'Super Rugby' 2021
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this is so bad
a 12 team competition most people don't want, with overseas equity firms owning part of it?
i cannot express how much i hate everything there
Also i couldn't give even a single fuck about a world club comp. This is what test rugby is for.
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I don't get the angst over the Pasifika team. Isn't that what NZ really wanted?
Fuck the Sunwolves, though.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I don't get the angst over the Pasifika team. Isn't that what NZ really wanted?
Fuck the Sunwolves, though.
No, not really. Because the players will mainly just come from existing Super teams. Everyone gets weaker. yay!
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@Snowy clearly not. We could get there with proper management and investment though. Do NZ even have that at the moment?
The O'neill wasn't me. Some cheeky mod i assume.
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I don't get the angst over the Pasifika team. Isn't that what NZ really wanted?
Fuck the Sunwolves, though.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I don't get the angst over the Pasifika team. Isn't that what NZ really wanted?
I don't think it's something NZ have ever really wanted. it's something outsiders have wanted NZ (or SANZAR) to do.
My angst.
- if it is Singapore based it will be fake
- if it is Auckland based it will split support on ethnic lines. Plus it would just dilute existing money and resources which would be better directed at a North Auckland team IMO. So a lot of disruption for no gain.
If it is PI (Suva) based I'm fine with it. Even if it is the poorest team, and finishes near bottom each year. If it brings authenticity, passion, and ability to pull off upsets at home. It is worthy.
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With that 12 team proposal.
I'd have concerns that up to 4/12ths of the teams could be a fit fake.
Melbourne, Perth, Sunwolves maybe depending on Japanese makeup, and a Singapore based Asia Pacific Dragons if that ends up the Pasifika franchise. From an authenticity POV.
Plus, it's just a bit shit if the Australian talent pool is too diluted. From a quality POV.
Who would be backing the Sunwolves, anyway? Why would they, if lucrative new Top League re-jig is happening anyway.
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
a Singapore based Asia Pacific Dragons if that ends up the Pasifika franchise.
Unlikely IMO. Singapore would be too much of a stretch for Carinet alone. APDs only appeared in the picture after NZR's desperation of recent months.
Having said that , Kanaloa Hawaii are another level down again from there.
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@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This possible 12 team comp should be ultra competitive by the time the PI side has cannibalised the NZ SR sides and the Japanese side has picked up all the guys in the "unlucky not to get a SR contract in 2022 XV" thread.
WONDERFUL.
Why the fuck do they think this is a good idea?
Money. It's pretty bloody obvious. The Force are a money pot, and so are the Sunwolves. What you lose on the field you make up in the coffers.
In greener times we could afford to be purists about on-field quality but now we all broke as hell.
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This possible 12 team comp should be ultra competitive by the time the PI side has cannibalised the NZ SR sides and the Japanese side has picked up all the guys in the "unlucky not to get a SR contract in 2022 XV" thread.
WONDERFUL.
Why the fuck do they think this is a good idea?
Money. It's pretty bloody obvious. The Force are a money pot, and so are the Sunwolves. What you lose on the field you make up in the coffers.
In greener times we could afford to be purists about on-field quality but now we all broke as hell.
I was talking about the japanese/pacific teams rather than the force.
I’m ok with a 10 team trans Ta$man comp, even if it’s not my first choice because I don’t think having weakened teams is going to be good for Aust rugby or the comp long term.The pacific team won’t be a money pot. It will drain resources and players and add fuck all other than a box tick.
The Japan team will just hoover up fringe player from other countries too. Why would it be different from the first sunwolves? I was also under the impression that it was costing money because the Japanese union refused to back it properly. Might be wrong on that but regardless. Chasing expansion money and reducing quality is what caused the pre covid mess so it anyone thinking it is a solution now is nuts.
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human beings do not learn lessons
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@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This possible 12 team comp should be ultra competitive by the time the PI side has cannibalised the NZ SR sides and the Japanese side has picked up all the guys in the "unlucky not to get a SR contract in 2022 XV" thread.
WONDERFUL.
Why the fuck do they think this is a good idea?
Money. It's pretty bloody obvious. The Force are a money pot, and so are the Sunwolves. What you lose on the field you make up in the coffers.
In greener times we could afford to be purists about on-field quality but now we all broke as hell.
I was talking about the japanese/pacific teams rather than the force.
I’m ok with a 10 team trans Ta$man comp, even if it’s not my first choice because I don’t think having weakened teams is going to be good for Aust rugby or the comp long term.The pacific team won’t be a money pot. It will drain resources and players and add fuck all other than a box tick.
The Japan team will just hoover up fringe player from other countries too. Why would it be different from the first sunwolves? I was also under the impression that it was costing money because the Japanese union refused to back it properly. Might be wrong on that but regardless. Chasing expansion money and reducing quality is what caused the pre covid mess so it anyone thinking it is a solution now is nuts.
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I was also under the impression that it was costing money because the Japanese union refused to back it properly.
A long story where Sanzaar (how long has it left now?) screwed the pooch.
Well, one of them did while the rest watched...
