'Super Rugby' 2021
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I'm not sure '5 middling sides' is a fair reflection of the situation in Aus.
The Brumbies and the Reds looked like dangerous playoff teams this year if a full Super season was played - the baby Tahs have clearly improved and whilst part of that is a factor of playing other Aus teams I think there has also been genuine improvement in the Tahs too (for example they had a garbage defence coach to the start the season who they fired during COVID break and their defensive structure has improved out of sight) and the Rebels have been competitive all year.
An argument could be made that the depth of the Aussie sides is a problem but the same argument could be made for the NZ teams to some degree - there are really key players in the NZ teams where without them there were huge holes - Mo'unga (Crusaders), Aaron Smith (Highlanders), Jordie (Canes) Faiane (Blues) Boshier (Chiefs). *Faiane is not in the same class as the other players but he was clearly missed when he didn't start.
@KiwiMurph maybe Ofa or Patch for the blues.
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I'm not sure '5 middling sides' is a fair reflection of the situation in Aus.
The Brumbies and the Reds looked like dangerous playoff teams this year if a full Super season was played - the baby Tahs have clearly improved and whilst part of that is a factor of playing other Aus teams I think there has also been genuine improvement in the Tahs too (for example they had a garbage defence coach to the start the season who they fired during COVID break and their defensive structure has improved out of sight) and the Rebels have been competitive all year.
An argument could be made that the depth of the Aussie sides is a problem but the same argument could be made for the NZ teams to some degree - there are really key players in the NZ teams where without them there were huge holes - Mo'unga (Crusaders), Aaron Smith (Highlanders), Jordie (Canes) Faiane (Blues) Boshier (Chiefs). *Faiane is not in the same class as the other players but he was clearly missed when he didn't start.
@KiwiMurph There are always key players, but it is a team game. Having a heap of core players,( who aren't injured obviously) and available, seems to lead to success too
Do Aus have 200 of those? 40 per squad across all positions?
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@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
and, worst of all, are too poor to do it alone.
Yep. So get it right this time, or we all get poorer.
I only got a glimpse of @Derpus avatar but think it was O'Neill? Before he wanted to be just a "D" again?
Watching 3 or 4 really good matches a week, full of talented players is enough. Like tests, I look forward to them. If rugby is to compete with all of the other sports it has to be,"quality".
I watch the grand slams in golf and tennis, not a lot else. The best players are there. That is why I watch. I want to see them, not the second raters.
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@KiwiMurph There are always key players, but it is a team game. Having a heap of core players,( who aren't injured obviously) and available, seems to lead to success too
Do Aus have 200 of those? 40 per squad across all positions?
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This possible 12 team comp should be ultra competitive by the time the PI side has cannibalised the NZ SR sides and the Japanese side has picked up all the guys in the "unlucky not to get a SR contract in 2022 XV" thread.
WONDERFUL.
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This possible 12 team comp should be ultra competitive by the time the PI side has cannibalised the NZ SR sides and the Japanese side has picked up all the guys in the "unlucky not to get a SR contract in 2022 XV" thread.
WONDERFUL.
Yep, just like the new force are the old force minus any players good enough to get contracts elsewhere. The Sunwolves MkII will be the old Sunwolves minus all the players who were good enough to get signed by someone else.
Why the fuck do they think this is a good idea?
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I'm not sure '5 middling sides' is a fair reflection of the situation in Aus.
The Brumbies and the Reds looked like dangerous playoff teams this year if a full Super season was played - the baby Tahs have clearly improved and whilst part of that is a factor of playing other Aus teams I think there has also been genuine improvement in the Tahs too (for example they had a garbage defence coach to the start the season who they fired during COVID break and their defensive structure has improved out of sight) and the Rebels have been competitive all year.
An argument could be made that the depth of the Aussie sides is a problem but the same argument could be made for the NZ teams to some degree - there are really key players in the NZ teams where without them there were huge holes - Mo'unga (Crusaders), Aaron Smith (Highlanders), Jordie (Canes) Faiane (Blues) Boshier (Chiefs). *Faiane is not in the same class as the other players but he was clearly missed when he didn't start.
@KiwiMurph said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
An argument could be made that the depth of the Aussie sides is a problem but the same argument could be made for the NZ teams to some degree
Hardly comparing apples with apples are we?
The hilarious aspect is @Derpus suggesting this competition structure should take a decades long view.
