NBA season 2019/20
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@canefan He and CB had a big spat. Sir Charles questioned his ethics and Pippen questioned Chucks' fat ass.
@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
@canefan He and CB had a big spat. Sir Charles questioned his ethics and Pippen questioned Chucks' fat ass.
Yeah, Wiki told me so. He was good for Portland so the deal worked out for them. Pippen said Charles was lazy, I guess he was telling the truth and his credibility was dangling from the bling on 6 of his fingers
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Am loving the Last Dance so far, even got the wife into it.
Jerry Krause gets a rough deal, he got treated like sh*t by the players and all he was trying to do was get the best players / maximum chance of winning by cutting deals, i.e. his exact job. Which he was excellent at. All the "lol ur really short and fat" nonsense, from MJ and others reflects badly on them IMO.
Pippen comes across as a knob given the crying over his contract as others have detailed above. And then not getting surgery on time so he could "enjoy the summer" is ridiculous. Hard to reconcile the fact he was so good, given he could be that unprofessional in other areas.
Controversial opinion time....I've always thought LeBron was the GOAT over MJ, and I actually think this more having watched the first two episodes.
Hear me out....the NBA wasn't as good in the 1990s. There were 7 new expansion teams The elite level (i.e. All Star) was comparable to today, but the overall standard in 2020 is way higher. Basketball is a proper international game now, and the money involved is so much higher, its hugely lifted the average talent level across the league. There are no "easy nights/opponents" like MJ had in the 1990s. People give modern stars sh*t over load management etc, but its a logical outcome of the much tougher grind during the regular season today. I also think the season length should be reduced for this reason, but that's for another thread...
LeBron is a much more rounded player, which appeals to me. He can really do it all in every position. Stat lines like MJ dropping 60 with 5 rebounds and 4 assists doesn't do it for me like a 35pt triple double from LeBron does, but that's a personal preference.
The other thing is longevity. LeBron made the first team All-NBA in his second year in the league, as a 20yr old, at a time when MJ was a college sophomore at North Carolina. LBJ took a terrible Cleveland team to the finals the next year, while MJ was still at college. Fast forward to the other end of his career, and LBJ is still one of the best players in the NBA at age 35. He'd have my vote for MVP this year over Giannis (narrowly), and without the virus suspension I think LA would've won the title. That's absurd after 17 seasons of excellence, and for me means his overall body of work is greater than MJ's.
MJ had a higher peak for sure, with 6 rings and never losing in Finals. But he also got knocked out of the playoffs a lot, especially in the 80s. LBJ went to 8 straight finals, and 9 in total. Winning rings with outstanding teams like the 90s Bulls is less impressive (to me) than dragging fairly poor teams to the finals year after year. Although the Miami teams LBJ won with were great. If LBJ wins a 4th title with LA, and 3 different teams overall, then it seals it I reckon.
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Am loving the Last Dance so far, even got the wife into it.
Jerry Krause gets a rough deal, he got treated like sh*t by the players and all he was trying to do was get the best players / maximum chance of winning by cutting deals, i.e. his exact job. Which he was excellent at. All the "lol ur really short and fat" nonsense, from MJ and others reflects badly on them IMO.
Pippen comes across as a knob given the crying over his contract as others have detailed above. And then not getting surgery on time so he could "enjoy the summer" is ridiculous. Hard to reconcile the fact he was so good, given he could be that unprofessional in other areas.
Controversial opinion time....I've always thought LeBron was the GOAT over MJ, and I actually think this more having watched the first two episodes.
Hear me out....the NBA wasn't as good in the 1990s. There were 7 new expansion teams The elite level (i.e. All Star) was comparable to today, but the overall standard in 2020 is way higher. Basketball is a proper international game now, and the money involved is so much higher, its hugely lifted the average talent level across the league. There are no "easy nights/opponents" like MJ had in the 1990s. People give modern stars sh*t over load management etc, but its a logical outcome of the much tougher grind during the regular season today. I also think the season length should be reduced for this reason, but that's for another thread...
LeBron is a much more rounded player, which appeals to me. He can really do it all in every position. Stat lines like MJ dropping 60 with 5 rebounds and 4 assists doesn't do it for me like a 35pt triple double from LeBron does, but that's a personal preference.
The other thing is longevity. LeBron made the first team All-NBA in his second year in the league, as a 20yr old, at a time when MJ was a college sophomore at North Carolina. LBJ took a terrible Cleveland team to the finals the next year, while MJ was still at college. Fast forward to the other end of his career, and LBJ is still one of the best players in the NBA at age 35. He'd have my vote for MVP this year over Giannis (narrowly), and without the virus suspension I think LA would've won the title. That's absurd after 17 seasons of excellence, and for me means his overall body of work is greater than MJ's.
