'Super Rugby' 2021
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@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Sounds naff
FFS, I hate this shit. How about they work on getting the TMO to not fuck up clear decisions. Referring them more things to get wrong is not going to improve the game.
Not sure how allowing the defending team to kick the ball away after the attacking team has been held up over try line is going to promote attacking play.
But hey, lets go all out like the BBL and introduce power plays and power surges and mega awesome lightning periods where tries are worth 100 and fans can vote on removing the boots of an opposition player for 10mins.
im going to have to read this now, I thought it was only if the defending team touches it down in goal, ie instead of a 22 drop out its a goal line drop out
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Sounds naff
FFS, I hate this shit. How about they work on getting the TMO to not fuck up clear decisions. Referring them more things to get wrong is not going to improve the game.
Not sure how allowing the defending team to kick the ball away after the attacking team has been held up over try line is going to promote attacking play.
But hey, lets go all out like the BBL and introduce power plays and power surges and mega awesome lightning periods where tries are worth 100 and fans can vote on removing the boots of an opposition player for 10mins.
im going to have to read this now, I thought it was only if the defending team touches it down in goal, ie instead of a 22 drop out its a goal line drop out
No, looks like being held up over the line is no longer a scrum with the held up team feeding. It is a boot downfield by the defenders. Stupid.
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Sounds naff
FFS, I hate this shit. How about they work on getting the TMO to not fuck up clear decisions. Referring them more things to get wrong is not going to improve the game.
Not sure how allowing the defending team to kick the ball away after the attacking team has been held up over try line is going to promote attacking play.
But hey, lets go all out like the BBL and introduce power plays and power surges and mega awesome lightning periods where tries are worth 100 and fans can vote on removing the boots of an opposition player for 10mins.
im going to have to read this now, I thought it was only if the defending team touches it down in goal, ie instead of a 22 drop out its a goal line drop out
No, looks like being held up over the line is no longer a scrum with the held up team feeding. It is a boot downfield by the defenders. Stupid.
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From the NZR media release:
A goal line drop-out will occur when an attacking player carrying the ball is held up in the in-goal or knocks the ball on in the in-goal area, or when an attacking kick, other than a penalty or drop goal attempt, is grounded by the defending team in their in-goal area.The rationale for introducing the goal line drop-out was to reward attacking teams by allowing them to build pressure and to encourage defending teams to clear the ball from their in-goal area, Anthony said. “We’ve had great support for this innovation from coaches and players and we’re confident it will be popular with fans. “The current re-start rule of a 22-metre drop-out often pushes the receiving team well back into their own half and we think teams will be more likely to counter-attack from a goal line drop-out, which will in turn lead to more attacking pressure and hopefully more tries.” -
@pukunui don't like that
how about if a defending team carries it back?
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
how about if a defending team carries it back?
5m attacking scrum
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
how about if a defending team carries it back?
5m attacking scrum
@Kiap which seems even stupid...er, if theyre not getting rid of those attacking scrums all together or something
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I look at it as 'who should get the award, and how much ...'
A defender forced to carry back and ground in their own in-goal ... well, I'm not gonna say they stuffed up, but they've certainly conceded. It's like tapping out in martial arts; you've lost the contest.
It's a no-brainer that this is a 5m attacking scrum.
The contest loser doesn't get the reward. It would be wrong to allow a drop-out in that instance because it would benefit the loser by advancing play 20-30 metres upfield.
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I look at it as 'who should get the award, and how much ...'
A defender forced to carry back and ground in their own in-goal ... well, I'm not gonna say they stuffed up, but they've certainly conceded. It's like tapping out in martial arts; you've lost the contest.
It's a no-brainer that this is a 5m attacking scrum.
The contest loser doesn't get the reward. It would be wrong to allow a drop-out in that instance because it would benefit the loser by advancing play 20-30 metres upfield.
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@Kiap agreed, but is just managing to get a hand under the ball worth the reward of being able to boot it back downfield?
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiap agreed, but is just managing to get a hand under the ball worth the reward of being able to boot it back downfield?
In that case, the ball carrier has lost the contest by the ball being held up.
Why should that player's team be rewarded with repeat attempts 5m out?
They stuffed up the try. There's no excuse for it from a rolling maul or scrum. That team can run it again starting 25-30m out.
Even worse is the ten x 1 metre pick and goes.
If the defence forces a 'held up' they earn that restart moving upfield.
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The two big changes I'm interested in watching are rewarding teams for good kicks (22 - 50) which should help keep wingers slightly back.
And maintaining some semblance of a contest despite losing a player to card lottery.
FWIW I'm also coming around to @Kiap's argument.
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiap agreed, but is just managing to get a hand under the ball worth the reward of being able to boot it back downfield?
In that case, the ball carrier has lost the contest by the ball being held up.