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@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This possible 12 team comp should be ultra competitive by the time the PI side has cannibalised the NZ SR sides and the Japanese side has picked up all the guys in the "unlucky not to get a SR contract in 2022 XV" thread.
WONDERFUL.
Yep, just like the new force are the old force minus any players good enough to get contracts elsewhere. The Sunwolves MkII will be the old Sunwolves minus all the players who were good enough to get signed by someone else.
Why the fuck do they think this is a good idea?
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This possible 12 team comp should be ultra competitive by the time the PI side has cannibalised the NZ SR sides and the Japanese side has picked up all the guys in the "unlucky not to get a SR contract in 2022 XV" thread.
WONDERFUL.
Why the fuck do they think this is a good idea?
Money. It's pretty bloody obvious. The Force are a money pot, and so are the Sunwolves. What you lose on the field you make up in the coffers.
In greener times we could afford to be purists about on-field quality but now we all broke as hell.
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I like this idea, But I would like to see more teams involved as a knockout type competition and then a finals series
Club World Cup 'advances' as European rugby bosses find accord
Kiwi rugby fans have long wondered how the dominant Crusaders would go against the best clubs in Europe.
Hannah Peters/Getty Images
Kiwi rugby fans have long wondered how the dominant Crusaders would go against the best clubs in Europe.The chances of the champion Crusaders and other New Zealand teams taking on the north’s top clubs have increased with European rugby bosses “advancing” plans for a Club World Cup.
European Professional Club Rugby chief executive Vincent Gaillard gave a positive outlook for the proposed tournament that would likely feature the eight quarterfinalists from Europe’s Champions Cup taking on the eight best teams from Super Rugby every four years.
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Report: CVC and Silver Lake circle touted trans- Ta$man rugby tournament
Private equity firms CVC Capital and Silver Lake are set to lock horns for a share of a new trans- Ta$man rugby union competition, according to the Australian.
Having initially been reluctant to include five Australian Super Rugby clubs in a new tournament model, New Zealand Rugby (NZR) is reportedly now ready to sign on for a 12-team competition, with Japanese and Pasifika sides also participating, which will kick off in 2022.Until then, Australia and New Zealand will reportedly continue with their domestic formats that have been used this year to minimise travel as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.
With plans for the trans- Ta$man competition now becoming clearer, both CVC and Silver Lake are reportedly eager to acquire a stake in the tournament as they continue their rugby expansion plans.
CVC has already invested heavily in England’s top-flight Premiership Rugby and the Pro14 provincial competition, while it is also in talks to acquire a stake in the Six Nations national team tournament.ver Lake, meanwhile, was reported to have held talks with NZR earlier this year over a stake in the sport in the country. That deal would provide greater financial security for NZR, although it would not equate to the selling of the All Blacks national team, or the NZR Incorporated company itself.
At the time, the New Zealand Herald reported that talks would resume with Silver Lake, and other interested parties, once NZR had a firm blueprint for a reimagined Super Rugby – which has now manifested as the trans- Ta$man competition.
The report in the Australian added that Silver Lake has ‘made it clear it wants to thwart CVC’s grand plan’ to dominate the global rugby picture, which could prompt a bidding war.
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With that 12 team proposal.
I'd have concerns that up to 4/12ths of the teams could be a fit fake.
Melbourne, Perth, Sunwolves maybe depending on Japanese makeup, and a Singapore based Asia Pacific Dragons if that ends up the Pasifika franchise. From an authenticity POV.
Plus, it's just a bit shit if the Australian talent pool is too diluted. From a quality POV.
Who would be backing the Sunwolves, anyway? Why would they, if lucrative new Top League re-jig is happening anyway.
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this is so bad
a 12 team competition most people don't want, with overseas equity firms owning part of it?
i cannot express how much i hate everything there
Also i couldn't give even a single fuck about a world club comp. This is what test rugby is for.
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I don't get the angst over the Pasifika team. Isn't that what NZ really wanted?
Fuck the Sunwolves, though.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I don't get the angst over the Pasifika team. Isn't that what NZ really wanted?
Fuck the Sunwolves, though.
No, not really. Because the players will mainly just come from existing Super teams. Everyone gets weaker. yay!
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@Snowy clearly not. We could get there with proper management and investment though. Do NZ even have that at the moment?
The O'neill wasn't me. Some cheeky mod i assume.
