RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B)
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I guess Ioane’s mistake was having only a minor injury and coming back too quickly. Should have taken half the season (or most of the last year) off and gone straight in the 23 like Crotty and SBW.
Much would have preferred our strongest midfield of ALB-Goodhue.
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Ioane will have a few chances to play himself back into form and confidence in pool games.
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@taniwharugby said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:
Makes you wonder what our backline would have been like if DMac hadn't gotten injured...his injury opened the door for Mounga
DMac's introduction was the start of the dual playmaker gameplan so I think they would have persevered with that combo. Hansen confirmed last night on Getting Grilled with Marshy that they had to reassess the selections once he was injured. DMac was also their 3rd halfback cover for the RWC.
@Bovidae said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:
@taniwharugby said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:
Makes you wonder what our backline would have been like if DMac hadn't gotten injured...his injury opened the door for Mounga
DMac's introduction was the start of the dual playmaker gameplan so I think they would have persevered with that combo. Hansen confirmed last night on Getting Grilled with Marshy that they had to reassess the selections once he was injured. DMac was also their 3rd halfback cover for the RWC.
I agree.
I think we would’ve seen
10-Barrett
15-McKenzie
22-Mo’unga -
Taylor around 50ish
Props around 65ish
Barrett around 70
Frizell 60ish
Perenara 60ish
SBW and Smith 65ish@Bones said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Taylor around 50ish
Props around 65ish
Barrett around 70
Frizell 60ish
Perenara 60ish
SBW and Smith 65ishAgree with all of those except Frizell. I reckon he gets 10 at the most.
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@Bones said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Taylor around 50ish
Props around 65ish
Barrett around 70
Frizell 60ish
Perenara 60ish
SBW and Smith 65ishAgree with all of those except Frizell. I reckon he gets 10 at the most.
@ACT-Crusader yeah, well, you can go stand in the Chris corner when SF proves everyone wrong!
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....but what a 10 it will be
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Makes you wonder what our backline would have been like if DMac hadn't gotten injured...his injury opened the door for Mounga
I am really not sure about that. I think for all the talk about dual playmakers bottom line is when Beaudan is at 10 backs are static and his tactical kicking is not that great. However he is our best open field player and from the back he has to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Mounga is a better option than both DMac and BB at 10. Not sure that DMac cracks the 23 if fit but I think he would be in the squad before either Jordie or Reiko.
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Compared to the AB team that played SA in Wellington only 5 starters remain (Moody, Whitelock, Read, Mo’unga and B Barrett). 16 players in the 23. A different picture for the Boks.
@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Compared to the AB team that played SA in Wellington only 5 starters remain (Moody, Whitelock, Read, Mo’unga and B Barrett). 16 players in the 23. A different picture for the Boks.
I'm a bit hard of understanding
5 in the run on 15
plus Max 8 on the bench
Equals 13How do you get 16 in the 23?
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@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Compared to the AB team that played SA in Wellington only 5 starters remain (Moody, Whitelock, Read, Mo’unga and B Barrett). 16 players in the 23. A different picture for the Boks.
I'm a bit hard of understanding
5 in the run on 15
plus Max 8 on the bench
Equals 13How do you get 16 in the 23?
The 7 different players in the 23 are:
Franks, Fifita and Papalii - not in RWC squad
BBBR, Todd, Ioane and Goodhue - not selected in this game.5 players will start in both games while the others either go from starters to reserves, or vice versa (16 in total).
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The 7 different players in the 23 are:
Franks, Fifita and Papalii - not in RWC squad
BBBR, Todd, Ioane and Goodhue - not selected in this game.5 players will start in both games while the others either go from starters to reserves, or vice versa (16 in total).
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I am really not sure about that. I think for all the talk about dual playmakers bottom line is when Beaudan is at 10 backs are static and his tactical kicking is not that great. However he is our best open field player and from the back he has to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Mounga is a better option than both DMac and BB at 10. Not sure that DMac cracks the 23 if fit but I think he would be in the squad before either Jordie or Reiko.
@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I am really not sure about that. I think for all the talk about dual playmakers bottom line is when Beaudan is at 10 backs are static and his tactical kicking is not that great. However he is our best open field player and from the back he has to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Mounga is a better option than both DMac and BB at 10. Not sure that DMac cracks the 23 if fit but I think he would be in the squad before either Jordie or Reiko.
Just wondering what you're basing this on. Mo'unga's only half decent start at 10 for the ABs was Bled 2. Every other game he's struggled, and was like a deer in the headlights against SA in Wellington when the pack was on the back foot.
Beauden on the other hand has absolutely carved teams to shreds at 10 on many occasions. He is also a much better defender and has far more experience in the big games when the heat is on.
I really hope Mo'unga steps up tomorrow, because he'll have to based on past performances starting.