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@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This possible 12 team comp should be ultra competitive by the time the PI side has cannibalised the NZ SR sides and the Japanese side has picked up all the guys in the "unlucky not to get a SR contract in 2022 XV" thread.
WONDERFUL.
Why the fuck do they think this is a good idea?
Money. It's pretty bloody obvious. The Force are a money pot, and so are the Sunwolves. What you lose on the field you make up in the coffers.
In greener times we could afford to be purists about on-field quality but now we all broke as hell.
I was talking about the japanese/pacific teams rather than the force.
I’m ok with a 10 team trans Ta$man comp, even if it’s not my first choice because I don’t think having weakened teams is going to be good for Aust rugby or the comp long term.The pacific team won’t be a money pot. It will drain resources and players and add fuck all other than a box tick.
The Japan team will just hoover up fringe player from other countries too. Why would it be different from the first sunwolves? I was also under the impression that it was costing money because the Japanese union refused to back it properly. Might be wrong on that but regardless. Chasing expansion money and reducing quality is what caused the pre covid mess so it anyone thinking it is a solution now is nuts.
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
The Japan team will just hoover up fringe player from other countries too. Why would it be different from the first sunwolves? I was also under the impression that it was costing money because the Japanese union refused to back it properly. Might be wrong on that but regardless. Chasing expansion money and reducing quality is what caused the pre covid mess so it anyone thinking it is a solution now is nuts.
My understanding is the inclusion of a Japanese team provides more TV revenue in Asian markets.
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If the Sunwolves are to be included, there should be a minimum number of Japan eligible players required to be in their squad.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
If the Sunwolves are to be included, there should be a minimum number of Japan eligible players required to be in their squad.
that's still a lot of Tongans
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
If the Sunwolves are to be included, there should be a minimum number of Japan eligible players required to be in their squad.
that's still a lot of Tongans
I'd challenge them to have a few more, but without getting a company to put up the money, they'll struggle.
Most of their wider training squad are JP born, so there are also some 'JP' looking faces who are there not not good enough yet.
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12363282
Australian rugby's stark reality check - and what it means for New Zealand Rugby
Liam Napier
COMMENT:
Rugby Australia faces a stark reality check.
The dawn of a potentially negligible broadcast deal, which is expected to strip millions from RA's annual budget next year, has brought to an end the bold public statements of recent weeks.
Claims of issuing New Zealand ultimatums and steadfastly maintaining faith in the sustainability of five Super Rugby franchises is set to be challenged as the realities of attempting to survive next year loom in the form of the fraught financial bottom line.
Privately, Australian rugby knows drastic cutbacks across all levels of their game may be imminent.
The tender process for RA's broadcast pitch, which centres on bidders cherry picking different competitions and test matches, closed last Friday and there has been little in the way of positive statements since.
What we know for sure is offers will reach nowhere near the same $57m-a-year investment RA had been receiving.
Former RA chief executive Raelene Castle last November knocked back a five-year offer from Fox Sports worth $35m annually in favour of pursuing deals with Optus and free-to-air providers.
Since Castle's departure in late April, though, some projections now suggest Australia's domestic competition will earn $10m per-season.
Noises outside the tent do not paint a rosy picture, either.
Compared to rival codes, Foxtel boss Patrick Delany last week placed Australian rugby well down the pecking order, suggesting a low ball offer from his company at best. He mentioned AFL, NRL, cricket and motorsport as "tier-one sports" and said others were "going to have to adjust".
"We are now quite fearless of losing a sport," Delany claimed.
Broadcast revenue funds the game in every rugby nation. This is, therefore, where the rubber meets the road for Australia.
Interim RA chief executive Rob Clarke had been bullish in public about the future of the domestic game but, behind closed doors, the realities of potentially cutting millions from the budget will be causing serious angst.
Significantly less broadcast revenue will again test the notion of maintaining five teams and Clarke, a former chief executive of the Melbourne Rebels and Brumbies, may need to be removed from that touch point to avoid a potential conflict.
The Western Force are clearly anxious about their future. Despite being welcomed back into Australia's domestic competition this season, the Perth-based team on Tuesday confirmed they are in talks with New Zealand Rugby about possible relocation next season.
Australian rugby will almost certainly be in survival mode next year.
Should RA opt to maintain its five teams, cuts elsewhere are inevitable. Leading players may be asked to further slash wages which could spark a mass exodus of top-tier talent, while the community game that builds the base is also likely to suffer.
Castle pulled off a major coup in signing Dave Rennie as Wallabies coach and he will be desperate to retain as many of the next generation as possible. Rennie could soon, however, instead find many of his best assets basing themselves offshore.
Surviving through to 2022, when a potential trans- Ta$man competition is considered more viable in an improved Covid-19 landscape, will be a big ask for Australia.
New Zealand Rugby is sure to be watching Australia's broadcast developments with interest.
NZR chief executive Mark Robinson has his own challenges to work through, having stated the preference for an eight-to-10 competition next year that will not eventuate.