Why should that player's team be rewarded with repeat attempts 5m out?
They stuffed up the try. There's no excuse for it from a rolling maul or scrum. That team can run it again starting 25-30m out.
Even worse is the ten x 1 metre pick and goes.
If the defence forces a 'held up' they earn that restart moving upfield.
@Kiap I think both situations could be viewed from both sides, rather than a defending team stuffing up but taking it back you could say the attacking team pressured them into it
so we're deeming the team in possession to be the team to be punished? it guess that make some sense and aligns with how the rules are going
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@Kiap I think both situations could be viewed from both sides, rather than a defending team stuffing up but taking it back you could say the attacking team pressured them into it
so we're deeming the team in possession to be the team to be punished? it guess that make some sense and aligns with how the rules are going
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
so we're deeming the team in possession to be the team to be punished? it guess that make some sense and aligns with how the rules are going
Ahem. The attacking team still gets the ball back.
Plus effectively still in the attacking red zone, too ... or near as dammit ... so we're not getting too carried away with being "punished".
What I said at the top was it being a question of (a) who is awarded and (b) how much :
In this case the attack does get possession back, the thing is, should it be 5m out or around 25m out?
I just question why the attack should be entitled to repeated free shots 5m out when they fail to ground the ball.
They've flunked their attempt, the defence forced the hold up so they've earned their breathing space.
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I'm cool with anything that cuts down the number of pick and goes on the goal line, and the repeatedly set 5m scrums trying to get penalties and cards.
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
so we're deeming the team in possession to be the team to be punished? it guess that make some sense and aligns with how the rules are going
Ahem. The attacking team still gets the ball back.
Plus effectively still in the attacking red zone, too ... or near as dammit ... so we're not getting too carried away with being "punished".
What I said at the top was it being a question of (a) who is awarded and (b) how much :
In this case the attack does get possession back, the thing is, should it be 5m out or around 25m out?
I just question why the attack should be entitled to repeated free shots 5m out when they fail to ground the ball.
They've flunked their attempt, the defence forced the hold up so they've earned their breathing space.
@Kiap said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
so we're deeming the team in possession to be the team to be punished? it guess that make some sense and aligns with how the rules are going
Ahem. The attacking team still gets the ball back.
Plus effectively still in the attacking red zone, too ... or near as dammit ... so we're not getting too carried away with being "punished".
What I said at the top was it being a question of (a) who is awarded and (b) how much :
In this case the attack does get possession back, the thing is, should it be 5m out or around 25m out?
I just question why the attack should be entitled to repeated free shots 5m out when they fail to ground the ball.
They've flunked their attempt, the defence forced the hold up so they've earned their breathing space.
I would counter that by saying the attacking team has never lost the ball in a held up situation and the defending team is allowed extra leeway to not release the player or roll away once it is over the line.
IMO having the ball kicked back to the half way mark is too much of a punishment, for lack of a better word, for being held up over the line. The same “punishment” that is given when the attacker knocks on. -
The two big changes I'm interested in watching are rewarding teams for good kicks (22 - 50) which should help keep wingers slightly back.
And maintaining some semblance of a contest despite losing a player to card lottery.
FWIW I'm also coming around to @Kiap's argument.
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
The two big changes I'm interested in watching are rewarding teams for good kicks (22 - 50) which should help keep wingers slightly back.
And maintaining some semblance of a contest despite losing a player to card lottery.
FWIW I'm also coming around to @Kiap's argument.
I don’t think the 22-50 thing is in the NZ comp.
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@Kiap said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
so we're deeming the team in possession to be the team to be punished? it guess that make some sense and aligns with how the rules are going
Ahem. The attacking team still gets the ball back.
Plus effectively still in the attacking red zone, too ... or near as dammit ... so we're not getting too carried away with being "punished".
What I said at the top was it being a question of (a) who is awarded and (b) how much :
In this case the attack does get possession back, the thing is, should it be 5m out or around 25m out?
I just question why the attack should be entitled to repeated free shots 5m out when they fail to ground the ball.
They've flunked their attempt, the defence forced the hold up so they've earned their breathing space.
I would counter that by saying the attacking team has never lost the ball in a held up situation and the defending team is allowed extra leeway to not release the player or roll away once it is over the line.
IMO having the ball kicked back to the half way mark is too much of a punishment, for lack of a better word, for being held up over the line. The same “punishment” that is given when the attacker knocks on.@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I would counter that by saying the attacking team has never lost the ball in a held up situation
True.
It's still a failed score and no longer in the field of play.
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
and the defending team is allowed extra leeway to not release the player or roll away once it is over the line.
IMO having the ball kicked back to the half way mark is too much of a punishment, for lack of a better word, for being held up over the line. The same “punishment” that is given when the attacker knocks on.
Would be rare for the ball not to be run back well into the half, and to even be in a scoring position in short order.
