World Rugby Board elections
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To be honest I was quite surprised at Hansen saying that. Not in the traditional Kiwi "get on with it and just beat the bastards next time' manner. Nor is there any real precedence for an official apology. I've seen refs own up to a howler a few times and this would have a been a good candidate for such. not that it makes any difference. You lot know it was the wrong decision, we know it was the wrong decision. It happens. Move on.
In any other circumstance, I 'd agree. But this was a once in 12 year event, the dying minutes of a drawn test series where a player makes an obvious infringement, is whistled then the penalty is withdrawn with no explanation. If SBW had somehow gotten away with a yellow then I'd be surprised if WR didn't come out and make a statement.
If there is any conspiracy it's not the decision itself (mistakes happen however dodgy they appear), it's the lack of acknowledgement that there was any issue from any quarter outside the small NZ media bubble. Pure speculation but had the roles been reversed (Lions dominant first test win, red card and narrow loss in second then winning until the dying minutes of the 3rd until a decision miraculously and incorrectly is reversed to go the ABs way leading to a sister-kissing farce) it would go down as a massive controversy rather than swept under the rug.
@mofitzy_ said in World Rugby Board elections:
If there is any conspiracy it's not the decision itself (mistakes happen however dodgy they appear), it's the lack of acknowledgement that there was any issue from any quarter outside the small NZ media bubble. Pure speculation but had the roles been reversed (Lions dominant first test win, red card and narrow loss in second then winning until the dying minutes of the 3rd until a decision miraculously and incorrectly is reversed to go the ABs way leading to a sister-kissing farce) it would go down as a massive controversy rather than swept under the rug.
If the reverse had happened, irreversible damage to the game would have been done. The end of it would have never have been heard. Ever.
The only thing I didn't like about Hansen's comments is that they weren't direct enough. It wasn't howler. It was a fix. There isn't even any question.
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@mofitzy_ said in World Rugby Board elections:
If there is any conspiracy it's not the decision itself (mistakes happen however dodgy they appear), it's the lack of acknowledgement that there was any issue from any quarter outside the small NZ media bubble. Pure speculation but had the roles been reversed (Lions dominant first test win, red card and narrow loss in second then winning until the dying minutes of the 3rd until a decision miraculously and incorrectly is reversed to go the ABs way leading to a sister-kissing farce) it would go down as a massive controversy rather than swept under the rug.
If the reverse had happened, irreversible damage to the game would have been done. The end of it would have never have been heard. Ever.
The only thing I didn't like about Hansen's comments is that they weren't direct enough. It wasn't howler. It was a fix. There isn't even any question.
@MajorRage said in World Rugby Board elections:
@mofitzy_ said in World Rugby Board elections:
If there is any conspiracy it's not the decision itself (mistakes happen however dodgy they appear), it's the lack of acknowledgement that there was any issue from any quarter outside the small NZ media bubble. Pure speculation but had the roles been reversed (Lions dominant first test win, red card and narrow loss in second then winning until the dying minutes of the 3rd until a decision miraculously and incorrectly is reversed to go the ABs way leading to a sister-kissing farce) it would go down as a massive controversy rather than swept under the rug.
If the reverse had happened, irreversible damage to the game would have been done. The end of it would have never have been heard. Ever.
The only thing I didn't like about Hansen's comments is that they weren't direct enough. It wasn't howler. It was a fix. There isn't even any question.
Deans did score!
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@MajorRage said in World Rugby Board elections:
@mofitzy_ said in World Rugby Board elections:
If there is any conspiracy it's not the decision itself (mistakes happen however dodgy they appear), it's the lack of acknowledgement that there was any issue from any quarter outside the small NZ media bubble. Pure speculation but had the roles been reversed (Lions dominant first test win, red card and narrow loss in second then winning until the dying minutes of the 3rd until a decision miraculously and incorrectly is reversed to go the ABs way leading to a sister-kissing farce) it would go down as a massive controversy rather than swept under the rug.
If the reverse had happened, irreversible damage to the game would have been done. The end of it would have never have been heard. Ever.
The only thing I didn't like about Hansen's comments is that they weren't direct enough. It wasn't howler. It was a fix. There isn't even any question.
Deans did score!
@Catogrande That's different, as that went against us ...
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@mofitzy_ said in World Rugby Board elections:
If there is any conspiracy it's not the decision itself (mistakes happen however dodgy they appear), it's the lack of acknowledgement that there was any issue from any quarter outside the small NZ media bubble. Pure speculation but had the roles been reversed (Lions dominant first test win, red card and narrow loss in second then winning until the dying minutes of the 3rd until a decision miraculously and incorrectly is reversed to go the ABs way leading to a sister-kissing farce) it would go down as a massive controversy rather than swept under the rug.
