'Super Rugby' 2021
-
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
If NZR can get away with picking NZ only qualified people in SR
there are always some who arent, and again, NZ Citizen, but plays for Fiji/Samoa/Tonga...
As for being under the PI Governance, I expect still have to comply with NZ Laws.
@taniwharugby yes. But under NZ laws you cannot deny an NZer a job because they are not qualified to play for the ABs, but NZR successfully do.
-
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
so any employment law issues will be their problem
Even if based in NZ? Really?
Our laws will apply I think.
-
@taniwharugby yes. But under NZ laws you cannot deny an NZer a job because they are not qualified to play for the ABs, but NZR successfully do.
@Machpants but there have been plenty over the years who are not AB eligible who play super rugby in NZ, granted numbers are low, but it happens.
It would be hard to prove you have been denied a contract based on being white or not being AB eligible for other too.
-
@Snowy yes they will have to comply too the same amount that NZR do, which (around eligibility) is not at all
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Snowy yes they will have to comply too the same amount that NZR do, which (around eligibility) is not at all
NZR have the choice to pick anybody that they deem eligible for the team, that isn't employment law.
-
The quota is two non NZ qualified players per SR team, others have to apply for dispensation. I'm not an employment laws expert, but that has got to be illegal. But they get away with it because it is not challenged. Or maybe hard too challenge. Either way, same applies for PI team. There only problem they have is foreign players will have too get working visa, not easy. So they'll mostly be PI kiwis.
-
The quota is two non NZ qualified players per SR team, others have to apply for dispensation. I'm not an employment laws expert, but that has got to be illegal. But they get away with it because it is not challenged. Or maybe hard too challenge. Either way, same applies for PI team. There only problem they have is foreign players will have too get working visa, not easy. So they'll mostly be PI kiwis.
@Machpants so Christian Cullen coulda played for them
-
@Machpants so Christian Cullen coulda played for them
@taniwharugby said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Machpants so Christian Cullen coulda played for them
Sure. It's not race based but eligibility based, also run by PI unions. I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's what they are aiming for, asnd it will be fine under NZ laws. If NZR can limit SR teams numbers of non NZ qualified (like France, UK, etc, all do) PI team can do the same I'm sure
-
@Snowy why? They don't have to be brown, they just have to be qualified for a PI. It's not race based
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
they just have to be qualified for a PI
so NZ
What about Maori...? -
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
they just have to be qualified for a PI
so NZ
What about Maori...?@taniwharugby said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
they just have to be qualified for a PI
so NZ
What about Maori...?Yeah, i say PI when I mean Fiji, Tonga, and Samoa. Easier to write, just laziness.
In addition Pacifika does not only mean NZ based/born PI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasifika
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/pasifika
That maybe a govt definition, but it is not the only definition. And not the one used here by NZ rugby, it is used in the broader sense of "people from the islands of the South Pacific and their descendants"
-
@taniwharugby yes. But under NZ laws you cannot deny an NZer a job because they are not qualified to play for the ABs, but NZR successfully do.
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@taniwharugby yes. But under NZ laws you cannot deny an NZer a job because they are not qualified to play for the ABs, but NZR successfully do.
Which law is that? I'm not so sure that's true.
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
The quota is two non NZ qualified players per SR team, others have to apply for dispensation. I'm not an employment laws expert, but that has got to be illegal. But they get away with it because it is not challenged. Or maybe hard too challenge. Either way, same applies for PI team. There only problem they have is foreign players will have too get working visa, not easy. So they'll mostly be PI kiwis.
Again, based on which law would that be illegal?
Definitely not the Human Rights Act, which only forbids discrimination based on sex, marital status, religious belief, ethical belief, colour, race, and ethnic or national origins. Dinstinugishing players based on which country they are eligible to represent in sport doesn't fall under any of these criteria. Not signing someone who's white, however, is.
-
It's certainly the government definition. Perhaps NZR should clarify who would be eligible?
Would the same restrictions apply for All Black qualification? How many overseas based players can be involved? Is that different to the Kiwi teams?
@Snowy yeah it is the MoE definition, but it is not coomon usage - I only know it from working in a school. But there are a ton of questions that need answering, I agree. But I am pretty sure that the common usage of Pasifica is what they are meaning. Problem is they;ve let the genie out of the bottle by saying we need a pasifika SR team, but (especially now with CV) there is no way to have a team in the islands that is profitable. Travel costs etc are what they are trying to get away with by ditching SA for SR. It's worth it for the big dosh internationals, but not for the much less dosh SR. But the genie is out, NZR have fucked up again in that stupid Aratipu release. Instead of keeping their cards close to their chest, negotiating with international partners, and putting quiet feelers out. They have pissed off Oz, Sa, Arg at the same time as putting themselves in a position where they have to support another SR team. Basically from picking Foster on, NZR has been a cluster fuck.
