'Super Rugby' 2021
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Let's assume for the purpose of this exercise that Super Rugby as we know it, is kaput.
There's been plenty of media around this and with so much speculation going on, under the current circumstances and with the pre-Covid 19 talk around SA going a different way anyway, let's run with the concept that South African involvement is no longer tenable.
What is everyones' preferred model for 2021? Heaps of different things have been suggested, from a 'super-charged' season-long NPC (I'd love to see it this season in lieu of an abbreviated NZ-only Super Rugby comp), to a NZ and Australian comp, to the latter plus Argentina and then also something involving Japan and/or the Pacific Island nations.
I'm not going to go through why each of these models would or wouldn't work. I have a clear favourite, although a few moons have to align for it to happen.
What's certain is that any comp will involve five Kiwi franchises and at least four Australian teams. I say at least four because this could be a window of opportunity for the Western Force. It should also involve the Jaguares. Last years' beaten finalists have proven their worth as competitors and probably now as a drawcard, and we'd need the income from Argentinian TV rights. So that's 10 or 11 sides.
Without SA which provided the bulk of the all-important TV rights monies, we need another large nation with an interest, a playing base, finances and within striking distance of the South Pacific region. None of the Island nations fit that bill. The solution is obvious: Japan.
Problem is, it's been tried and for whatever reason didn't work (for Saanzar at least). But this isn't now Saanzar. It could however be Janzar. As long as this new iteration of SR didn't clash with the Top League, I think it could be put to the JRU that they could enter 4-5 Kiwi-style franchises made up of 3-4 Top League sides each (I think there are now 16?). It lenghthens their season for sure, but no more than ours, or Australia's, and let's be honest, the physicality of the Top League isn't to the same level of SR, and possibly not even quite to the level of the NPC, so this season isn't going to break guys. An incentive could be a commitment to regular games between Japan, NZ, Australia and Argentina, possibly even entry into the Rugby Championship in lieu of their bunnies South Africa.
Surely a heavy rather than half-hearted Japanese involvement in SR and TRC would yeild financial dividends and secure the future of these competitions and help us to retain players. It also opens up the possibility of the 4-5 Japanese teams signing a limited number of NZ players (on a 'sabbatical' basis) who could still be available for NZ, rather than losing them to European clubs. A bonus could be that these guys - if not selected for NZ - then come back and play NPC.
In an ideal world I'd like to see the Force return, although it does worry me how thin Australia's playing stocks would be when split five ways, plus five Japanese teams and the Jaguares (I could imagine though the Argentine RU could argue for another team or teams). That'd be 16 sides. It'd be a round robin, but I'd have two bye weekends for each side starting maybe two to three rounds in and completed with two to three rounds to go. This makes it a 17 week round robin and gives you a start and finish when you don't have any messy games-in-hand disparity. There wouldn't be any garbage conference systems and my finals series would be eight teams over three weeks (QF, SF and final). Total length 20 weeks. Let's say we had this comp this year, starting on Friday the 14th of February it would be completed on Saturday the 27th of June. A week off and then we host an in-bound tour for 3-4 weeks and get into TRC at the end of July or early August perhaps after another small gap. All going well, the last few weeks of the NPC we have full-strength provinces.
In terms of time zones, Japan works well for Australia and NZ but we would potentially lose some audience in Europe as games in SA were at a good time for them. The gains in Japan could outweigh that loss though.
Thoughts?
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
What's certain is that any comp will involve five Kiwi franchises and at least four Australian teams. I say at least four because this could be a window of opportunity for the Western Force. It should also involve the Jaguares. Last years' beaten finalists have proven their worth as competitors and probably now as a drawcard, and we'd need the income from Argentinian TV rights. So that's 10 or 11 sides.
Not sure about the Jaguares. The timezone is ok but the travel counts against them
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I'd also mandate that multiple Trans- Ta$man games be played on or around ANZAC Day, and at Easter and Queens' Birthday games be spread over the entire long weekend.
Lastly, as I'm just figuring this out as I go, some Thursday night and/or Sunday evening games could be played when there are full rounds ie early and late in the season. For variety and to help spread 8 games around particularly if the Jaguares are playing in Australasia or Japan as you'd have all game in a similar time zone. The 8 games could be Thursday night, Friday night x 2, Saturday afternoon, Saturday night x 2, Sunday morning in Argentina or Sunday afternoon if they're touring and then finally a Sunday evening game.
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I'd also mandate that multiple Trans- Ta$man games be played on or around ANZAC Day, and at Easter and Queens' Birthday games be spread over the entire long weekend.