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@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I am really not sure about that. I think for all the talk about dual playmakers bottom line is when Beaudan is at 10 backs are static and his tactical kicking is not that great. However he is our best open field player and from the back he has to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Mounga is a better option than both DMac and BB at 10. Not sure that DMac cracks the 23 if fit but I think he would be in the squad before either Jordie or Reiko.
Just wondering what you're basing this on. Mo'unga's only half decent start at 10 for the ABs was Bled 2. Every other game he's struggled, and was like a deer in the headlights against SA in Wellington when the pack was on the back foot.
Beauden on the other hand has absolutely carved teams to shreds at 10 on many occasions. He is also a much better defender and has far more experience in the big games when the heat is on.
I really hope Mo'unga steps up tomorrow, because he'll have to based on past performances starting.
@No-Quarter said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I am really not sure about that. I think for all the talk about dual playmakers bottom line is when Beaudan is at 10 backs are static and his tactical kicking is not that great. However he is our best open field player and from the back he has to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Mounga is a better option than both DMac and BB at 10. Not sure that DMac cracks the 23 if fit but I think he would be in the squad before either Jordie or Reiko.
Just wondering what you're basing this on. Mo'unga's only half decent start at 10 for the ABs was Bled 2. Every other game he's struggled, and was like a deer in the headlights against SA in Wellington when the pack was on the back foot.
Beauden on the other hand has absolutely carved teams to shreds at 10 on many occasions. He is also a much better defender and has far more experience in the big games when the heat is on.
I really hope Mo'unga steps up tomorrow, because he'll have to based on past performances starting.
Richie was better in the second half of the Wellington test, and the pair continued their improvement in Bled 2 . Besides the fact that we should have won the game despite some abject handling and finishing, we let them in right at the end but they had little idea on attack. We must keep the faith
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@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I am really not sure about that. I think for all the talk about dual playmakers bottom line is when Beaudan is at 10 backs are static and his tactical kicking is not that great. However he is our best open field player and from the back he has to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Mounga is a better option than both DMac and BB at 10. Not sure that DMac cracks the 23 if fit but I think he would be in the squad before either Jordie or Reiko.
Just wondering what you're basing this on. Mo'unga's only half decent start at 10 for the ABs was Bled 2. Every other game he's struggled, and was like a deer in the headlights against SA in Wellington when the pack was on the back foot.
Beauden on the other hand has absolutely carved teams to shreds at 10 on many occasions. He is also a much better defender and has far more experience in the big games when the heat is on.
I really hope Mo'unga steps up tomorrow, because he'll have to based on past performances starting.
Basing on the fact that since Lions series BB struggled to get backline moving and struggles with consistent tactical kicking. Mounga looks to be more naturally suited to the 10 jersey based on the form he has shown in Super Rugby and I and the selectors believe that he can replicate it going forward. I think BB carves up way more effectively from the back and always has imho.
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@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I am really not sure about that. I think for all the talk about dual playmakers bottom line is when Beaudan is at 10 backs are static and his tactical kicking is not that great. However he is our best open field player and from the back he has to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Mounga is a better option than both DMac and BB at 10. Not sure that DMac cracks the 23 if fit but I think he would be in the squad before either Jordie or Reiko.
Just wondering what you're basing this on. Mo'unga's only half decent start at 10 for the ABs was Bled 2. Every other game he's struggled, and was like a deer in the headlights against SA in Wellington when the pack was on the back foot.
Beauden on the other hand has absolutely carved teams to shreds at 10 on many occasions. He is also a much better defender and has far more experience in the big games when the heat is on.
I really hope Mo'unga steps up tomorrow, because he'll have to based on past performances starting.
@No-Quarter said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I am really not sure about that. I think for all the talk about dual playmakers bottom line is when Beaudan is at 10 backs are static and his tactical kicking is not that great. However he is our best open field player and from the back he has to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Mounga is a better option than both DMac and BB at 10. Not sure that DMac cracks the 23 if fit but I think he would be in the squad before either Jordie or Reiko.
Just wondering what you're basing this on. Mo'unga's only half decent start at 10 for the ABs was Bled 2. Every other game he's struggled, and was like a deer in the headlights against SA in Wellington when the pack was on the back foot.
Beauden on the other hand has absolutely carved teams to shreds at 10 on many occasions. He is also a much better defender and has far more experience in the big games when the heat is on.
I really hope Mo'unga steps up tomorrow, because he'll have to based on past performances starting.
Has he though?
Barrett’s running game is what has been a standout. His try scoring record is excellent. But I don’t think he is a natural playmaker and agree with @DMX that he hasn’t been able to unleash the attack. IMO he is far more dangerous when he is being used with space. I love it when he plays fullback for that very reason.