MJ had a higher peak for sure, with 6 rings and never losing in Finals. But he also got knocked out of the playoffs a lot, especially in the 80s. LBJ went to 8 straight finals, and 9 in total. Winning rings with outstanding teams like the 90s Bulls is less impressive (to me) than dragging fairly poor teams to the finals year after year. Although the Miami teams LBJ won with were great. If LBJ wins a 4th title with LA, and 3 different teams overall, then it seals it I reckon.
@TeWaio said in NBA season 2019/20:
Am loving the Last Dance so far, even got the wife into it.
Jerry Krause gets a rough deal, he got treated like sh*t by the players and all he was trying to do was get the best players / maximum chance of winning by cutting deals, i.e. his exact job. Which he was excellent at. All the "lol ur really short and fat" nonsense, from MJ and others reflects badly on them IMO.
Pippen comes across as a knob given the crying over his contract as others have detailed above. And then not getting surgery on time so he could "enjoy the summer" is ridiculous. Hard to reconcile the fact he was so good, given he could be that unprofessional in other areas.
Controversial opinion time....I've always thought LeBron was the GOAT over MJ, and I actually think this more having watched the first two episodes.
Hear me out....the NBA wasn't as good in the 1990s. There were 7 new expansion teams The elite level (i.e. All NBA teams) was comparable to today, but the overall standard in 2020 is way higher. Basketball is a proper international game, and the money involved is so much higher, its hugely lifted the talent level across the league. There are no "easy nights/opponents" like MJ had in the 1990s. People give modern stars sh*t over load management etc, but its a logical outcome of the much tougher grind during the regular season today.
LeBron is also a much more rounded player, which appeals to me. He can really do it all in every position. Stat lines like MJ dropping 60 with 5 rebounds and 4 assists doesn't do it for me, whereas a 35pt triple double from LeBron does, but that's a personal preference.
The other thing is longevity. LeBron made the first team all NBA in his second year in the league, as a 20yr old, at a time when MJ was a college sophomore at North Carolina. LBJ took a terrible Cleveland team to the finals the next year, while MJ was still at college. Fast forward to the other end of his career and LBJ is still one of the best players in the NBA at age 35. He'd have my vote for MVP this year over Giannis, and without the virus suspension I think LA would've won the title this year. That's absurd, and for me means his overall body of work is greater than MJ's.
MJ had a higher peak, with 6 rings and never losing in Finals. But he also got knocked out of the playoffs a lot, especially in the 80s. LBJ went to 8 straight finals, and 9 in total. Winning rings with outstanding teams like the 90s Bulls is less impressive (to me) than dragging fairly poor teams to the finals year after year. Although the Miami teams LBJ won with were great. If LBJ wins a 4th title with LA, and 3 different teams overall, then it seals it I reckon.
I'm not going to attempt to unpack that (what a shit phrase), but I would say:
- It was a really good post ;
- I disagree with plenty of it; and
- I'd give my left nut to spend 8 hours in a pub debating it with you.
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Am loving the Last Dance so far, even got the wife into it.
Jerry Krause gets a rough deal, he got treated like sh*t by the players and all he was trying to do was get the best players / maximum chance of winning by cutting deals, i.e. his exact job. Which he was excellent at. All the "lol ur really short and fat" nonsense, from MJ and others reflects badly on them IMO.
Pippen comes across as a knob given the crying over his contract as others have detailed above. And then not getting surgery on time so he could "enjoy the summer" is ridiculous. Hard to reconcile the fact he was so good, given he could be that unprofessional in other areas.
Controversial opinion time....I've always thought LeBron was the GOAT over MJ, and I actually think this more having watched the first two episodes.
Hear me out....the NBA wasn't as good in the 1990s. There were 7 new expansion teams The elite level (i.e. All Star) was comparable to today, but the overall standard in 2020 is way higher. Basketball is a proper international game now, and the money involved is so much higher, its hugely lifted the average talent level across the league. There are no "easy nights/opponents" like MJ had in the 1990s. People give modern stars sh*t over load management etc, but its a logical outcome of the much tougher grind during the regular season today. I also think the season length should be reduced for this reason, but that's for another thread...
LeBron is a much more rounded player, which appeals to me. He can really do it all in every position. Stat lines like MJ dropping 60 with 5 rebounds and 4 assists doesn't do it for me like a 35pt triple double from LeBron does, but that's a personal preference.
