Super Rugby 2020
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@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2020:
@Bovidae said in Super Rugby 2020:
However, a round-robin and SFs makes for a very short season (9-11 games). Not feasible for the broadcasters or NZR/RA to generate income for player salaries. Home and away games will increase the number of games broadcasted but the NZ teams have been vocal in not wanting to have 8 derby games each season in any new SR competition.
I wonder if they might change their tune if the trade off is far less travel.
It's only going to be trans- Ta$man travel. I don't think they would want to have an uneven comp where NZ teams play home and away derbies, Aust teams do the same, and then they play each other once. The criticism of the current format is that it is complicated as teams don't play the same teams each season so there is an element of luck in the draw. A round-robin solves that problem.
@Bovidae said in Super Rugby 2020:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2020:
@Bovidae said in Super Rugby 2020:
However, a round-robin and SFs makes for a very short season (9-11 games). Not feasible for the broadcasters or NZR/RA to generate income for player salaries. Home and away games will increase the number of games broadcasted but the NZ teams have been vocal in not wanting to have 8 derby games each season in any new SR competition.
I wonder if they might change their tune if the trade off is far less travel.
It's only going to be trans- Ta$man travel. I don't think they would want to have an uneven comp where NZ teams play home and away derbies, Aust teams do the same, and then they play each other once. The criticism of the current format is that it is complicated as teams don't play the same teams each season so there is an element of luck in the draw. A round-robin solves that problem.
I meant a reduction in travel compared to right now (ie no trips to Africa/Argie/Japan).
Why not just do a dual round robin? Play everyone twice.
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@Bovidae said in Super Rugby 2020:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2020:
@Bovidae said in Super Rugby 2020:
However, a round-robin and SFs makes for a very short season (9-11 games). Not feasible for the broadcasters or NZR/RA to generate income for player salaries. Home and away games will increase the number of games broadcasted but the NZ teams have been vocal in not wanting to have 8 derby games each season in any new SR competition.
I wonder if they might change their tune if the trade off is far less travel.
It's only going to be trans- Ta$man travel. I don't think they would want to have an uneven comp where NZ teams play home and away derbies, Aust teams do the same, and then they play each other once. The criticism of the current format is that it is complicated as teams don't play the same teams each season so there is an element of luck in the draw. A round-robin solves that problem.
I meant a reduction in travel compared to right now (ie no trips to Africa/Argie/Japan).
Why not just do a dual round robin? Play everyone twice.
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@KiwiMurph 8 team comp, unless they resurrect Force, means 16 weeks. Should get rid of bye weekends, and just allow bigger squads.
@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2020:
@KiwiMurph 8 team comp, unless they resurrect Force, means 16 weeks. Should get rid of bye weekends, and just allow bigger squads.
8 team comp means a 14 week comp - so a couple of 'bye' weeks is the shot I'd say.
This is also interim only I think, the physicality of NZ conference is super demanding on the players. It's one of the things they tried to avoid.
Also, this hopefully drive positive change in the Aussies being exposed to ongoing top level competition, week in week out. Will reset the benchmarks (and maybe wear them out for the bledisloe)
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@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2020:
@KiwiMurph 8 team comp, unless they resurrect Force, means 16 weeks. Should get rid of bye weekends, and just allow bigger squads.
8 team comp means a 14 week comp - so a couple of 'bye' weeks is the shot I'd say.
This is also interim only I think, the physicality of NZ conference is super demanding on the players. It's one of the things they tried to avoid.
Also, this hopefully drive positive change in the Aussies being exposed to ongoing top level competition, week in week out. Will reset the benchmarks (and maybe wear them out for the bledisloe)
@nzzp On your last point, Australia has had some good U20 and school boy teams in the last few years. Add that to Rennie coaching and holding the Bledisloe doesn't look so assured leading up to the next RWC.
Waratahs are rebuilding this year and the Reds are coming along nicely.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2020:
The better way to do it is having three or four separate competitions (maybe 5 or 6) with intrapool play followed by a short round robin/crossovers (if time) and finals for a few teams.
I'd have 5 NZ super teams, 5 SA, a 5 team Aus comp with one Pacific Island team or get the Force back, one Japan pool, then possibly an Argentinian/US pool.
Then take 10 teams to a final series for the Super Trophy Championship.
The Super Cup/Plate would be played for by the 10 teams under that.
no disrespect. but yuck.
The breaking up of the competition has been a big factor in the death of Super Rugby. And bringing in more teams. I have zero interest in the Japanese, or the Argentinians, who just add hassle.
Whether it would change your mind or not, I'm not sure I explained it the way I meant either - NZ teams would play each other in the NZ competition first (there is no reason why we couldn't provincial unions here either I guess). From those games (I imagine home and away), the top two would go through to the next stage which involves play offs with teams from other countries.
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Whether it would change your mind or not, I'm not sure I explained it the way I meant either - NZ teams would play each other in the NZ competition first (there is no reason why we couldn't provincial unions here either I guess). From those games (I imagine home and away), the top two would go through to the next stage which involves play offs with teams from other countries.
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2020:
Whether it would change your mind or not, I'm not sure I explained it the way I meant either - NZ teams would play each other in the NZ competition first (there is no reason why we couldn't provincial unions here either I guess). From those games (I imagine home and away), the top two would go through to the next stage which involves play offs with teams from other countries.
