of his career, and LBJ is still one of the best players in the NBA at age 35. He'd have my vote for MVP this year over Giannis (narrowly), and without the virus suspension I think LA would've won the title. That's absurd after 17 seasons of excellence, and for me means his overall body of work is greater than MJ's.
MJ had a higher peak for sure, with 6 rings and never losing in Finals. But he also got knocked out of the playoffs a lot, especially in the 80s. LBJ went to 8 straight finals, and 9 in total. Winning rings with outstanding teams like the 90s Bulls is less impressive (to me) than dragging fairly poor teams to the finals year after year. Although the Miami teams LBJ won with were great. If LBJ wins a 4th title with LA, and 3 different teams overall, then it seals it I reckon.
@TeWaio said in NBA season 2019/20:
Am loving the Last Dance so far, even got the wife into it.
Jerry Krause gets a rough deal, he got treated like sh*t by the players and all he was trying to do was get the best players / maximum chance of winning by cutting deals, i.e. his exact job. Which he was excellent at. All the "lol ur really short and fat" nonsense, from MJ and others reflects badly on them IMO.
Pippen comes across as a knob given the crying over his contract as others have detailed above. And then not getting surgery on time so he could "enjoy the summer" is ridiculous. Hard to reconcile the fact he was so good, given he could be that unprofessional in other areas.
Controversial opinion time....I've always thought LeBron was the GOAT over MJ, and I actually think this more having watched the first two episodes.
Hear me out....the NBA wasn't as good in the 1990s. There were 7 new expansion teams The elite level (i.e. All NBA teams) was comparable to today, but the overall standard in 2020 is way higher. Basketball is a proper international game, and the money involved is so much higher, its hugely lifted the talent level across the league. There are no "easy nights/opponents" like MJ had in the 1990s. People give modern stars sh*t over load management etc, but its a logical outcome of the much tougher grind during the regular season today.
LeBron is also a much more rounded player, which appeals to me. He can really do it all in every position. Stat lines like MJ dropping 60 with 5 rebounds and 4 assists doesn't do it for me, whereas a 35pt triple double from LeBron does, but that's a personal preference.
The other thing is longevity. LeBron made the first team all NBA in his second year in the league, as a 20yr old, at a time when MJ was a college sophomore at North Carolina. LBJ took a terrible Cleveland team to the finals the next year, while MJ was still at college. Fast forward to the other end of his career and LBJ is still one of the best players in the NBA at age 35. He'd have my vote for MVP this year over Giannis, and without the virus suspension I think LA would've won the title this year. That's absurd, and for me means his overall body of work is greater than MJ's.
MJ had a higher peak, with 6 rings and never losing in Finals. But he also got knocked out of the playoffs a lot, especially in the 80s. LBJ went to 8 straight finals, and 9 in total. Winning rings with outstanding teams like the 90s Bulls is less impressive (to me) than dragging fairly poor teams to the finals year after year. Although the Miami teams LBJ won with were great. If LBJ wins a 4th title with LA, and 3 different teams overall, then it seals it I reckon.
I'm not going to attempt to unpack that (what a shit phrase), but I would say:
- It was a really good post ;
- I disagree with plenty of it; and
- I'd give my left nut to spend 8 hours in a pub debating it with you.
-
Am loving the Last Dance so far, even got the wife into it.
Jerry Krause gets a rough deal, he got treated like sh*t by the players and all he was trying to do was get the best players / maximum chance of winning by cutting deals, i.e. his exact job. Which he was excellent at. All the "lol ur really short and fat" nonsense, from MJ and others reflects badly on them IMO.
Pippen comes across as a knob given the crying over his contract as others have detailed above. And then not getting surgery on time so he could "enjoy the summer" is ridiculous. Hard to reconcile the fact he was so good, given he could be that unprofessional in other areas.
Controversial opinion time....I've always thought LeBron was the GOAT over MJ, and I actually think this more having watched the first two episodes.
Hear me out....the NBA wasn't as good in the 1990s. There were 7 new expansion teams The elite level (i.e. All Star) was comparable to today, but the overall standard in 2020 is way higher. Basketball is a proper international game now, and the money involved is so much higher, its hugely lifted the average talent level across the league. There are no "easy nights/opponents" like MJ had in the 1990s. People give modern stars sh*t over load management etc, but its a logical outcome of the much tougher grind during the regular season today. I also think the season length should be reduced for this reason, but that's for another thread...
LeBron is a much more rounded player, which appeals to me. He can really do it all in every position. Stat lines like MJ dropping 60 with 5 rebounds and 4 assists doesn't do it for me like a 35pt triple double from LeBron does, but that's a personal preference.
The other thing is longevity. LeBron made the first team All-NBA in his second year in the league, as a 20yr old, at a time when MJ was a college sophomore at North Carolina. LBJ took a terrible Cleveland team to the finals the next year, while MJ was still at college. Fast forward to the other end of his career, and LBJ is still one of the best players in the NBA at age 35. He'd have my vote for MVP this year over Giannis (narrowly), and without the virus suspension I think LA would've won the title. That's absurd after 17 seasons of excellence, and for me means his overall body of work is greater than MJ's.
MJ had a higher peak for sure, with 6 rings and never losing in Finals. But he also got knocked out of the playoffs a lot, especially in the 80s. LBJ went to 8 straight finals, and 9 in total. Winning rings with outstanding teams like the 90s Bulls is less impressive (to me) than dragging fairly poor teams to the finals year after year. Although the Miami teams LBJ won with were great. If LBJ wins a 4th title with LA, and 3 different teams overall, then it seals it I reckon.
-
You still need some sort of supporting cast and role players to win the title, or even make the playoffs. MJ averaged 30+ in the mid-80s but the Bulls were shit. It wasn't until Pippen started to contribute and Jackson arrived that they took that final leap.
One thing is certain is that LBJ has never had a coach as good as Phil Jackson.
-
Yeah what the last few posters said. The teams MJ had to beat in the finals were more than handy, and those he lost to previously were some of the greatest. Larry Bird said the Celtics team which MJ almost beat single-handedly, was the best they'd had, and considering how prolific they had been that's saying something. The Lakers, Celtics and Pistons teams of the late 80s were outstanding.
-
I'd say the only fairly ordinary teams MJ beat in the finals were the Blazers and the Supersonics. Two titles came against the outstanding Malone and Stockton Jazz, and he also had to beat Magic and the Lakers and the Barkley-led Suns who also featured KJ, Dan Majerle and Tom Chambers.
-
I'd say the only fairly ordinary teams MJ beat in the finals were the Blazers and the Supersonics. Two titles came against the outstanding Malone and Stockton Jazz, and he also had to beat Magic and the Lakers and the Barkley-led Suns who also featured KJ, Dan Majerle and Tom Chambers.
@shark I wouldn't call that Sonics team ordinary. They were a very good defensive team who kept MJ below his season/playoff average in the finals. I remember watching it and games 2 and 3 swung the series. Rodman went crazy on the boards.
The Lakers team was in decline by 1991. I got Sky TV to watch the NBA that year.
