'Super Rugby' 2021
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@mariner4life i agree. Problem is, cutting a team won't actually fix this (as it didn't with the Force). The only way Aus will ever be able to compete on the same level as NZ is with a huge injection of cash that allows us to recoup our best players and secure our future talent.
Any talk of cutting to greatness is nonsense.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life i agree. Problem is, cutting a team won't actually fix this (as it didn't with the Force). The only way Aus will ever be able to compete on the same level as NZ is with a huge injection of cash that allows us to recoup our best players and secure our future talent.
Any talk of cutting to greatness is nonsense.
i get your point, i really do.
But the same arguments were made about expansion. More spots meant greater development, and better player retention. That never materialised. And then look a some of the off-casts that made up the Force rosters over the years. From numerous countries.
I'm not too sure about your point about AB players being better paid either. Pretty sure a Wallaby contract is worth fuck loads. I have no idea why those good young players kept leaving. Especially those locks.
There were some spectacularly bad contracts thrown around by RA though.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life i agree. Problem is, cutting a team won't actually fix this (as it didn't with the Force). The only way Aus will ever be able to compete on the same level as NZ is with a huge injection of cash that allows us to recoup our best players and secure our future talent.
Any talk of cutting to greatness is nonsense.
i get your point, i really do.
But the same arguments were made about expansion. More spots meant greater development, and better player retention. That never materialised. And then look a some of the off-casts that made up the Force rosters over the years. From numerous countries.
I'm not too sure about your point about AB players being better paid either. Pretty sure a Wallaby contract is worth fuck loads. I have no idea why those good young players kept leaving. Especially those locks.
There were some spectacularly bad contracts thrown around by RA though.
@mariner4life I think if you secure one of 10 odd RA contracts you are well paid but then it drops off dramatically.
Coleman is currently earning 900k in England. 900k for a player who shouldnt have really been wearing a test jersey the last two years.
You can't compete with that. We just do what we can to keep a semi competitive Wallabies limping along.
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@mariner4life I think if you secure one of 10 odd RA contracts you are well paid but then it drops off dramatically.
Coleman is currently earning 900k in England. 900k for a player who shouldnt have really been wearing a test jersey the last two years.
You can't compete with that. We just do what we can to keep a semi competitive Wallabies limping along.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life I think if you secure one of 10 odd RA contracts you are well paid but then it drops off dramatically.
Coleman is currently earning 900k in England. 900k for a player who shouldnt have really been wearing a test jersey the last two years.
You can't compete with that. We just do what we can to keep a semi competitive Wallabies limping along.
mate i think you are grossly over-evaluating what an AB can make in NZ. Certainly what a non-AB can make. I honestly don't know why so many of them stay given the money on offer. Japan looks like a great place to play piss easy rugby for truck loads of money.
The economic realities should have crushed us years ago, and it's a credit to the NZRU that they haven't.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life I think if you secure one of 10 odd RA contracts you are well paid but then it drops off dramatically.
Coleman is currently earning 900k in England. 900k for a player who shouldnt have really been wearing a test jersey the last two years.
You can't compete with that. We just do what we can to keep a semi competitive Wallabies limping along.
mate i think you are grossly over-evaluating what an AB can make in NZ. Certainly what a non-AB can make. I honestly don't know why so many of them stay given the money on offer. Japan looks like a great place to play piss easy rugby for truck loads of money.
The economic realities should have crushed us years ago, and it's a credit to the NZRU that they haven't.
@mariner4life well i definitely dont have any answers to that. But i think it's pretty obvious you havent suffered from a talent flight to the same extent. And you already had way more talent prior to that.
The reality is, until we can figure out how to keep our talent we'll only occasionally be on a competitive level with you guys. Cutting a team or no.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life I think if you secure one of 10 odd RA contracts you are well paid but then it drops off dramatically.
Coleman is currently earning 900k in England. 900k for a player who shouldnt have really been wearing a test jersey the last two years.
You can't compete with that. We just do what we can to keep a semi competitive Wallabies limping along.
mate i think you are grossly over-evaluating what an AB can make in NZ. Certainly what a non-AB can make. I honestly don't know why so many of them stay given the money on offer. Japan looks like a great place to play piss easy rugby for truck loads of money.