-
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@taniwharugby yes. But under NZ laws you cannot deny an NZer a job because they are not qualified to play for the ABs, but NZR successfully do.
Which law is that? I'm not so sure that's true.
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
The quota is two non NZ qualified players per SR team, others have to apply for dispensation. I'm not an employment laws expert, but that has got to be illegal. But they get away with it because it is not challenged. Or maybe hard too challenge. Either way, same applies for PI team. There only problem they have is foreign players will have too get working visa, not easy. So they'll mostly be PI kiwis.
Again, based on which law would that be illegal?
Definitely not the Human Rights Act, which only forbids discrimination based on sex, marital status, religious belief, ethical belief, colour, race, and ethnic or national origins. Dinstinugishing players based on which country they are eligible to represent in sport doesn't fall under any of these criteria. Not signing someone who's white, however, is.
@Stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@taniwharugby yes. But under NZ laws you cannot deny an NZer a job because they are not qualified to play for the ABs, but NZR successfully do.
Which law is that? I'm not so sure that's true.
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
The quota is two non NZ qualified players per SR team, others have to apply for dispensation. I'm not an employment laws expert, but that has got to be illegal. But they get away with it because it is not challenged. Or maybe hard too challenge. Either way, same applies for PI team. There only problem they have is foreign players will have too get working visa, not easy. So they'll mostly be PI kiwis.
Again, based on which law would that be illegal?
Definitely not the Human Rights Act, which only forbids discrimination based on sex, marital status, religious belief, ethical belief, colour, race, and ethnic or national origins. Dinstinugishing players based on which country they are eligible to represent in sport doesn't fall under any of these criteria. Not signing someone who's white, however, is.
Yeha I could be totally wrong, but say I want to employ someone and I say to NZ born/passport holder who has played for Samoa - sorry won't employ you cos you can't reperesent ABs. That is what NZR do with SR. Maybe sports have a different rule that the rest of the jobs in NZ?
-
The team will be under Tina, Samoa and Fijian RU governance. NZR won't be running it or picking coaches, so any employment law issues will be their problem. If NZR can get away with picking NZ only qualified people in SR, then the Pacific team can do three same with island qualified. It won't be based on raced, but international qualification, is my guess.
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
The team will be under Tina, Samoa and Fijian RU governance. NZR won't be running it or picking coaches, so any employment law issues will be their problem. If NZR can get away with picking NZ only qualified people in SR, then the Pacific team can do three same with island qualified. It won't be based on raced, but international qualification, is my guess.
I don't think it will. Thye have no money, and some of them (Cough, Tonga) have no governance.
It will be privately owned. It will operate from NZ, and post-covid at best with a game or 2 in Suva or Apia.
-
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
The team will be under Tina, Samoa and Fijian RU governance. NZR won't be running it or picking coaches, so any employment law issues will be their problem. If NZR can get away with picking NZ only qualified people in SR, then the Pacific team can do three same with island qualified. It won't be based on raced, but international qualification, is my guess.
I don't think it will. Thye have no money, and some of them (Cough, Tonga) have no governance.
It will be privately owned. It will operate from NZ, and post-covid at best with a game or 2 in Suva or Apia.
@Rapido The NZH article: "A proposal has been tabled to run a Pasifika Moana team out of South Auckland which will be funded by a mix of broadcast and sponsorship income and governed by respective representatives from Fiji, Samoa and Tonga."
-
@Snowy yeah it is the MoE definition, but it is not coomon usage - I only know it from working in a school. But there are a ton of questions that need answering, I agree. But I am pretty sure that the common usage of Pasifica is what they are meaning. Problem is they;ve let the genie out of the bottle by saying we need a pasifika SR team, but (especially now with CV) there is no way to have a team in the islands that is profitable. Travel costs etc are what they are trying to get away with by ditching SA for SR. It's worth it for the big dosh internationals, but not for the much less dosh SR. But the genie is out, NZR have fucked up again in that stupid Aratipu release. Instead of keeping their cards close to their chest, negotiating with international partners, and putting quiet feelers out. They have pissed off Oz, Sa, Arg at the same time as putting themselves in a position where they have to support another SR team. Basically from picking Foster on, NZR has been a cluster fuck.
@Machpants Just call them the Purples or something and it all goes away.
We have already seen how the Crusaders name has been questioned - let's not do it again was the point.
-
@Machpants Just call them the Purples or something and it all goes away.
We have already seen how the Crusaders name has been questioned - let's not do it again was the point.