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Basing on the fact that since Lions series BB struggled to get backline moving and struggles with consistent tactical kicking. Mounga looks to be more naturally suited to the 10 jersey based on the form he has shown in Super Rugby and I and the selectors believe that he can replicate it going forward. I think BB carves up way more effectively from the back and always has imho.
@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Basing on the fact that since Lions series BB struggled to get backline moving and struggles with consistent tactical kicking. Mounga looks to be more naturally suited to the 10 jersey based on the form he has shown in Super Rugby and I and the selectors believe that he can replicate it going forward. I think BB carves up way more effectively from the back and always has imho.
My issue is Mo'unga's lack of experience at test level. A lot of players carve up Super rugby but struggle at the next level up. So far in his career he's looked great when his forwards are bitch slapping the opposition pack all over the park (nearly every Crusaders game, Bled 2) but has struggled when his forwards are on the back foot (Crusaders vs Lions, Wellington SA test).
He has a huge future but RWC's are not for the faint of heart, I don't really think he has enough runs on the board at this stage of his career. I think if he shits the bed against SA we'll revert to Beauden at 10 and BFA at 15, so this is a good opportunity to test him without too much on the line.
@ACT-Crusader I do agree that Beauden is awesome at 15 with the extra space, in fact I think that position suits him better. But I'm worried about having a rookie at 10.
I also think people forget that some of our comfortable wins over the last 4 years have actually been tight tests that Beauden has broken open by creating or scoring crucial tries that have broken the back of the opposition.
Edit - just to be clear, I really do want him to go well as the dual pivots gives us attacking options all over the park which would be an absolute nightmare to defend against.
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@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Basing on the fact that since Lions series BB struggled to get backline moving and struggles with consistent tactical kicking. Mounga looks to be more naturally suited to the 10 jersey based on the form he has shown in Super Rugby and I and the selectors believe that he can replicate it going forward. I think BB carves up way more effectively from the back and always has imho.
My issue is Mo'unga's lack of experience at test level. A lot of players carve up Super rugby but struggle at the next level up. So far in his career he's looked great when his forwards are bitch slapping the opposition pack all over the park (nearly every Crusaders game, Bled 2) but has struggled when his forwards are on the back foot (Crusaders vs Lions, Wellington SA test).
He has a huge future but RWC's are not for the faint of heart, I don't really think he has enough runs on the board at this stage of his career. I think if he shits the bed against SA we'll revert to Beauden at 10 and BFA at 15, so this is a good opportunity to test him without too much on the line.
@ACT-Crusader I do agree that Beauden is awesome at 15 with the extra space, in fact I think that position suits him better. But I'm worried about having a rookie at 10.
I also think people forget that some of our comfortable wins over the last 4 years have actually been tight tests that Beauden has broken open by creating or scoring crucial tries that have broken the back of the opposition.
Edit - just to be clear, I really do want him to go well as the dual pivots gives us attacking options all over the park which would be an absolute nightmare to defend against.
@No-Quarter all good. I think he’ll be fine. I think all of us can appreciate what you are saying. I’m sure we all have a player (or players) that when we see their name on the team sheet we get worried about ‘being exposed’, ‘not up to’, ‘lacking experience’, ‘what’s he done lately’, ‘remember X test’ etc.
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@No-Quarter all good. I think he’ll be fine. I think all of us can appreciate what you are saying. I’m sure we all have a player (or players) that when we see their name on the team sheet we get worried about ‘being exposed’, ‘not up to’, ‘lacking experience’, ‘what’s he done lately’, ‘remember X test’ etc.
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@No-Quarter all good. I think he’ll be fine. I think all of us can appreciate what you are saying. I’m sure we all have a player (or players) that when we see their name on the team sheet we get worried about ‘being exposed’, ‘not up to’, ‘lacking experience’, ‘what’s he done lately’, ‘remember X test’ etc.
I hear you. I'm much less concerned about the backs against SA than I am about the forwards dominating.
The two opensides thing is still quite new for us
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@No-Quarter all good. I think he’ll be fine. I think all of us can appreciate what you are saying. I’m sure we all have a player (or players) that when we see their name on the team sheet we get worried about ‘being exposed’, ‘not up to’, ‘lacking experience’, ‘what’s he done lately’, ‘remember X test’ etc.
I hear you. I'm much less concerned about the backs against SA than I am about the forwards dominating.
The two opensides thing is still quite new for us
@Hooroo said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@No-Quarter all good. I think he’ll be fine. I think all of us can appreciate what you are saying. I’m sure we all have a player (or players) that when we see their name on the team sheet we get worried about ‘being exposed’, ‘not up to’, ‘lacking experience’, ‘what’s he done lately’, ‘remember X test’ etc.
I hear you. I'm much less concerned about the backs against SA than I am about the forwards dominating.
The two opensides thing is still quite new for us
I don’t really see Ardie and Cane as two opensides per se because their games are quite different. I’m more worried about the combination and that being relatively new.
