'Super Rugby' 2021
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@gt12 how does that work for Japan's current domestic comp which is owned and controlled by their major corporations?
They could keep the Top league on at a different time to Super Rugby, and have the two top red and white league placegetters join Super rugby (perhaps with some allowance to get a bigger squad).
Or they could pick winners and get bids from 4 teams to join Super rugby, which would leave them with a 12 team competition for the Top league - whether those teams could join other competitions would be another conversation.
Given that the Top League was designed to bring up the standard of Japanese rugby, I'm reasonably sure (I only know a few people involved in a roundabout way) that teams would want to be in Super Rugby if they could be, and there would be some support for it in the JRFU. I spoke with a coach of TL team not that long ago and he was telling me that the SWs were great, but always destined for failure because they didn't open up enough spots to get some of the strong company teams involved - and the better players that they have available.
It was somewhat understandable though as picking one winner (probably Panasononic) would have been very hard. However, choosing four well-financed squads though some application process would, I hope, be more manageable and would lead to Japan having a gradation in the professional leagues of its players. If they scheduled the games right, they could make the Top league the premier domestic competition, and Super the international competition. Plus, of course, the All Blacks could offer to support Japan joining the Rugby Championship, which would be a massive boost to Japan if it happened. That's a lot of dollars and sold out stadiums for the Japan NZ and Oz games, and with SA being World Champs, that would sell out too.
Whether it would work or could happen, I obviously don't know - I'm not in the industry, but if the NZRFU hasn't been actively trying to make it happen, they are idiots.
@gt12 Sounds pretty reasonable - I think a champions league style format would make more sense personally, but either way i agree they should be trying to make it happen. I was always of the understanding those Top league teams had little interest.
I also agree that Japan would be a perfect addition to the RC.
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@gt12 Sounds pretty reasonable - I think a champions league style format would make more sense personally, but either way i agree they should be trying to make it happen. I was always of the understanding those Top league teams had little interest.
I also agree that Japan would be a perfect addition to the RC.
Sorry, I didn’t mention that as it doesn’t seem to be ok the radar, but I agree that a Champions/Ueda cup style competition would also be a great idea - probably my favored idea - as then new conferences could be added. It would also allow for an Oz conference
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@MajorRage said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Lets not kid ourselves here - the only loss is the SA money.
Outside finals, crowds at NZ-SA matches in super rugby could measured in the 100's in SA and barely in the thousands in NZ. NZ needs to jump on the Japan train, before the 6N do and literally setup a rich country tournament (for growing the game, obviously).
Japan works with our timezones. I wonder how the Japanese would feel about jumping back into bed with us again given how badly the Sunwolves were treated?
@Cantab79 said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@MajorRage said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Lets not kid ourselves here - the only loss is the SA money.
Outside finals, crowds at NZ-SA matches in super rugby could measured in the 100's in SA and barely in the thousands in NZ. NZ needs to jump on the Japan train, before the 6N do and literally setup a rich country tournament (for growing the game, obviously).
Japan works with our timezones. I wonder how the Japanese would feel about jumping back into bed with us again given how badly the Sunwolves were treated?
Were they badly treated by us or SANZAAR? Hopefully they can differentiate.
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Working with Japan to create a champions league style cherry on top, would be great. And it appears this is in fact exactly what has been happening until the NZRU v ARU bitch fight drowned out all other news.
But, trying to create a round robin super tournament with 3 or 4 Sunwolves teams in it would be both shit, and madness. You'd be
a) battling the financial power of the Top League owners, who aren't interested, and would see it as a threat.
b) working with a union partner who appears to be totally indifferent to it (The JRFU).
c) Keeping all the disadvantages of inter-contintental travel costs.
d) Keeping all the fan engagement disadvantages of inter-contintental franchise tournaments where fans don't give a crap about opposition fake teams from countries a hemisphere away from them. -
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Mark Robinson is proving to be very ineffective at brinkmanship and pushing through plans. Has so far accumulated enough egg on his face to supply the Sunday brunches at the local cafe.
He seems to be exuding incompetence at the moment.
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@Tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12369850
Rob Nichol making more sense in his collaborative rather than combative approach for me. Watching NZ and Aus currently is like a poor version of US politics....handbags from 5 paces, both trying to undermine each other and one dick may come out on top, but rugby wont.
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@KiwiMurph i get that, im just saying if we're writing off next season as a stop gap...why not try and make the comp we have awesome rather than such a diluted super comp
we always hear the NPC cant be the top cop anymore...but we havent really seen a fully funded/marketed/backed NPC for a very long time, so we can know for sure and this seem like a great chance to try
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@KiwiMurph i get that, im just saying if we're writing off next season as a stop gap...why not try and make the comp we have awesome rather than such a diluted super comp
we always hear the NPC cant be the top cop anymore...but we havent really seen a fully funded/marketed/backed NPC for a very long time, so we can know for sure and this seem like a great chance to try
I'm with ya. Have been banging that drum for weeks, or months even. And now the ABs are gone for the rest of this NPC, I'm even more for it.
Another upside with having a full-blooded NPC in lieu of a poor-mans' SR is the ability to develop players so when we go into a proper SR tournament in 2022, we're far better equipped.
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@Tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12369850
Rob Nichol making more sense in his collaborative rather than combative approach for me. Watching NZ and Aus currently is like a poor version of US politics....handbags from 5 paces, both trying to undermine each other and one dick may come out on top, but rugby wont.
@bayimports said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Rob Nichol making more sense in his collaborative rather than combative approach for me. Watching NZ and Aus currently is like a poor version of US politics....handbags from 5 paces, both trying to undermine each other and one dick may come out on top, but rugby wont.
Maybe its about time NZ took the lead.