Lastly, as I'm just figuring this out as I go, some Thursday night and/or Sunday evening games could be played when there are full rounds ie early and late in the season. For variety and to help spread 8 games around particularly if the Jaguares are playing in Australasia or Japan as you'd have all game in a similar time zone. The 8 games could be Thursday night, Friday night x 2, Saturday afternoon, Saturday night x 2, Sunday morning in Argentina or Sunday afternoon if they're touring and then finally a Sunday evening game.
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I'd also mandate that multiple Trans- Ta$man games be played on or around ANZAC Day, and at Easter and Queens' Birthday games be spread over the entire long weekend.
Lastly, as I'm just figuring this out as I go, some Thursday night and/or Sunday evening games could be played when there are full rounds ie early and late in the season. For variety and to help spread 8 games around particularly if the Jaguares are playing in Australasia or Japan as you'd have all game in a similar time zone. The 8 games could be Thursday night, Friday night x 2, Saturday afternoon, Saturday night x 2, Sunday morning in Argentina or Sunday afternoon if they're touring and then finally a Sunday evening game.
Spot on!
That'd be even better with 12 sides going at it -- Thursday, Fri x2 Sat x2, Sunday (anytime).
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Is the Top League going to keep the same season? At the moment it clashes with SR, and we saw what the Sunwolves were reduced to.
@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Is the Top League going to keep the same season? At the moment it clashes with SR, and we saw what the Sunwolves were reduced to.
That's possibly one of the ducks to be lined up, but if the JRU were incentivised to do so, I'm sure it'd be feasible to move it a few weeks.
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@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Is the Top League going to keep the same season? At the moment it clashes with SR, and we saw what the Sunwolves were reduced to.
That's possibly one of the ducks to be lined up, but if the JRU were incentivised to do so, I'm sure it'd be feasible to move it a few weeks.
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Is the Top League going to keep the same season? At the moment it clashes with SR, and we saw what the Sunwolves were reduced to.
That's possibly one of the ducks to be lined up, but if the JRU were incentivised to do so, I'm sure it'd be feasible to move it a few weeks.
that would be some incentive. i think they are doing okay for themselves, and might not see why they need to change.
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@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Is the Top League going to keep the same season? At the moment it clashes with SR, and we saw what the Sunwolves were reduced to.
That's possibly one of the ducks to be lined up, but if the JRU were incentivised to do so, I'm sure it'd be feasible to move it a few weeks.
that would be some incentive. i think they are doing okay for themselves, and might not see why they need to change.
@mariner4life You don't reckon if they were offered at least one annual home test vs NZ/Australia/Argentina, or entry to TRC, that'd be enough? I certainly think the latter would do the trick.
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@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Is the Top League going to keep the same season? At the moment it clashes with SR, and we saw what the Sunwolves were reduced to.
That's possibly one of the ducks to be lined up, but if the JRU were incentivised to do so, I'm sure it'd be feasible to move it a few weeks.
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@shark The 2020 Top League started in Jan and runs until at least May. Quite an overlap there.
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@shark The 2020 Top League started in Jan and runs until at least May. Quite an overlap there.
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For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
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Happy to incude Japan if they take it seriously. If it's the current situation, then i am not interested.
No to Argentina. Timezone good for watching, but the travel is fucked.
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Happy to incude Japan if they take it seriously. If it's the current situation, then i am not interested.
No to Argentina. Timezone good for watching, but the travel is fucked.
Argentina might struggle to even play 'friendlies' for the forseeable future too.
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Is the Top League going to keep the same season? At the moment it clashes with SR, and we saw what the Sunwolves were reduced to.
@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Is the Top League going to keep the same season? At the moment it clashes with SR, and we saw what the Sunwolves were reduced to.
I would split 5 teams from the Top league, so have 5 in Super, plus the red and white pools in the Top league as it currently stands (with one extra somewhere or one more added).
Whether companies would go for that or not, I don't know, but that seems the best option. They could then have all teams participate in the cup competition later in the year if they wished (and even use that as a promotion/relegation competition if they wished).
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To add to this, if we went down this road, I'd allow kiwi players to play for any Super rugby team and be available for the ABs. We'd have big names go to Japan, where they would earn serious coin, and suddenly the JP sides would be very strong. We could easily have the best product then too, and fuck up the NH by keeping the best players around, plus extend the number of players available for the ABs.
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I'm not interested in international club/franchise rugby.