But with broadcast partner Sky secure for the next five years, and Super Rugby Aotearoa proving hugely successful, Robinson is in a much more stable position to plot longer term plans.
NZR's polarising expression of interest process is understood to have received seven to nine formal applications – outside the five existing franchises. That includes the Bay of Plenty rugby union, Moana Pacific, Kanaloa Hawaii, the Asia Pacific Dragons among others.
If collaboration can be achieved between some parties it is believed two bids could form credible entities beyond next year.
By 2022, following another expected season of Super Rugby Aotearoa, New Zealand could have seven teams keen to join an expanded competition.
How many Australian sides line up in a potential trans- Ta$man venture in 2022 is likely to be heavily influenced by their next broadcast deal.
As much as New Zealand rugby needs Australia, it also needs them to hold their own on and off the pitch.
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12363282
Australian rugby's stark reality check - and what it means for New Zealand Rugby
Liam Napier
COMMENT:
Rugby Australia faces a stark reality check.
The dawn of a potentially negligible broadcast deal, which is expected to strip millions from RA's annual budget next year, has brought to an end the bold public statements of recent weeks.
Claims of issuing New Zealand ultimatums and steadfastly maintaining faith in the sustainability of five Super Rugby franchises is set to be challenged as the realities of attempting to survive next year loom in the form of the fraught financial bottom line.
Privately, Australian rugby knows drastic cutbacks across all levels of their game may be imminent.
The tender process for RA's broadcast pitch, which centres on bidders cherry picking different competitions and test matches, closed last Friday and there has been little in the way of positive statements since.
What we know for sure is offers will reach nowhere near the same $57m-a-year investment RA had been receiving.
Former RA chief executive Raelene Castle last November knocked back a five-year offer from Fox Sports worth $35m annually in favour of pursuing deals with Optus and free-to-air providers.
Since Castle's departure in late April, though, some projections now suggest Australia's domestic competition will earn $10m per-season.
Noises outside the tent do not paint a rosy picture, either.
Compared to rival codes, Foxtel boss Patrick Delany last week placed Australian rugby well down the pecking order, suggesting a low ball offer from his company at best. He mentioned AFL, NRL, cricket and motorsport as "tier-one sports" and said others were "going to have to adjust".
"We are now quite fearless of losing a sport," Delany claimed.
Broadcast revenue funds the game in every rugby nation. This is, therefore, where the rubber meets the road for Australia.
Interim RA chief executive Rob Clarke had been bullish in public about the future of the domestic game but, behind closed doors, the realities of potentially cutting millions from the budget will be causing serious angst.
Significantly less broadcast revenue will again test the notion of maintaining five teams and Clarke, a former chief executive of the Melbourne Rebels and Brumbies, may need to be removed from that touch point to avoid a potential conflict.
The Western Force are clearly anxious about their future. Despite being welcomed back into Australia's domestic competition this season, the Perth-based team on Tuesday confirmed they are in talks with New Zealand Rugby about possible relocation next season.
Australian rugby will almost certainly be in survival mode next year.
Should RA opt to maintain its five teams, cuts elsewhere are inevitable. Leading players may be asked to further slash wages which could spark a mass exodus of top-tier talent, while the community game that builds the base is also likely to suffer.
Castle pulled off a major coup in signing Dave Rennie as Wallabies coach and he will be desperate to retain as many of the next generation as possible. Rennie could soon, however, instead find many of his best assets basing themselves offshore.
Surviving through to 2022, when a potential trans- Ta$man competition is considered more viable in an improved Covid-19 landscape, will be a big ask for Australia.
New Zealand Rugby is sure to be watching Australia's broadcast developments with interest.
NZR chief executive Mark Robinson has his own challenges to work through, having stated the preference for an eight-to-10 competition next year that will not eventuate.
But with broadcast partner Sky secure for the next five years, and Super Rugby Aotearoa proving hugely successful, Robinson is in a much more stable position to plot longer term plans.
NZR's polarising expression of interest process is understood to have received seven to nine formal applications – outside the five existing franchises. That includes the Bay of Plenty rugby union, Moana Pacific, Kanaloa Hawaii, the Asia Pacific Dragons among others.
If collaboration can be achieved between some parties it is believed two bids could form credible entities beyond next year.
By 2022, following another expected season of Super Rugby Aotearoa, New Zealand could have seven teams keen to join an expanded competition.
How many Australian sides line up in a potential trans- Ta$man venture in 2022 is likely to be heavily influenced by their next broadcast deal.
As much as New Zealand rugby needs Australia, it also needs them to hold their own on and off the pitch.
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SA? i assume its been ignored for a reason though
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@booboo said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Tim interesting comment on the Force relocating. Where to?
NZ. Relocating to NZ SR.
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are kiwis fans actually going to get behind and go and watch an "Australian" team if located to there area? can we expect a team to be successful without local support
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are kiwis fans actually going to get behind and go and watch an "Australian" team if located to there area? can we expect a team to be successful without local support
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
are kiwis fans actually going to get behind and go and watch an "Australian" team if located to there area? can we expect a team to be successful without local support
no