Aust and SA basically f++ked super rugby by adding too many teams. If it has been left at 3 and 4 as a12 team competition I doubt it would have declined like it did. But NZ taking the lead will (obviously) upset the Aussies. But the ideal new competition would only have 8 teams. 5 from NZ and three from Aussie. With a focus on ensuring all teams have a chance of winning.
If the Aussies play silly buggers (as they are doing) then let them go it along for the main competition. As NZ should also (I prefer this to playing weak Aussie teams). With an attempt to have a separate knockout crossover competition. Hopefully including more than just Aust teams
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@KiwiMurph i get that, im just saying if we're writing off next season as a stop gap...why not try and make the comp we have awesome rather than such a diluted super comp
we always hear the NPC cant be the top cop anymore...but we havent really seen a fully funded/marketed/backed NPC for a very long time, so we can know for sure and this seem like a great chance to try
I'm with ya. Have been banging that drum for weeks, or months even. And now the ABs are gone for the rest of this NPC, I'm even more for it.
Another upside with having a full-blooded NPC in lieu of a poor-mans' SR is the ability to develop players so when we go into a proper SR tournament in 2022, we're far better equipped.
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@KiwiMurph i get that, im just saying if we're writing off next season as a stop gap...why not try and make the comp we have awesome rather than such a diluted super comp
we always hear the NPC cant be the top cop anymore...but we havent really seen a fully funded/marketed/backed NPC for a very long time, so we can know for sure and this seem like a great chance to try
I'm with ya. Have been banging that drum for weeks, or months even. And now the ABs are gone for the rest of this NPC, I'm even more for it.
Another upside with having a full-blooded NPC in lieu of a poor-mans' SR is the ability to develop players so when we go into a proper SR tournament in 2022, we're far better equipped.
So ignore a successful competition that NZ can afford and punt on something different? And losing so many top players is hopefully a one off
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@Tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12369850
“We’ve been able to demonstrate you can assemble a strong squad from outside of the New Zealand player base. They’re all back here in New Zealand, Australia and the islands. And there’s a quality coaching group.
Without seeing a list of names, I'm not convinced by Nichol's statement that that Pasifika squad will be competitive enough and strong enough to beat the 5 other teams. Who are these players? The best PI players from outside the current 5 franchises are still playing in Europe.
This is also telling:
Nichol confirmed their plan for the sixth team was a collaboration between NZRPA, Pasifika and the Counties Manukau union and had not yet had a chance to work through the detail required.
This reaction also seems a bit over the top. NZR is, after all, keen for the addition of a Pasifika team from 2022:Nichol said Thursday’s announcement had caused “unbelievable angst” among the Pasifika community. “They feel let down, they feel betrayed. I have no doubt this is going to manifest itself over the weeks ahead, unless NZ Rugby do a very quick about-turn.”
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@bayimports said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Rob Nichol making more sense in his collaborative rather than combative approach for me. Watching NZ and Aus currently is like a poor version of US politics....handbags from 5 paces, both trying to undermine each other and one dick may come out on top, but rugby wont.
Maybe its about time NZ took the lead.
Aust and SA basically f++ked super rugby by adding too many teams. If it has been left at 3 and 4 as a12 team competition I doubt it would have declined like it did. But NZ taking the lead will (obviously) upset the Aussies. But the ideal new competition would only have 8 teams. 5 from NZ and three from Aussie. With a focus on ensuring all teams have a chance of winning.
If the Aussies play silly buggers (as they are doing) then let them go it along for the main competition. As NZ should also (I prefer this to playing weak Aussie teams). With an attempt to have a separate knockout crossover competition. Hopefully including more than just Aust teams
@Winger If it's 'NZ's time to take the lead' they are doing a fucken shite job of it. Leading is about far more than making unilateral decisions without consultation.
The suggestion that it's about 'not playing weaker Australian teams' has been well and truly dismissed - given the provided alternatives actually include our weakest team.
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@bayimports said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Rob Nichol making more sense in his collaborative rather than combative approach for me. Watching NZ and Aus currently is like a poor version of US politics....handbags from 5 paces, both trying to undermine each other and one dick may come out on top, but rugby wont.
Maybe its about time NZ took the lead.
Aust and SA basically f++ked super rugby by adding too many teams. If it has been left at 3 and 4 as a12 team competition I doubt it would have declined like it did. But NZ taking the lead will (obviously) upset the Aussies. But the ideal new competition would only have 8 teams. 5 from NZ and three from Aussie. With a focus on ensuring all teams have a chance of winning.
If the Aussies play silly buggers (as they are doing) then let them go it along for the main competition. As NZ should also (I prefer this to playing weak Aussie teams). With an attempt to have a separate knockout crossover competition. Hopefully including more than just Aust teams
@Winger said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
But the ideal new competition would only have 8 teams. 5 from NZ and three from Aussie. With a focus on ensuring all teams have a chance of winning.
Then we should only have 4 NZ teams, because at least one of the NZ teams is utter shit every year.
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@Winger said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
But the ideal new competition would only have 8 teams. 5 from NZ and three from Aussie. With a focus on ensuring all teams have a chance of winning.
Then we should only have 4 NZ teams, because at least one of the NZ teams is utter shit every year.
@Machpants But not the same team every year ...
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@Winger said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
But the ideal new competition would only have 8 teams. 5 from NZ and three from Aussie. With a focus on ensuring all teams have a chance of winning.
Then we should only have 4 NZ teams, because at least one of the NZ teams is utter shit every year.
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Winger said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
But the ideal new competition would only have 8 teams. 5 from NZ and three from Aussie. With a focus on ensuring all teams have a chance of winning.
Then we should only have 4 NZ teams, because at least one of the NZ teams is utter shit every year.
yeah but it rotates pretty regularly