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I don't get the angst over the Pasifika team. Isn't that what NZ really wanted?
Fuck the Sunwolves, though.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I don't get the angst over the Pasifika team. Isn't that what NZ really wanted?
I don't think it's something NZ have ever really wanted. it's something outsiders have wanted NZ (or SANZAR) to do.
My angst.
- if it is Singapore based it will be fake
- if it is Auckland based it will split support on ethnic lines. Plus it would just dilute existing money and resources which would be better directed at a North Auckland team IMO. So a lot of disruption for no gain.
If it is PI (Suva) based I'm fine with it. Even if it is the poorest team, and finishes near bottom each year. If it brings authenticity, passion, and ability to pull off upsets at home. It is worthy.
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With that 12 team proposal.
I'd have concerns that up to 4/12ths of the teams could be a fit fake.
Melbourne, Perth, Sunwolves maybe depending on Japanese makeup, and a Singapore based Asia Pacific Dragons if that ends up the Pasifika franchise. From an authenticity POV.
Plus, it's just a bit shit if the Australian talent pool is too diluted. From a quality POV.
Who would be backing the Sunwolves, anyway? Why would they, if lucrative new Top League re-jig is happening anyway.
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
a Singapore based Asia Pacific Dragons if that ends up the Pasifika franchise.
Unlikely IMO. Singapore would be too much of a stretch for Carinet alone. APDs only appeared in the picture after NZR's desperation of recent months.
Having said that , Kanaloa Hawaii are another level down again from there.
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@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This possible 12 team comp should be ultra competitive by the time the PI side has cannibalised the NZ SR sides and the Japanese side has picked up all the guys in the "unlucky not to get a SR contract in 2022 XV" thread.
WONDERFUL.
Why the fuck do they think this is a good idea?
Money. It's pretty bloody obvious. The Force are a money pot, and so are the Sunwolves. What you lose on the field you make up in the coffers.
In greener times we could afford to be purists about on-field quality but now we all broke as hell.
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This possible 12 team comp should be ultra competitive by the time the PI side has cannibalised the NZ SR sides and the Japanese side has picked up all the guys in the "unlucky not to get a SR contract in 2022 XV" thread.
WONDERFUL.
Why the fuck do they think this is a good idea?
Money. It's pretty bloody obvious. The Force are a money pot, and so are the Sunwolves. What you lose on the field you make up in the coffers.
In greener times we could afford to be purists about on-field quality but now we all broke as hell.
I was talking about the japanese/pacific teams rather than the force.
I’m ok with a 10 team trans Ta$man comp, even if it’s not my first choice because I don’t think having weakened teams is going to be good for Aust rugby or the comp long term.The pacific team won’t be a money pot. It will drain resources and players and add fuck all other than a box tick.
The Japan team will just hoover up fringe player from other countries too. Why would it be different from the first sunwolves? I was also under the impression that it was costing money because the Japanese union refused to back it properly. Might be wrong on that but regardless. Chasing expansion money and reducing quality is what caused the pre covid mess so it anyone thinking it is a solution now is nuts.
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human beings do not learn lessons
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@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This possible 12 team comp should be ultra competitive by the time the PI side has cannibalised the NZ SR sides and the Japanese side has picked up all the guys in the "unlucky not to get a SR contract in 2022 XV" thread.
WONDERFUL.
Why the fuck do they think this is a good idea?
Money. It's pretty bloody obvious. The Force are a money pot, and so are the Sunwolves. What you lose on the field you make up in the coffers.
In greener times we could afford to be purists about on-field quality but now we all broke as hell.
I was talking about the japanese/pacific teams rather than the force.
I’m ok with a 10 team trans Ta$man comp, even if it’s not my first choice because I don’t think having weakened teams is going to be good for Aust rugby or the comp long term.The pacific team won’t be a money pot. It will drain resources and players and add fuck all other than a box tick.
The Japan team will just hoover up fringe player from other countries too. Why would it be different from the first sunwolves? I was also under the impression that it was costing money because the Japanese union refused to back it properly. Might be wrong on that but regardless. Chasing expansion money and reducing quality is what caused the pre covid mess so it anyone thinking it is a solution now is nuts.
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I was also under the impression that it was costing money because the Japanese union refused to back it properly.
A long story where Sanzaar (how long has it left now?) screwed the pooch.
Well, one of them did while the rest watched...