If the reverse had happened, irreversible damage to the game would have been done. The end of it would have never have been heard. Ever.
The only thing I didn't like about Hansen's comments is that they weren't direct enough. It wasn't howler. It was a fix. There isn't even any question.
@MajorRage said in World Rugby Board elections:
@mofitzy_ said in World Rugby Board elections:
If there is any conspiracy it's not the decision itself (mistakes happen however dodgy they appear), it's the lack of acknowledgement that there was any issue from any quarter outside the small NZ media bubble. Pure speculation but had the roles been reversed (Lions dominant first test win, red card and narrow loss in second then winning until the dying minutes of the 3rd until a decision miraculously and incorrectly is reversed to go the ABs way leading to a sister-kissing farce) it would go down as a massive controversy rather than swept under the rug.
If the reverse had happened, irreversible damage to the game would have been done. The end of it would have never have been heard. Ever.
The only thing I didn't like about Hansen's comments is that they weren't direct enough. It wasn't howler. It was a fix. There isn't even any question.
Any publicity ...
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@Machpants @MajorRage
On the Ken Owens offside and the conspiracy theory. Firstly I agree it was offside and it was a penalty. Tough for you guys but move on. Second the "We have a deal" conspiracy. Here you have to accept that English is not Poite's first language. In French it would have been an accord, meaning an agreement and in French the use of the auxiliary verb avoir (to have) is used in many different examples. To say we are in agreement in French would have a literal translation of we have an agreement (accord/deal).
So balls up yes. Conspiracy to deny NZ their just rewards, no.
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@Machpants @MajorRage
On the Ken Owens offside and the conspiracy theory. Firstly I agree it was offside and it was a penalty. Tough for you guys but move on. Second the "We have a deal" conspiracy. Here you have to accept that English is not Poite's first language. In French it would have been an accord, meaning an agreement and in French the use of the auxiliary verb avoir (to have) is used in many different examples. To say we are in agreement in French would have a literal translation of we have an agreement (accord/deal).
So balls up yes. Conspiracy to deny NZ their just rewards, no.
@Catogrande nup, bullshit.
If he blows the whistle immediately and calls it accidental, scrum black, I accept it.
He didn’t. He blew penalty, the right call. Tough for the lions but that’s the rules. Same as we had the prior week when the lions player jumped to catch the ball and penalty for tackle on the air. Rules are rules and it means penalty. Eat it, deal with it.
A week later same again, opposite direction. However this times the two officials literally conspire to overturn the correct ruling. I don’t give a shit about the we have a deal. It was a stone cold penalty and those two fuckheads invented bullshit to change it. Right in front of everybody.
A stone cold, lay down misere fix.
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@Catogrande nup, bullshit.
If he blows the whistle immediately and calls it accidental, scrum black, I accept it.
He didn’t. He blew penalty, the right call. Tough for the lions but that’s the rules. Same as we had the prior week when the lions player jumped to catch the ball and penalty for tackle on the air. Rules are rules and it means penalty. Eat it, deal with it.
A week later same again, opposite direction. However this times the two officials literally conspire to overturn the correct ruling. I don’t give a shit about the we have a deal. It was a stone cold penalty and those two fuckheads invented bullshit to change it. Right in front of everybody.
A stone cold, lay down misere fix.
@MajorRage said in World Rugby Board elections:
A stone cold, lay down misere fix.
I'm somewhere between that and @Catogrande . I don't think the refs were 'got to', but they sure as hell bottled it and didn't want to make a match defining call that cost the Lions the draw. Same thing with Wayne Barnes - in pressure moments, referees swallow their whistles and won't make the calls they should make.
I'm still pissed at TJP flapping around at that scrum instead of getting the ball out and giving us the chance to win the damn game and series, and overcome the mistake. Flapanara was appropriate that night, no composure at all
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@MajorRage said in World Rugby Board elections:
A stone cold, lay down misere fix.
I'm somewhere between that and @Catogrande . I don't think the refs were 'got to', but they sure as hell bottled it and didn't want to make a match defining call that cost the Lions the draw. Same thing with Wayne Barnes - in pressure moments, referees swallow their whistles and won't make the calls they should make.
I'm still pissed at TJP flapping around at that scrum instead of getting the ball out and giving us the chance to win the damn game and series, and overcome the mistake. Flapanara was appropriate that night, no composure at all
@nzzp said in World Rugby Board elections:
I'm still pissed at TJP flapping around at that scrum instead of getting the ball out and giving us the chance to win the damn game and series, and overcome the mistake. Flapanara was appropriate that night, no composure at all
I've always thought that, if Smith plays every minute of that series, we win. TJP was fucking terrible.
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The same leadership and genius that had us bundled out in the semi two years later.