The other thing is longevity. LeBron made the first team All-NBA in his second year in the league, as a 20yr old, at a time when MJ was a college sophomore at North Carolina. LBJ took a terrible Cleveland team to the finals the next year, while MJ was still at college. Fast forward to the other end of his career, and LBJ is still one of the best players in the NBA at age 35. He'd have my vote for MVP this year over Giannis (narrowly), and without the virus suspension I think LA would've won the title. That's absurd after 17 seasons of excellence, and for me means his overall body of work is greater than MJ's.
MJ had a higher peak for sure, with 6 rings and never losing in Finals. But he also got knocked out of the playoffs a lot, especially in the 80s. LBJ went to 8 straight finals, and 9 in total. Winning rings with outstanding teams like the 90s Bulls is less impressive (to me) than dragging fairly poor teams to the finals year after year. Although the Miami teams LBJ won with were great. If LBJ wins a 4th title with LA, and 3 different teams overall, then it seals it I reckon.
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You still need some sort of supporting cast and role players to win the title, or even make the playoffs. MJ averaged 30+ in the mid-80s but the Bulls were shit. It wasn't until Pippen started to contribute and Jackson arrived that they took that final leap.
One thing is certain is that LBJ has never had a coach as good as Phil Jackson.
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Yeah what the last few posters said. The teams MJ had to beat in the finals were more than handy, and those he lost to previously were some of the greatest. Larry Bird said the Celtics team which MJ almost beat single-handedly, was the best they'd had, and considering how prolific they had been that's saying something. The Lakers, Celtics and Pistons teams of the late 80s were outstanding.
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I'd say the only fairly ordinary teams MJ beat in the finals were the Blazers and the Supersonics. Two titles came against the outstanding Malone and Stockton Jazz, and he also had to beat Magic and the Lakers and the Barkley-led Suns who also featured KJ, Dan Majerle and Tom Chambers.
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I'd say the only fairly ordinary teams MJ beat in the finals were the Blazers and the Supersonics. Two titles came against the outstanding Malone and Stockton Jazz, and he also had to beat Magic and the Lakers and the Barkley-led Suns who also featured KJ, Dan Majerle and Tom Chambers.
@shark I wouldn't call that Sonics team ordinary. They were a very good defensive team who kept MJ below his season/playoff average in the finals. I remember watching it and games 2 and 3 swung the series. Rodman went crazy on the boards.
The Lakers team was in decline by 1991. I got Sky TV to watch the NBA that year.
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@shark I wouldn't call that Sonics team ordinary. They were a very good defensive team who kept MJ below his season/playoff average in the finals. I remember watching it and games 2 and 3 swung the series. Rodman went crazy on the boards.
The Lakers team was in decline by 1991. I got Sky TV to watch the NBA that year.
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@Hooroo There was a brief clip in Ep 1 showing the winning shots in the Bulls' first three-peat. When I watched the shot against the Suns it was like I went back in time 27 years and my stomach almost churned in the same way. I was back there. I was hopeful Barkley, KJ, Thunder Dan et al were good enough, and they had stayed in the series for sure, but I always knew a Jordan-lead Bulls team was never gonna lose. I'm sure they'll get into this later, but Barkley was either regarded as frontrunner or had already won the MVP that year and MJ had a point to prove.
@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
@Hooroo There was a brief clip in Ep 1 showing the winning shots in the Bulls' first three-peat. When I watched the shot against the Suns it was like I went back in time 27 years and my stomach almost churned in the same way. I was back there. I was hopeful Barkley, KJ, Thunder Dan et al were good enough, and they had stayed in the series for sure, but I always knew a Jordan-lead Bulls team was never gonna lose. I'm sure they'll get into this later, but Barkley was either regarded as frontrunner or had already won the MVP that year and MJ had a point to prove.
One of my favourite NBA Finals series. Suns were overall a better team in my view but the Bulls had the two best players in that series.
Richard Dumas is one of my favourite Suns players of all time. Amazing athlete.
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I'd say the only fairly ordinary teams MJ beat in the finals were the Blazers and the Supersonics. Two titles came against the outstanding Malone and Stockton Jazz, and he also had to beat Magic and the Lakers and the Barkley-led Suns who also featured KJ, Dan Majerle and Tom Chambers.
@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
I'd say the only fairly ordinary teams MJ beat in the finals were the Blazers and the Supersonics. Two titles came against the outstanding Malone and Stockton Jazz, and he also had to beat Magic and the Lakers and the Barkley-led Suns who also featured KJ, Dan Majerle and Tom Chambers.
Blazers aye?? They had 6 players that averaged double figures. They were a deeper team than the Bulls.
They lacked someone that had that ‘edge’ or killer instinct, but in terms of talent they were a damn good side.