I'm all about simple. A simple format people understand.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2020:
Whether it would change your mind or not, I'm not sure I explained it the way I meant either - NZ teams would play each other in the NZ competition first (there is no reason why we couldn't provincial unions here either I guess). From those games (I imagine home and away), the top two would go through to the next stage which involves play offs with teams from other countries.
I'm all about simple. A simple format people understand.
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2020:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2020:
Whether it would change your mind or not, I'm not sure I explained it the way I meant either - NZ teams would play each other in the NZ competition first (there is no reason why we couldn't provincial unions here either I guess). From those games (I imagine home and away), the top two would go through to the next stage which involves play offs with teams from other countries.
I'm all about simple. A simple format people understand.
Why isn't that simple? The best two domestic teams go on to Super rugby finals, the next two best go to Super plate (D2 equivalent).
We'd still get plenty of local derbies with a clear path to qualify for the international games, and could get some Japan money.
If it's not that, then I'd suggest we just replace SA with Japan, because I doubt that a transtasman competition will be valuable enough to get enough TV dollars.
Even then, I'm not sure we'd be OK without SA and the money they bring to a broadcasting deal.
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because it's a comp. and then another comp!
And people will whinge that the Hurricanes are better then either of the japanese teams, why aren't they playing finals? etc etc same arguments you see now
I want a simple play each other once, top sides, whoever they are and wherever they come from, play finals.
Japan only works for me if it's their Top League sides. The Sunwolves are dogshit, and made up of guys not good enough to get contracts elsewhere
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because it's a comp. and then another comp!
And people will whinge that the Hurricanes are better then either of the japanese teams, why aren't they playing finals? etc etc same arguments you see now
I want a simple play each other once, top sides, whoever they are and wherever they come from, play finals.
Japan only works for me if it's their Top League sides. The Sunwolves are dogshit, and made up of guys not good enough to get contracts elsewhere
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2020:
Japan only works for me if it's their Top League sides. The Sunwolves are dogshit, and made up of guys not good enough to get contracts elsewhere
problem was it didnt appear form the outset JR rugby were invested in making the SW a success, either on the field or financially...meaning it was doomed to fail from the start.
If we get buy in form JR, all the better
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because it's a comp. and then another comp!
And people will whinge that the Hurricanes are better then either of the japanese teams, why aren't they playing finals? etc etc same arguments you see now
I want a simple play each other once, top sides, whoever they are and wherever they come from, play finals.
Japan only works for me if it's their Top League sides. The Sunwolves are dogshit, and made up of guys not good enough to get contracts elsewhere
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2020:
because it's a comp. and then another comp!
And people will whinge that the Hurricanes are better then either of the japanese teams, why aren't they playing finals? etc etc same arguments you see now
True, but fuck Hurricanes supporters anyway (seriously, I see this point).
I want a simple play each other once, top sides, whoever they are and wherever they come from, play finals.
This would be way nicer, but we might need fewer teams - even from NZ.
Japan only works for me if it's their Top League sides. The Sunwolves are dogshit, and made up of guys not good enough to get contracts elsewhere
I agree about this - I'd promote five (historically strong) teams from across the country (assuming SA was replaced by Japan), so probably Panasonic, Kobe, Suntory, then two from Toshiba, Toyota, Yamaha, Kubota. Ideally games would be in major centers, so Tokyo (Panasonic [north], Suntory [west], Toshiba [west] or Kubota [east]), Nagoya (Toyota), and Kobe (Kobelco). I'd probably leave out Coca Cola and Sanix (Fukuoka) plus Yamaha etc because they are from smaller centres.
By doing so, Japan could probably make its competition into three 5 team pools - 5 play super rugby, 5 in white pool, 5 in red pool (these are for the Top league), with one dropping out.
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so it's agreed, we're dropping the Highlanders? And moving the Crusaders to Dunedin to save money on a new stadium? Done
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15 team comp. Round Robin and finals (top 6)
Harbour
Auckland
Waikato
Taranaki
Wellington
Ta$man
Canty
Otago
And 2 out of BOP, HB, and Counties.Qld, NSW, Canberra, Melbourne, Perth
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2020:
15 team comp. Round Robin and finals (top 6)
Harbour
Auckland
Waikato
Taranaki
Wellington
Ta$man
Canty
Otago
And 2 out of BOP, HB, and Counties.Qld, NSW, Canberra, Melbourne, Perth
Never work.
With only 10 NZ teams how could you transparently stop Ta$man ever getting to challenge for the Ranfurly Shield?
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2020:
15 team comp. Round Robin and finals (top 6)
Harbour
Auckland
Waikato
Taranaki
Wellington
Ta$man
Canty
Otago
And 2 out of BOP, HB, and Counties.Qld, NSW, Canberra, Melbourne, Perth
Never work.
With only 10 NZ teams how could you transparently stop Ta$man ever getting to challenge for the Ranfurly Shield?
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It's unsurprising how we got to this. Super Rugby was an awesome product and got diluted as a product in the search for additional revenue. The faulty formula of more teams = more money + same quality product.
@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2020:
It's unsurprising how we got to this. Super Rugby was an awesome product and got diluted as a product in the search for additional revenue. The faulty formula of more teams = more money + same quality product.
This +1.
Super rugby was actually super when it was the super 12. With the best players not in Europe.
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makes sense, especially from the perspective of you can only pay so many people
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I say keep super rugby, Join with Australia's 5, maybe one more NZ team and maybe an Islands team based in Auckland. The best time was when Super Rugby wasn't too long and the All Blacks joined the NPC for the business end before going on their end of year tour.