@antipodean said in World Rugby Board elections:
The same leadership and genius that had us bundled out in the semi two years later.
in hindsight, Hansen stayed on 2 years too long. That Lions series we go abused by injuries and didn't do ourselves favours with the refs. I'm still dark on Kaino copping a yellow in Test 3 ... just so tough.
Anyway, here's hoping Foster makes a good fist of it when he gets a chance, and our playing ranks swell as players stay in NZ. Always cause for optimism!
At the RWC, by the way, we were the only Tier 1 nation that didn't select their best players and make exceptions for good players playing overseas. So in one world we were a weakened side, up against England, SA, Aus, Wales and Ireland who selected the best available players. I woulnd't change it, as it'd wreck rugby here, but it's something to contemplate
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Wasn't it also the final scrum where the genius move off of it was to hit up the incredible hulk known as Israel Dagg into the teeth of the Lions defense?
@KiwiMurph said in World Rugby Board elections:
Wasn't it also the final scrum where the genius move off of it was to hit up the incredible hulk known as Israel Dagg into the teeth of the Lions defense?
Hey fuck you I'd almost forgotten that. Scrum in their half.
"Hey shall we do the move?"
"Oh shit yeah, great idea! We finally managed to nail it on Thursday and no-one has seen it before, how could they possibly defend it? It's basically magic. "
Scrum completes and Israel Dagg is given the ball deep, one out.
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@KiwiMurph said in World Rugby Board elections:
Wasn't it also the final scrum where the genius move off of it was to hit up the incredible hulk known as Israel Dagg into the teeth of the Lions defense?
Hey fuck you I'd almost forgotten that. Scrum in their half.
"Hey shall we do the move?"
"Oh shit yeah, great idea! We finally managed to nail it on Thursday and no-one has seen it before, how could they possibly defend it? It's basically magic. "
Scrum completes and Israel Dagg is given the ball deep, one out.
@Bones said in World Rugby Board elections:
@KiwiMurph said in World Rugby Board elections:
Wasn't it also the final scrum where the genius move off of it was to hit up the incredible hulk known as Israel Dagg into the teeth of the Lions defense?
Hey fuck you I'd almost forgotten that. Scrum in their half.
"Hey shall we do the move?"
"Oh shit yeah, great idea! We finally managed to nail it on Thursday and no-one has seen it before, how could they possibly defend it? It's basically magic. "
Scrum completes and Israel Dagg is given the ball deep, one out.
Or; "that thing you did that time against South Africa, do that again"
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@Catogrande nup, bullshit.
If he blows the whistle immediately and calls it accidental, scrum black, I accept it.
He didn’t. He blew penalty, the right call. Tough for the lions but that’s the rules. Same as we had the prior week when the lions player jumped to catch the ball and penalty for tackle on the air. Rules are rules and it means penalty. Eat it, deal with it.
A week later same again, opposite direction. However this times the two officials literally conspire to overturn the correct ruling. I don’t give a shit about the we have a deal. It was a stone cold penalty and those two fuckheads invented bullshit to change it. Right in front of everybody.
A stone cold, lay down misere fix.
@MajorRage said in World Rugby Board elections:
@Catogrande nup, bullshit.
If he blows the whistle immediately and calls it accidental, scrum black, I accept it.
He didn’t. He blew penalty, the right call. Tough for the lions but that’s the rules. Same as we had the prior week when the lions player jumped to catch the ball and penalty for tackle on the air. Rules are rules and it means penalty. Eat it, deal with it.
A week later same again, opposite direction. However this times the two officials literally conspire to overturn the correct ruling. I don’t give a shit about the we have a deal. It was a stone cold penalty and those two fuckheads invented bullshit to change it. Right in front of everybody.
A stone cold, lay down misere fix.
I agree, penalty the right call in the first place and also agree that there was no reason to reverse the decision But drawl the line at a fix between officials. You had Poite as the ref, conferring with Peyper as touch judge and Ayoub as the TMO. Going over the footage, Poite asks Ayoub outright "are you happy with the penalty against 16 red"? Ayoub says yes, Peyper does not intervene and for some reason Poite then awards a scrum.
Poite lost it, totally lost it. But no conspiracy, fix, call it what you will.
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@MajorRage said in World Rugby Board elections:
@Catogrande nup, bullshit.
If he blows the whistle immediately and calls it accidental, scrum black, I accept it.
He didn’t. He blew penalty, the right call. Tough for the lions but that’s the rules. Same as we had the prior week when the lions player jumped to catch the ball and penalty for tackle on the air. Rules are rules and it means penalty. Eat it, deal with it.