The thing with the West at that time was that it was officially the end of the Magic Lakers dominant era and so it was transitioning to other sides who had been used to being beat by LA.
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@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
I'd say the only fairly ordinary teams MJ beat in the finals were the Blazers and the Supersonics. Two titles came against the outstanding Malone and Stockton Jazz, and he also had to beat Magic and the Lakers and the Barkley-led Suns who also featured KJ, Dan Majerle and Tom Chambers.
Blazers aye?? They had 6 players that averaged double figures. They were a deeper team than the Bulls.
They lacked someone that had that ‘edge’ or killer instinct, but in terms of talent they were a damn good side.
The thing with the West at that time was that it was officially the end of the Magic Lakers dominant era and so it was transitioning to other sides who had been used to being beat by LA.
@ACT-Crusader said in NBA season 2019/20:
@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
I'd say the only fairly ordinary teams MJ beat in the finals were the Blazers and the Supersonics. Two titles came against the outstanding Malone and Stockton Jazz, and he also had to beat Magic and the Lakers and the Barkley-led Suns who also featured KJ, Dan Majerle and Tom Chambers.
Blazers aye?? They had 6 players that averaged double figures. They were a deeper team than the Bulls.
They lacked someone that had that ‘edge’ or killer instinct, but in terms of talent they were a damn good side.
The thing with the West at that time was that it was officially the end of the Magic Lakers dominant era and so it was transitioning to other sides who had been used to being beat by LA.
The 1992 Portland starters were Drexler · K. Duckworth · J. Kersey · T. Porter · B. Williams. Pretty strong
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@ACT-Crusader said in NBA season 2019/20:
@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
I'd say the only fairly ordinary teams MJ beat in the finals were the Blazers and the Supersonics. Two titles came against the outstanding Malone and Stockton Jazz, and he also had to beat Magic and the Lakers and the Barkley-led Suns who also featured KJ, Dan Majerle and Tom Chambers.
Blazers aye?? They had 6 players that averaged double figures. They were a deeper team than the Bulls.
They lacked someone that had that ‘edge’ or killer instinct, but in terms of talent they were a damn good side.
The thing with the West at that time was that it was officially the end of the Magic Lakers dominant era and so it was transitioning to other sides who had been used to being beat by LA.
The 1992 Portland starters were Drexler · K. Duckworth · J. Kersey · T. Porter · B. Williams. Pretty strong
@canefan said in NBA season 2019/20:
@ACT-Crusader said in NBA season 2019/20:
@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
I'd say the only fairly ordinary teams MJ beat in the finals were the Blazers and the Supersonics. Two titles came against the outstanding Malone and Stockton Jazz, and he also had to beat Magic and the Lakers and the Barkley-led Suns who also featured KJ, Dan Majerle and Tom Chambers.
Blazers aye?? They had 6 players that averaged double figures. They were a deeper team than the Bulls.
They lacked someone that had that ‘edge’ or killer instinct, but in terms of talent they were a damn good side.
The thing with the West at that time was that it was officially the end of the Magic Lakers dominant era and so it was transitioning to other sides who had been used to being beat by LA.
The 1992 Portland starters were Drexler · K. Duckworth · J. Kersey · T. Porter · B. Williams. Pretty strong
And Cliff Robinson off the bench. A man that could put 50 on ya.
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@canefan And my favourite player at that time, the Big Smooth. Also McMillan and Hawkins.
I was cheering for Seattle.
@Bovidae said in NBA season 2019/20:
@canefan And my favourite player at that time, the Big Smooth. Also McMillan and Hawkins.
I was cheering for Seattle.
Still remember that Game 6 when Big Smooth couldn’t hit the side of a barn door. Cold as ice.
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@shark said in NBA season 2019/20:
I'd say the only fairly ordinary teams MJ beat in the finals were the Blazers and the Supersonics. Two titles came against the outstanding Malone and Stockton Jazz, and he also had to beat Magic and the Lakers and the Barkley-led Suns who also featured KJ, Dan Majerle and Tom Chambers.
Blazers aye?? They had 6 players that averaged double figures. They were a deeper team than the Bulls.
They lacked someone that had that ‘edge’ or killer instinct, but in terms of talent they were a damn good side.
The thing with the West at that time was that it was officially the end of the Magic Lakers dominant era and so it was transitioning to other sides who had been used to being beat by LA.
@ACT-Crusader None of that elevates them above ordinary.
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Anyway, the actual point I was making was that MJ had to beat some good teams. The cases being made for the Blazers and Sonics only speaks to that further. So I think it's more than fair to say MJ had his work cut out and that the 90s NBA wasn't weak compared to LeBron's era.