The economic realities should have crushed us years ago, and it's a credit to the NZRU that they haven't.
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life I think if you secure one of 10 odd RA contracts you are well paid but then it drops off dramatically.
Coleman is currently earning 900k in England. 900k for a player who shouldnt have really been wearing a test jersey the last two years.
You can't compete with that. We just do what we can to keep a semi competitive Wallabies limping along.
mate i think you are grossly over-evaluating what an AB can make in NZ. Certainly what a non-AB can make. I honestly don't know why so many of them stay given the money on offer. Japan looks like a great place to play piss easy rugby for truck loads of money.
The economic realities should have crushed us years ago, and it's a credit to the NZRU that they haven't.
Yeah Ozzie Super rugby players are paid higher than NZ
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@mariner4life well i definitely dont have any answers to that. But i think it's pretty obvious you havent suffered from a talent flight to the same extent. And you already had way more talent prior to that.
The reality is, until we can figure out how to keep our talent we'll only occasionally be on a competitive level with you guys. Cutting a team or no.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life well i definitely dont have any answers to that. But i think it's pretty obvious you havent suffered from a talent flight to the same extent. And you already had way more talent prior to that.
The reality is, until we can figure out how to keep our talent we'll only occasionally be on a competitive level with you guys. Cutting a team or no.
We've lost shitloads of players. We are lucky that we keep producing more to replace them, and that's where Australia need to focus.
Neither country can compete with European cash, so it whatever system needs to handle that.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life well i definitely dont have any answers to that. But i think it's pretty obvious you havent suffered from a talent flight to the same extent. And you already had way more talent prior to that.
The reality is, until we can figure out how to keep our talent we'll only occasionally be on a competitive level with you guys. Cutting a team or no.
We've lost shitloads of players. We are lucky that we keep producing more to replace them, and that's where Australia need to focus.
Neither country can compete with European cash, so it whatever system needs to handle that.
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lets also not overlook, in this crying of poverty, that even if the supposed deal for a 16 year old is a 3rd of what's being reported, it's a million dollar deal for a 16 year old.
- years. old.
That's criminal financial mismanagement, and i would leave as well if i was told to take a pay cut and then read that in the paper.
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@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
But simply saying the Australian/SA teams were shit and therefore the comp died is not true IMO. It's just one of a whole heap of reasons why Super died.
no fucking shit Barb, do you want me to list every fucking reason?
But denying the fact the Aussie teams were shit (except for one at a time) was a reason a heap turned off is blinkered. All my mates up here who were Reds fans turned it off because they were sick of sucking.
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
All my mates up here who were Reds fans turned it off because they were sick of sucking.
I well recall going to Reds games when they were dreadful and there'd be ~6,000 at Suncorp for a game against a NZ side. Half of them supporting the visitors.
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@mariner4life well i definitely dont have any answers to that. But i think it's pretty obvious you havent suffered from a talent flight to the same extent. And you already had way more talent prior to that.
The reality is, until we can figure out how to keep our talent we'll only occasionally be on a competitive level with you guys. Cutting a team or no.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life well i definitely dont have any answers to that. But i think it's pretty obvious you havent suffered from a talent flight to the same extent.
You might want to look at the 2015 RWC squad. Then there's all the fringe SR players who go OS either for more money or better prospects. The idea that player flight only affects Australia, or it's some outlier is mistaken.
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lets also not overlook, in this crying of poverty, that even if the supposed deal for a 16 year old is a 3rd of what's being reported, it's a million dollar deal for a 16 year old.
- years. old.
That's criminal financial mismanagement, and i would leave as well if i was told to take a pay cut and then read that in the paper.
@mariner4life Yeah - it seems pretty dumb to me
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life well i definitely dont have any answers to that. But i think it's pretty obvious you havent suffered from a talent flight to the same extent.
You might want to look at the 2015 RWC squad. Then there's all the fringe SR players who go OS either for more money or better prospects. The idea that player flight only affects Australia, or it's some outlier is mistaken.