A week later same again, opposite direction. However this times the two officials literally conspire to overturn the correct ruling. I don’t give a shit about the we have a deal. It was a stone cold penalty and those two fuckheads invented bullshit to change it. Right in front of everybody.
A stone cold, lay down misere fix.
I agree, penalty the right call in the first place and also agree that there was no reason to reverse the decision But drawl the line at a fix between officials. You had Poite as the ref, conferring with Peyper as touch judge and Ayoub as the TMO. Going over the footage, Poite asks Ayoub outright "are you happy with the penalty against 16 red"? Ayoub says yes, Peyper does not intervene and for some reason Poite then awards a scrum.
Poite lost it, totally lost it. But no conspiracy, fix, call it what you will.
@Catogrande said in World Rugby Board elections:
I agree, penalty the right call in the first place and also agree that there was no reason to reverse the decision
I got quite frustrated with rugby after that, as the media and opposing fans held a strong line of 'it was always a scrum'. Poite bottled it big time, and there was no consequence for it. Leaves a bitter taste, and the way the media in particular carried on shook my enjoyment of the game for a while.
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@MajorRage said in World Rugby Board elections:
@Catogrande nup, bullshit.
If he blows the whistle immediately and calls it accidental, scrum black, I accept it.
He didn’t. He blew penalty, the right call. Tough for the lions but that’s the rules. Same as we had the prior week when the lions player jumped to catch the ball and penalty for tackle on the air. Rules are rules and it means penalty. Eat it, deal with it.
A week later same again, opposite direction. However this times the two officials literally conspire to overturn the correct ruling. I don’t give a shit about the we have a deal. It was a stone cold penalty and those two fuckheads invented bullshit to change it. Right in front of everybody.
A stone cold, lay down misere fix.
I agree, penalty the right call in the first place and also agree that there was no reason to reverse the decision But drawl the line at a fix between officials. You had Poite as the ref, conferring with Peyper as touch judge and Ayoub as the TMO. Going over the footage, Poite asks Ayoub outright "are you happy with the penalty against 16 red"? Ayoub says yes, Peyper does not intervene and for some reason Poite then awards a scrum.
Poite lost it, totally lost it. But no conspiracy, fix, call it what you will.
@Catogrande For some reason?
How about the conversation with Garces which you've not mentioned? You know, the one where Poite changes from Penalty to Scrum?
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@Catogrande For some reason?
How about the conversation with Garces which you've not mentioned? You know, the one where Poite changes from Penalty to Scrum?
@MajorRage I have to admit to missing the “Oui Jérôme” bit. But would still side with the view of Poite bottling it. You guys may have little confidence in Graces and Poite but you will find yourselves in pretty wide company there. We have all had our fair share of their idiosyncraticies. I just don’t see anything sinister about it.
Edit: Mind you, it would be interesting to hear Peyper’s view on it.
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@MajorRage I have to admit to missing the “Oui Jérôme” bit. But would still side with the view of Poite bottling it. You guys may have little confidence in Graces and Poite but you will find yourselves in pretty wide company there. We have all had our fair share of their idiosyncraticies. I just don’t see anything sinister about it.
Edit: Mind you, it would be interesting to hear Peyper’s view on it.
@Catogrande said in World Rugby Board elections:
@MajorRage I have to admit to missing the “Oui Jérôme” bit. But would still side with the view of Poite bottling it. You guys may have little confidence in Graces and Poite but you will find yourselves in pretty wide company there. We have all had our fair share of their idiosyncraticies. I just don’t see anything sinister about it.
Fair enough. It doesn't really matter anyway - nothing changes the results, and if somebody who had never heard of rugby asked me what I happened, I'd just say it was a drawn series and leave it at that. Whats written in the books is the only fact.
In reality here, I'm not sold on it was a fix. Perhaps projecting more for the sake of generating an argument, and getting something off my chest which has pissed me off for a long time. Poite certainly hadn't refereed the game in the Lions favour.
However, I cannot rule out that they were under some sort of instruction that if the situation were to arise, they had to ensure they weren't the talking point. So, in that situation, do you side with rugby's power brokers, or do you side with the All Blacks, a team which has had more written about them int he way of cheats, refs on their side etc than any other nation?
You call it bottled, I call it influenced.
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@MajorRage I have to admit to missing the “Oui Jérôme” bit. But would still side with the view of Poite bottling it. You guys may have little confidence in Graces and Poite but you will find yourselves in pretty wide company there. We have all had our fair share of their idiosyncraticies. I just don’t see anything sinister about it.
Edit: Mind you, it would be interesting to hear Peyper’s view on it.
@Catogrande said in World Rugby Board elections:
Edit: Mind you, it would be interesting to hear Peyper’s view on it.
Jaco followed Kaplan's example in 2007 (the QF with Barnes) and did/said nothing.