Unfortunately we may still be lumped with Australia if the trans-tasman bubble comes into being, so no incentive to totally sever the Super Rugby ties/model.
I love the NPC, but don't think it should become the future professional model as its charm was that it was representative rugby. Apart from being unaffordable, professional sport needs to be club/based rather the representative team based. And the amateur representative unions should be shielded from the dangers of prefessionalism and left to do what they should do - reward the 15 best club players in the province with rep rugby, plus youth, womens rugby etc.
I would love to see a professional domestic competition based on 'franchises' which are based on old provincial lines. With ownership by the provinces as well as by fan membership. Something like a hybrid of the original Super 12 along with the AFL membership system, or the Bundesliga 50+1 ownership model (minimum 50+1 % ownership by members).
And below this, an amateur NPC still exists, and amateur club rugby.
Each 'franchise' needs a minimum of 2 NPC provinces (to seperate their identity from princes).
Ownership is by the amatuer unions, plus members - to give ownership and buy in from community. But these are not for profit structures.So I would end up splitting some of the existing provinces, and combining some of the others. Getting a preferably 32 team amateur competition (2 divisions of 16 with: 2 pools of 8, or 4 pools of 4 - so amateurs play as a cheap cheery on top at the end of the club season)
So, in my dreams. Something like this:
11 team Domestic Professional League- North Auckland (Amateur unions: Northland, North Harbour)
- Auckland (Amateur unions: Auckland Isthmus, Waitakere)
- Counties Manukau (Amateur unions: Manukau, Franklin) proper Manuakau, Otara, Mangere, Otahuhu, Pakuranga move south
- Waikato (Amateur unions: Hamilton, Thames Valley, King Country)
- BOP (Amateur unions: Coastline, BOP Lakes)
- Eastlands (Amateur unions: Hawkes Bay, Wairarapa, East Cape)
- LNI (Amateur unions: (Taranaki, Wanganui, Manawatu)
- Wellington (Amateur unions: Wellington, Ho-Kap)
- Ta$man (Amateur unions: (Westland, Nelson Bays, Marlborough)
- Canterbury (Amateur unions: Christchurch, South Canterbury, Mid Canterbury, North Canterbury)
- Otago (Amateur unions: Dunedin, Otago Country, Southland, North Otago)
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I'm not interested in international club/franchise rugby.
Unfortunately we may still be lumped with Australia if the trans-tasman bubble comes into being, so no incentive to totally sever the Super Rugby ties/model.
I love the NPC, but don't think it should become the future professional model as its charm was that it was representative rugby. Apart from being unaffordable, professional sport needs to be club/based rather the representative team based. And the amateur representative unions should be shielded from the dangers of prefessionalism and left to do what they should do - reward the 15 best club players in the province with rep rugby, plus youth, womens rugby etc.
I would love to see a professional domestic competition based on 'franchises' which are based on old provincial lines. With ownership by the provinces as well as by fan membership. Something like a hybrid of the original Super 12 along with the AFL membership system, or the Bundesliga 50+1 ownership model (minimum 50+1 % ownership by members).
And below this, an amateur NPC still exists, and amateur club rugby.
Each 'franchise' needs a minimum of 2 NPC provinces (to seperate their identity from princes).
Ownership is by the amatuer unions, plus members - to give ownership and buy in from community. But these are not for profit structures.So I would end up splitting some of the existing provinces, and combining some of the others. Getting a preferably 32 team amateur competition (2 divisions of 16 with: 2 pools of 8, or 4 pools of 4 - so amateurs play as a cheap cheery on top at the end of the club season)
So, in my dreams. Something like this:
11 team Domestic Professional League- North Auckland (Amateur unions: Northland, North Harbour)
- Auckland (Amateur unions: Auckland Isthmus, Waitakere)
- Counties Manukau (Amateur unions: Manukau, Franklin) proper Manuakau, Otara, Mangere, Otahuhu, Pakuranga move south
- Waikato (Amateur unions: Hamilton, Thames Valley, King Country)
- BOP (Amateur unions: Coastline, BOP Lakes)
- Eastlands (Amateur unions: Hawkes Bay, Wairarapa, East Cape)
- LNI (Amateur unions: (Taranaki, Wanganui, Manawatu)
- Wellington (Amateur unions: Wellington, Ho-Kap)
- Ta$man (Amateur unions: (Westland, Nelson Bays, Marlborough)
- Canterbury (Amateur unions: Christchurch, South Canterbury, Mid Canterbury, North Canterbury)
- Otago (Amateur unions: Dunedin, Otago Country, Southland, North Otago)