@antipodean I didn't say it wasn't happening. I said it affects us far worse. Which i stand by.
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lets also not overlook, in this crying of poverty, that even if the supposed deal for a 16 year old is a 3rd of what's being reported, it's a million dollar deal for a 16 year old.
- years. old.
That's criminal financial mismanagement, and i would leave as well if i was told to take a pay cut and then read that in the paper.
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
lets also not overlook, in this crying of poverty, that even if the supposed deal for a 16 year old is a 3rd of what's being reported, it's a million dollar deal for a 16 year old.
- years. old.
That's criminal financial mismanagement, and i would leave as well if i was told to take a pay cut and then read that in the paper.
What else would you expect from the same organisation that gave Wendy and Tuqiri massive contracts? Spending millions on backs rather than investing in forwards...
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@antipodean I didn't say it wasn't happening. I said it affects us far worse. Which i stand by.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean I didn't say it wasn't happening. I said it affects us far worse. Which i stand by.
if it affects you more its only because you dont have the depth to replace those leaving, the actual numbers of players leaving would be comparable at least, and so concentrating on player retention rather than development is only going to get Aus in the same situation you've been in before, aging player that havent been overtaken looking for a retirement deal
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@antipodean I didn't say it wasn't happening. I said it affects us far worse. Which i stand by.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean I didn't say it wasn't happening. I said it affects us far worse. Which i stand by.
At the risk of citing Mark Keohane in 2017:
The South African professional system does not invest in the player as the game’s asset, which is why close to 300 South Africans play professional rugby outside of South Africa and 15 of those players represented other countries at the 2015 World Cup.New Zealand has 600 professional players off-shore and 38 played for other countries in the 2015 World Cup.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean I didn't say it wasn't happening. I said it affects us far worse. Which i stand by.
At the risk of citing Mark Keohane in 2017:
The South African professional system does not invest in the player as the game’s asset, which is why close to 300 South Africans play professional rugby outside of South Africa and 15 of those players represented other countries at the 2015 World Cup.New Zealand has 600 professional players off-shore and 38 played for other countries in the 2015 World Cup.
@antipodean It was around 60, the most by a factor of 3, NZ born players in other teams at RWC19. IIRC
Nope I remember incorrectly!
Obviously England right up there, when it is the same country at 3 others at the RWC.
I just like posting this bit of fact
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean I didn't say it wasn't happening. I said it affects us far worse. Which i stand by.
At the risk of citing Mark Keohane in 2017:
The South African professional system does not invest in the player as the game’s asset, which is why close to 300 South Africans play professional rugby outside of South Africa and 15 of those players represented other countries at the 2015 World Cup.New Zealand has 600 professional players off-shore and 38 played for other countries in the 2015 World Cup.
@antipodean Ya but as a percentage of available professional players it's not even close. You pretty much exclusively produce Rugby players as winter athletes. We already only produce a fraction of what NZ (or SA) do.
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@antipodean Ya but as a percentage of available professional players it's not even close. You pretty much exclusively produce Rugby players as winter athletes. We already only produce a fraction of what NZ (or SA) do.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean Ya but as a percentage of available professional players it's not even close. You pretty much exclusively produce Rugby players as winter athletes. We already only produce a fraction of what NZ (or SA) do.
Are you aware how many NRL players are from NZ?
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@antipodean I didn't say it wasn't happening. I said it affects us far worse. Which i stand by.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean I didn't say it wasn't happening. I said it affects us far worse. Which i stand by.
Because you cant re-supply 4 or 5 teams with the replacement talent of equal promise.
NZ loses more players, but judge they can still support 5 teams despite the churn. Hence we dont have a second Auckland team.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean Ya but as a percentage of available professional players it's not even close. You pretty much exclusively produce Rugby players as winter athletes. We already only produce a fraction of what NZ (or SA) do.
Are you aware how many NRL players are from NZ?
@antipodean Okay - so you are so prodigous at producing talent you also supply the NRL. What's your point? you still far and away eclipse us in terms of available talent. You have players ready and able to step into the vacuum when you lose say a mid tier SR level player.
We don't. That simple. Every player we lose means a drop in quality.
